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Dangerous Dog related safety for the public and environment

I am currently raising awareness of dog attacks and what laws need to be in place.I have kept dogs all my life and experience of German Shepherds down to tiny Yorkshire Terriers. All were highly trained and under good management. Safety in the home was paramount for the family and visitors.Since the influx of dangerous breeds there has been a huge rise in dog attacks and deaths of those both in the home and out in the community.My research of how best to control dogs better in focus groups and street questionnaires. I have now out completed a potential''green paper'' for Government legislation and would like to put this before all Silversurfers of the forum for feed back and suggestions.


(1) Listing 10 most dangerous breeds such as Akitas/GSD/Husky/Pitbulls/Staffordshire BT and the rest that need proper training and restrictions.


(2)Dog Licences that should cost £15.00 for dangerous and large dogs regardless of breeds and to include 'Hybrids' and large Mongrels where one breed can be defined


(3)Ear tags as in cattle that identify dangerous breeds or 'in ear marking by Vets


(4) Every dog micro chipped number added to the yearly Electoral List and including dog licence ref number


(5) Muzzle straps to be used on all dangerous dogs and those that pose danger to the public at all times.A standing fine to be issued for none-conforming.owners.of £60 and a written warning by the Council Offices responsible for safety of environment


(6)PCSO's in the community to check up on owners as they have little else in their roles which would build confidence of the public to be protected owing to bad owners.


(7)A certificate of basic training CBT through Rescue Centres who are skilled at training.The fee could range from £10 to £20 depending on large and medium dogs of the dangerous breeds and the rescue centres can benefit from the fees. Minimum training over a 8 to 10 week period or longer if the owner is struggling.Example of this was demonstrated by me in 1988.I attended a 12 week course of training my GSD where I had to travel on the bus-turn up in the rain/snow/hail and the rest.Complete obstacle course and close ear to ear commands.To complete the training period a certificate with a Rosette would encourage more people to take part and confidence to carry on with their training and a sense of pride of their dogs


(8) More Council Officers as Dog Wardens with a proper run centres and emergency numbers available for dogs on the loose and attacks by dogs.It should not just be the responsibllity of the RSPCA who have neither the funds nor enough Officers to work 24 hours to protect the public.We should see more ASPCA centres that are able to act immediately as in America.


(9)Those that behave irresponsible and their dogs that have attacked a member of the public should face serious fines and barred from keeping a dog for at least 5yrs and the dog to be confiscated.Sadly some of these dogs can not be re-homed and sadly we have to be prepared that it may be necessary for the dog to be put to sleep


(10)Lottery funding to be diverted in to more Rescue centres to be built and funded.We as the public have the right to be protected and dogs that attack need to be removed for the safety of others.


This is not a exhaustible list and amendments should be added through statistical information I welcome all thoughts and further suggestions for and against these suggestions


Created By on 12/09/2015

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Doggyvonne
12th Sep 2015 13:54:45
1
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GENERALLY I FIND THAT ANY DOG IS POTENTIALLY A HAZARD IF THEIR OWNERS HAVE THEM OFF LEAD AND ARE NOT WATCHING THEM CLOSELY AND ABLE TO CATCH THEM IN AN EMERGENCY
Response from Hawke008 made on 13th Sep 2015 17:13:01
Oh do stop shouting!
Response from Deirdre made on 14th Sep 2015 07:17:39
I agree with many of the comments. Certainly the licence. I can remember my mum paying for our dog years ago.
Sadly of course it would be the very people who shouldn't have dogs that wouldn't pay. Also payment for those with genuine hardship for example a pensioner should be deferred. An animal can make such a difference.
Yes training and yes lottery money. What a good idea.
No to the casual putting down of those poor dogs that have been abused.
Why not have more public notifications as on TV to tell people to report abuse in their area should they see it.
Also no pussyfooting about. Ban for life...
Response from Doggyvonne made on 14th Sep 2015 09:48:17
We live in relatively sedate Sidmouth with beautiful manicured and natural dog walking areas. The main problem is people who dont watch their dogs (and kids) and who are often switched off, lacking in awareness or on their mobile phones. All ages are guilty of this it isnt just young mums. My small dog is nervous and generally on a lead and if larger or exciteable dogs approach him I have to shout or wave to wake the other owner up ..they often say 'Oh my dog's OK ' or ' she'll follow me' but yes if that chilled out dog or bouncy child comes near my dog wont like it and can they gt to their loose anumal before there is a fracas? I dont want to have to carry my dog a mile to the vets or pay the vets bill if there are injuries! Older folks in
the parks have said they have been knocked over by large dogs. Owners should stay close and vigilant with their pets at all times. It isnt about the breed of dog it is about the maturity of the owner.
Response from KEITH_WL made on 25th Aug 2016 17:59:24
I hate it when poor dogs spend their entire walk time on the leash. Isn't it down largely to training, partly to the breed? I can tell our dog (a Border Collie) to sit and stay, then walk across a road. For prudence' sake I don't actually do this on the busiest roads but on rural lanes when a car approaches I'll tell her to sit then walk on until the car has passed.
Response from jeanmark made on 25th Aug 2016 19:06:10
You're lucky Keith, when my dog had her first season my husband told her to 'sit' whenever another dog approached. She then did that for the rest of her life, it use to confuse aggressive dogs!
Response from Lionel made on 25th Aug 2016 19:18:37
Well, from an 'old dog's' point of view, not good advice!
Response from jeanmark made on 25th Aug 2016 20:56:38
I agree but it worked, it was just a little embarrassing trying to explain the behaviour!
Response from Lionel made on 25th Aug 2016 22:55:39
I just knew you would get my point. Still a Norfolk gal!
ecarg
4th Jan 2020 08:55:25
0
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Dogs should be kept on the lead in public pedestrian areas ,many people do not appreciate dogs running up to them and owners should not expect that everyone wishes to pat their dog.
NDW57
3rd Jan 2020 20:29:27 (Last activity: 3rd Jan 2020 22:33:34)
1
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Oh dear. Well meaning but quite misguided in some areas. There really isn't such a thing as a dangerous breed. Its simply that so-called dangerous breeds tend to be large and/or favoured by a "certain type of person". We've all seen them. Some tattooed youth swaggering down the road with a snarling canine sporting a studded leather collar. The legislation should be Dangerous Dog Owners Act.
Ear tagging dogs? Have you never seen the tattered ears of some cattle when they've ripped theirs out - usually on feed barriers? Why inflict that on dogs. And could you imagine a chihuahua with a pair of ear tags? It'd look like Bet Lynch ! (To be fair, the ear tagging bit might be meant to apply only to large dogs). And don't even think about ear tattoos - just won't work. They wear out, the skin gets dirty and greasy.... just forget it. Stick to microchips - just make sure all appropriate authorities have access to one.
And you say large mongrels should be licensed. What's large? A certain weight? That can vary. Dog's physical size? Lets say you define above 24" at the shoulder as large. Where exactly is the shoulder? What about dogs wriggling about? What about nervous dogs?
Licensing for dogs? God help us, another money making scheme for whoever gets the job and a very unfair, expensive and tiresome burden for the dog -owning public.
My answer. Enforce the rules that are already there and strengthen where absolutely essential. Lifetime bans that actually are life for example. Hammer owners of puppy farms. Enforce the Animal Welfare Act PROPERLY. Perhaps requiring Local Authorities to be more involved in animal welfare (some elect to be so involved whilst others do not). I'd even consider removing the Dangerous Dogs Act as is - it's a badly written piece of knee-jerk legislation that at the very least needs major amendments.
Response from Lionel made on 3rd Jan 2020 22:33:34
Well said.
OhCarol62
7th Jan 2017 15:23:51
3
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Sorry dangerous owners and not dangerous breeds .... I am the proud owner of a rescued Staffie cross (looks like a pit bull) she is placid and has never exhibited any dangerous traits.

In the park however she has been attacked by a German Shepherd and a Jack Russel and d=she did not retaliate.

However my beautiful Tri Colour Collie that I bought when I was 18 was very snappy - NOT his fault but mine - I bought him from a breeder and didn't have a clue about correctly training and caring for a dog. He was well looked after and sadly died aged 16

If I knew back then what I know now his upbringing would have been very very different!
Lionel
24th Aug 2016 23:31:03 (Last activity: 26th Aug 2016 22:30:50)
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Sarne, most of your post applies to urban dogs. Dogs do not belong in an urban evnironment and nothing you may try to enforce will resolve the urban dog problem.

Let's be a little honest here, most of the people who have dogs in an urban setting are beneath the law so no amount of legislation without the most severe enforcement will have any effect whatsoever.
Response from Campolady made on 26th Aug 2016 14:47:54
What is your problem? Nothing wrong whatsoever with dogs in urban areas as long as they are walked regularly and disaplined. Here in Spain a good 65 plus percent of dog owners live in apartments and have happy well balanced dogs that are true friends.
Response from jeanmark made on 26th Aug 2016 19:03:33
Lionel, not sure what you mean by 'urban dogs' it implies that only people living in the country should own dogs?
Response from Lionel made on 26th Aug 2016 22:30:50
I'll reply privately.
celtwitch
26th Aug 2016 10:30:28 (Last activity: 26th Aug 2016 20:04:37)
1
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More people are harmed by hairdryers than dogs, and there are more people waiting 4 hours in A&E for treatment because they have fallen awkwardly while putting on underwear, than others waiting to be treated for dog bites.
None of your 'proposals' are even remotely workable, back to the drawing board Einstein!
Response from jeanmark made on 26th Aug 2016 20:04:37
I have to agree with you celtwitch. Whenever anyone is harmed by a dog it may be a tragic occurrence but there is usually a knee jerk reaction and the dog always appears to be blamed. What ever systems and processes are put in place they will rarely work when you have irresponsible people who are wiling to ignore the obvious.
Lionel
24th Aug 2016 23:26:23 (Last activity: 25th Aug 2016 22:59:34)
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I've just got to come in on this one!

There's only been three of my sixty five years when I haven't had a dog. Scotties when a kiddie and when my father returned from the merchant marine we had Staffordshire bull terriers. Since then, having first studied the breed, I've always had Collies. They've been house dogs, whilst others I've worked as sheep dogs with 2000 sheep on a North Yorkshire moorside.

The point has been heavily made on this thread about training our dogs. It's a good point, but less than half the story. One cannot train a dog to reliably go against it's basic instincts. No, we use those instincts to shape the dog to what we want or need. Therefore our choice of dog to live with for a dozen or more years (in the case of Collies maybe twenty five years) is formulated according to our perceived long term needs. So let's not expected an oriental breed, of which we know nothing, to be as amenable as a Collie.

No terrier is a good dog to have around children - they're basically killers of anything smaller than themselves. Staffordshire Bulls are perhaps to very worst family dogs, which may account for why there are so many press reports of this breed harming or killing kiddies. That's the owners fault, not the dog - wrong choice of breed. So many people follow a fashion rather than study the breeds to find one suited to their needs.

These fancy non-British breeds, well, who knows about them? Who understands their propensity for violence? Who really understands their needs and desires? Not many people I think! And by extension how many dogs are kept in a near natural environment? Not many I think, but my three Collies are - buried deep in the country. As I recall this evening, almost all violent reactions of dogs arises with the animals being kept un in urban environment!

I do not hold with dog licences, micro-chipping or any other form of registration. They serve no useful purpose whatsoever, apart from maintaining bureaucrats in employment. Nor do I hold with muzzles or doggy bags! The responsibility for a dog's actions lie exclusively with the owner. If a dog owner keeps a weird or unsuitable breed, then they must stand in the way of very harsh penalties. Penalties which bite like their dogs. After a violent event, what use is it to say, well he's registered?

None.
Response from jeanmark made on 25th Aug 2016 14:31:02
I have to say Lionel, microchipping a dog can be helpful if they are lost or when trying to trace an owner, but I agree they don't help prevent an attack. I thought doggie bags were for cleaning up after your dog and my village does provide bins to dispose of the bag. However, no one appears to clean up after their horse has ridden through the village, not even with a bucket and spade. As for muzzling - there are many children that could benefit from being muzzled in public!
Response from Lionel made on 25th Aug 2016 15:51:40
I concede that point about microchipping. There was a debate on SS a few months ago on this very subject. Several people, including myself, felt it could be the thin end of the wedge, particulary where dementia patients are concerned.

Living and working in Eire in the mid-eighties was an experience not to be missed. We would venture into a local town once a week for supplies. Early morning and late afternoon these town centres were inundated with stray dogs. There could be hundreds in a small market square. Nothing and no one was safe!

As for horses and kids ... there exists a mutal dislike between horses and I. Sadly, in this part of Suffolk there are a few stables. Herds of these beasts are ridden along our so-narrow roads one cannot get past. And the riders are so arrogant, too. But, everything may be a blessing if we look for it. I have collected heaps of horse muck and, when rotted for a year, grown the most excellent potatoes on it.

But to see the local hunt riding to hounds across fields frozen with frost is a delight. The scarlet jackets, baying of the dogs and the hunt master's bugle. Old England!

Kids ... don't get me started on twenty first century parenting! There could be an inter-generational war! But I will say this, Britain would have more hope for the future if so many kids were as well trained and self disciplined as my dogs. May I be forgiven for dreaming?
Response from KEITH_WL made on 25th Aug 2016 17:50:55
I couldn't help giggling here. Oh, the English language! Apart from the wholly reasonable use of the term "doggy bag" here, it's also used for the bag in which one takes spare food from a restaurant meal for consumption at home! 🙂
Response from Lionel made on 25th Aug 2016 22:59:34
Keith, your digestion is quite safe. Being so remote we don't buy these little plastic bags!
Hawke008
13th Sep 2015 17:11:15 (Last activity: 24th Aug 2016 21:41:48)
3
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Well the 'blame it the dog' group are all well and active here. However, any reasonable person will be well aware that there are no 'bad' dogs, only bad owners.

The media, normally the red top and tabloid papers, go out of their way to sensationalise any animal attack to satisfy the morbid curiosity of their readers. The stories are printed without any attempt to see whether there was a reason why the animal attacked. I have seen children, and adults, who thought it was great fun to torment, throw stones at and provoke dogs and then run crying that the nasty dog attacked me for no reason; is that information included in press. All animals have the right to be protected from

As a dog owner for more than 50 years, the idea of bringing back the pet license is one that I would wholeheartedly support.

With regard to most of the other points suggested by Sarne above, I suggest he looks at what sanctions the law currently has at its command. He should also ask local tax payers if they prepared to either pay increased council tax and/or lose another local service to pay for all the extra wardens and PCSO's. However, the vast majority of local authorities already have well trained teams of animal wardens, local emergency numbers and access to well established kenneling centres where stray dogs can be housed.

I would be interested in where Sarne conducted his/her 'focus groups and street questionnaires', because I haven't seen or heard of these, nor have any of my friends, colleagues and fellow dog owners.
Response from jeanmark made on 23rd Aug 2016 15:15:56
So agree with what you have said Hawke008, although there are a few breeds that are inbred to make them aggressive but again it is the people breeding them that is the problem. I had a scotty dog for 16 years but as I had no children I would never have trusted her alone with a young child because she wouldn't have understood how dangerous children can be! People forget they are animals who do not think in the way humans do and therefore can not always distinguish between friend or foe.

We had a mixed breed dog when I was a child who protected me from everyone, even my parents, but my father also taught us the importance of respecting her as a dog not as a human (even though I used to dress her up in dolls clothes). When I was attacked by our neighbours german shepherd, my father made it clear the dog wasn't at fault as I had no right going to look at her puppies unaccompanied. The dog was doing what any mother would do in protecting her young, she never once attacked anyone else. Today, only the attack would be reported (I was hospitalised) not the circumstances in which the attack occurred. But then are we not a 'blame' culture?
Response from KEITH_WL made on 24th Aug 2016 19:17:20
You've hit on another thing I'm always going on about, Jeanmark - the blame culture. I believe you're right in saying that it's something that has developed in our lifetime rather than always being there.

A saying of Martin Luther's that I often quote is that humans are such, that if a man falls off his horse on the left-hand side, then he'll make certain next time to fall off on the right. So what could the left-hand side culture of our youth have been?

(With perhaps an apology from me for equating your youth with my somewhat earlier one :-} I'm a wartime child who was very close to his grandparents, and their childhood was in Queen Victoria's reign.)
Response from jeanmark made on 24th Aug 2016 19:46:04
Glad I'm not the only one and the State appear to be leaders in trying to find a scapegoat (it's never their fault). Why do people always believe someone has to be to blame when things do not go to plan? I appreciate that in some circumstances that is the case but when I was a child if I tripped on the pavement my mother didn't blame the council because the pavement wasn't perfect, she just told me to look where I was running! Tom Daley didn't win gold and the newsreader asked the expert what went wrong, his answer - nothing went wrong Tom just didn't perform as well has he had the day before. That was something I understood and applauded the answer.

Don't worry Keith, I have no hang ups about my age even my great-niece thought I was older than her gran who is actually the older by 3 years! At least I look as if I have lived......
Response from KEITH_WL made on 24th Aug 2016 20:07:25
LOL! Our second daughter coined the term "The Crumblies" several years ago to refer to us. She knew that we wouldn't take offence and I treasure that.

You might well know about Boris Becker's response when a reporter interviewed him expressing terms of high tragedy after a defeat at Wimbledon. It's akin to the Tom Daley report.
Response from jeanmark made on 24th Aug 2016 20:38:51
My step-daughter gave me a book called 'Wrinklies - Big Book of Jokes' for my last birthday which makes light of getting older. She also knew I would find it funny and wouldn't take offence. It certainly cheers you up if feeling a little low.

My husband refers to himself as a wrinkly ninja!
Response from KEITH_WL made on 24th Aug 2016 21:41:48
I like it. My wife, 3½ years older than I, refers to me as her toy boy.

I must look out for the book.
Campolady
23rd Aug 2016 10:46:58
1
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Very few dogs born vicious or dangerous, just ignorance usually on the part of the owners by buying or rescueing a high energy strong willed breed with little or no knowledge of how to train, excersise or control which usually ends in disaster for owner and dog. A very good program to watch on TV regarding this subject is the Mexican Cessa Milan referred to in the States as the " Dog Whisperer ". He teaches to use calm positive energy to gain respect and control. Anger only agrivates the situation. My pack, Jack Russel, German Shepherd and Shar Pei cross Labrador all run with the horses, goats etc.,
smudger15
12th Sep 2015 17:30:28
0
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why pussy foot around people keeping dangerous dogs. Ban all dangerous breeds or crosses from being kept as pets. one death or maiming is one too many.

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