Lack of interest?
Watch this postI was a Sagazone member for some time and I enjoyed some lively debates with fellow members, there was always something going on and I looked forward to logging in each day. Sadly, Sagazone has closed due to some on-line bullying by a few unpleasant people. I was myself singled out for some horrible insults by an Australian woman, who threatened to travel to the UK to 'do me in!' But, it was mostly a supportive community. I wish I could say the same for Silversurfers, but, sadly I can't. I have tried to contribute and I have started several topics which have been all but completely ignored. Even my 'God is Dead' topic attracted next to no 'spirited' response. I thought that the 'holy Joe's' among us would have fired a salvo of angry affirmations of their faith at me, and a heartfelt insistence that god is very much alive and living in Grimsby, or some other place. But, no, almost nothing. I can only conclude that most of you have opted for early advanced old age and have lost interest in life, is this what happens when we are in god's waiting room? Come back at me, attack me, insult me, but don't just sit there, let's have a it of fun. Over to you...
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We don't tolerate swearing, and reserve the right to remove any posts which we feel may offend others... let's keep it friendly!
As for your topic which you mentioned...''God Is Dead''....however...Well, it basically comes down to each individual`s perception of life...and (possible) life after death...But, i don`t believe that you can actually claim that with anything like affirmation, just as i wouldn`t be able to claim that He is very much alive and well, and living, not in Grimsby, perhaps, but somewhere out there in the ''Void'', with any justification. That`s where the ''faith'' part of it comes into play.
Anyway, a professed non belief in God is now very questionable, especially after Professor Dawkins has already expressed certain doubts in what HE himself believes in.
Maybe a survey should be attempted...to try and ascertain just how many people who began by having a profound belief in a Supreme Deity, then, for whatever reason, stopped having that belief. Then, compare it with the number of respondents who were non believers to begin with. But, then, found reason to begin believing. It would be interesting, i think.
And, as far as people`s attitudes go, for the one who has a genuine belief in God...they would tend to have only a certain kind of sadness for the ones who boldly vow that there is no God, rather than actually attack, or insult them. Proselytizing doesn`t normally come into it.
Anyway, if you are quite comfortable with your non belief....then, it wouldn`t be appropriate for others to criticize. It`s all about free will, after all.
P.S. Love that part about the Australian woman. She may well be the same one whom i`m living next door to....!!
Keith
Keith
If an argument is presented in what seems to me an immoderate way then personally I feel pressurised and I know anyway from research findings that raised emotion is destructive to clear thought. There would be little gain from engaging in argument.
A quiet discussion, preferably one-to-one (I am not a public debater), is more my style.
Keith
Your own comment 'Both writers do a pretty good job of dismantling all religions' is of course just an opinion. Also the very title of the first book gives me little confidence in its objectivity.
Keith
It occurs to me to ask if you in turn plan to read or have read some of the books that oppose your views, in particular the ones in response to Dawkins' book and also to Stephen Hawking's The Grand Design (with Leonard Mlodinow).
Keith
A book you didn't mention that is relevant to the discussion is The Grand Design and the library is getting it in for me. I have a related book - God and Stephen Hawking by Prof. J. C. Lennox.
Keith
I have been reading SAGA magazine for years and became a life member in 1960, nineteen sixty , they invited me to join sagazone a few years ago, and it was disbanded not for bullying but because it was not making enough profit through advertising, I then went on to -- My Next Circle -- and that was disbanded for the very same reason, not enough revenue.
Unfortunatley Silversurfers is going down the same avenue, it is not about open bullying, but hidden bullying, I often feel that a lot of OLD people have a attitude of gimmy, gimmy, gimmy and if you do not agree with me you are bullying me.
I will stick in there because I am not as thin skinned as some others and can take the real knocks of life even if it means telling the truth.
Keith
I also think with the Christian Faith most of the British don't really think about it at all, apart from weddings and funerals where we just go through the motions.
But the Muslim faith is a whole new ball game, they are something else and should stay in Muslim countries, Islam does not gel with western Christianity.
I have just joined so am not sure whether anyone will read this. I will send it and see what happens. Do I send it privately to you or to the general membership? No doubt I will find out soon.
Be interesting to hear the thoughts of celtwitch as well.
I have managed quite well without even the slightest belief in a god for the past 68 years, and i doubt that I will be having a late life epiphany any time soon.
I have always regarded the religious as weak willed sheep who have been indoctrinated from childhood into believing in the preposterous. I could perhaps understand their piety if there was even one scrap of evidence to support the belief in a god. But, there is none.
But, I wonder what might be the 'belief' that does not require one to be 'religious?'
I'm neither religious or non-religious (I sit on the fence) but I do consider a person has the right to believe in a God without being ridiculed or made to feel they need to apologise. I've seen many people manage the 'impossible' because they believe in a God just as I've seen many people manage the 'impossible' even though they have no religious belief. I don't consider either was right or wrong.
Have I been brainwashed?
Are you 'brainwashed?' Probably not, as you claim to be a fence sitter, and such people are unable to make up their minds.
My mum always voted Liberal, although she was politically ignorant, she did so because they were, to her, the 'middle' party and a safer bet than nailing her colours to the mast of either of the two main parties.
I think it's a good idea to make your mind up, one way or the other, but many people never do.
A friend from the past said that she believed in 'something' but was unable to explain what she meant. Try googling 'Pascal's Wager.'
What's wrong in being a fence sitter, I reserve the right to change my mind at the last minute I'm a woman! What I don't know is, is there a level between Heaven and Hell because I'm sure that's where I should be, my husband, the atheist, tells me it doesn't matter as Heaven and Hell don't exist?
Thanks for 'Pascal's Wager' I hadn't heard of it and found it interesting to read, as I do discussions with you.
I wonder what kind of benevolent god would condemn 'sinners' to such a fate? If 'he' loves us, as the Jesus freaks keep telling us, would god do that to us? I don't think so.
We would surely struggle to find better Christians than the horribly persecuted Syrian Christians, yet god has done nothing to save them from the IS barbarians, even though they have been praying their hearts out. Where is god when he is needed?
Get off that fence, or you will end up with splinters in your bum!
1 if you didn't have a 'religious upbringing' then how did you come by it, a car boot sale, a special offer in Tesco, or perhaps you 'found religion' while serving time in Holloway?
2 If god is truly omniscient, omnipotent and omnipresent, then why doesn't he intervene in order to save the very religious Christian and Yazedi people in Syria. If he can create a universe just by willing it into existence, surely a bit of compassion for his devotees should be easy.
Such an all powerful god could turn the IS knives to paper, or render their weapons useless, couldn't he? But, he doesn't, I wonder why, could it be because he just isn't there?
1 You are a funny guy! To be honest I can't remember how I started believing. Maybe it was 'built in' before I was born? (See, I can be funny as well)
2 I understand were you're coming from, it is very hard to comprehend why God lets these things happen. This might sound very simplistic and naive to you, but when you've had your children didn't you let them do something that wasn't good for them to teach them a lesson they wouldn't have learned otherwise and that profited them in the end?
The world is getting worse (you've only pointed out a couple of things) and I believe that the time will come when God WILL intervene and everyone will understand that we can't live in total peace and happiness without him.
I don't have children but do you have to have a christian belief to teach your children a lesson in life? My stepdaughter is an atheist very much on the lines of celtwitch but she has taught her oldest daughter good lessons in life without reverting to religion to achieve this. My youngest step-granddaughter is a special needs child and doesn't know the concept of religion but does understand what it means to be loved.
I do have to agree that many wars have been caused in the name of religion but have been started by man, however, with so many different religions I'm not sure which God would need to intervene!
They say things like, 'god knows this is happening and one day he WILL stop it.' That is little use to people who are being chopped into pieces by savages.
If god is so powerful, and if he 'loves' us, as the religious freaks keep telling us, he could so easily bring a halt to the carnage. The fact that he doesn't must mean that he doesn't exist.
It's been 2,000 years since he was, allegedly, responsible for the 10 commandments, all of the other scripture is written by 1st century men, and is therefore unreliable.
On the subject of the 10 commandments, why do you think god was so obsessed with 'coveting?' 'Thou shalt not covet thy neighbours ox, nor his ass' etc. What is that all about?
For such an all powerful deity, the commandments are rather disappointing, don't you think?
PS my name is Laura, and I'm not a real witch!
You are right there are many religions but there is only one God,
Hi Laura (didn't think you were a real witch). I thought you might not like the simplistic comparison. Because God doesn't intervene at the moment does that really mean that he doesn't exist? Following is one of of Albert Einstein's quotes , who definitely wasn't a 'religious freak':
“The more I study science, the more I believe in God.”
On the subject of the 10 commandments - they were written for our protection I'm sure. What happens when you covet (or want) something you can't have? The green-eyed monster takes over and gone is the peacefulness that we might have felt. Therefore - no - I don't think that the commandments are disappointing.
P.S. since you've introduced yourself I'll return the favour - my name is Gisela
Incidentally, I'm called Jean.
On the subject of covetousness, or envy, I think it's a perfectly normal human emotion. How many of us have looked at a young and beautiful female dancer, singer, or actress and thought to ourselves, 'I would kill for a figure like hers?' Ergo, envy is normal and natural, so why did his nibs get hung up on coveting oxen, asses and menservants? My word, could god be gay?
I would counter the 3 wise monkeys analogy with, 'all that it takes for evil to triumph is for good men, and monkeys, to do nothing.'
Not seeing, hearing or speaking is never a good idea, unless you are a Carmelite nun!
Happy weekend everyone, x
I don't think God is gay, why create woman as the only means of procreation, maybe asexual?
Has that just broken the third commandment?