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Lack of interest?

I was a Sagazone member for some time and I enjoyed some lively debates with fellow members, there was always something going on and I looked forward to logging in each day. Sadly, Sagazone has closed due to some on-line bullying by a few unpleasant people. I was myself singled out for some horrible insults by an Australian woman, who threatened to travel to the UK to 'do me in!' But, it was mostly a supportive community. I wish I could say the same for Silversurfers, but, sadly I can't. I have tried to contribute and I have started several topics which have been all but completely ignored. Even my 'God is Dead' topic attracted next to no 'spirited' response. I thought that the 'holy Joe's' among us would have fired a salvo of angry affirmations of their faith at me, and a heartfelt insistence that god is very much alive and living in Grimsby, or some other place. But, no, almost nothing. I can only conclude that most of you have opted for early advanced old age and have lost interest in life, is this what happens when we are in god's waiting room? Come back at me, attack me, insult me, but don't just sit there, let's have a it of fun. Over to you...


Created By on 23/04/2016

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[deleted]
12th May 2018 09:02:04 (Last activity: 12th May 2018 12:55:55)
0
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[deleted]
Response from jeanmark made on 12th May 2018 12:55:55
How sad you feel like that Myklebust, maybe if you look through the whole site you will find there are some good conversations and debates going on. It is just a matter of looking for things that interest you, like most of us have done.
Lindy May
7th Dec 2016 23:50:52 (Last activity: 8th Dec 2016 23:50:50)
2
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Having just joined today I have been having a look through the forums and it strikes me that your aim is to stir up emotions rather than have a proper intellectual debate. You say this yourself - you threw out an opinion and were disappointed that you didn't get the angry reaction you expected. I dare say that others can see through this too and the lack of response is not due to lack of interest but more to do with being unwilling to engage in immature provocation preferring instead to engage in some grown up debate.
Response from ecarg made on 8th Dec 2016 11:19:09
\welcome Lindy May ,I think you are spot on with your assessment ,I now know not to raise to the bait and comment very infrequently now,but continue to read hoping for an interesting change in topic to appear . Probably should suggest something but nothing springs to mind at the moment !
Response from Lindy May made on 8th Dec 2016 23:50:50
Thank you for your comments Little Minx and ecarg Having looked further through the site I see there are some good conversations and debates going on. Its just unfortunate that on every site you get a few people who just love stirring things up which we can all do without. Bu there certainly seems to be plenty of friendly people here
celtwitch Original Poster
27th Apr 2016 10:21:08 (Last activity: 8th Dec 2016 11:31:57)
-2
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I rest my case!
Response from Silversurfers Editor made on 27th Apr 2016 10:39:27
Hi celtwitch ... we seem to be having some technical issues with emails going to our members when they leave a comment in the Forum ... please can you check your emails and let me know if you got one about this reply to you ... thanks Sally 🙂
Response from beneDictus made on 8th Dec 2016 11:31:57
Hi..CW...don`t rest this case. it`s important to keep it alive, and have it out in the open...!!
beneDictus
8th Dec 2016 11:26:09
0
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Now...THAT was a very interesting article, which i quite enjoyed reading. And, by the sound of it, i think that i would have quite enjoyed Sagazone for its invigorating style of debate. So, it seems a great pity that it chose to yield to the bullies, and debunkers...and other disreputable types. I, personally, would have opted to ''carry on regardless''...What you have said, though, rings true, with regard to the general lack of response. Obviously, something to do with the age of apathy, the symptoms of which have become all too apparent these days.
As for your topic which you mentioned...''God Is Dead''....however...Well, it basically comes down to each individual`s perception of life...and (possible) life after death...But, i don`t believe that you can actually claim that with anything like affirmation, just as i wouldn`t be able to claim that He is very much alive and well, and living, not in Grimsby, perhaps, but somewhere out there in the ''Void'', with any justification. That`s where the ''faith'' part of it comes into play.
Anyway, a professed non belief in God is now very questionable, especially after Professor Dawkins has already expressed certain doubts in what HE himself believes in.
Maybe a survey should be attempted...to try and ascertain just how many people who began by having a profound belief in a Supreme Deity, then, for whatever reason, stopped having that belief. Then, compare it with the number of respondents who were non believers to begin with. But, then, found reason to begin believing. It would be interesting, i think.
And, as far as people`s attitudes go, for the one who has a genuine belief in God...they would tend to have only a certain kind of sadness for the ones who boldly vow that there is no God, rather than actually attack, or insult them. Proselytizing doesn`t normally come into it.
Anyway, if you are quite comfortable with your non belief....then, it wouldn`t be appropriate for others to criticize. It`s all about free will, after all.
P.S. Love that part about the Australian woman. She may well be the same one whom i`m living next door to....!!
KEITH_WL
11th Oct 2016 15:40:00 (Last activity: 16th Oct 2016 22:50:27)
0
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Follow-up: I had never heard of Sagazone but have just looked it up. Now I'm confused. Sometimes closed networks reopen, not always with the same name. My first hit said: "saga zone - General Chat - Boards - Genes Reunited ". Is Genes Reunited a revival of Sagazone?

Keith
Response from KEITH_WL made on 16th Oct 2016 22:50:27
Thanks for the information, Dollie, and I apologise for the delay in replying. I used to be on Friends Reunited and am surprised that I hadn't realised that it has closed.

Keith
KEITH_WL
11th Oct 2016 15:15:48 (Last activity: 13th Oct 2016 23:34:31)
3
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Surely there have been several responses to your various posts on religion, or most of them. The number and frequency of these posts raises a question. Many atheists, on coming to the conclusion that there is no God, are content to drop the subject. Others like Richard Dawkins show what I can only call religious zeal in trying to convert others to their point of view and and frequently like Dawkins they go over the top and pepper their arguments with sneers. (I have read The God Delusion and also Alister McGrath's response The Dawkins Delusion.)

If an argument is presented in what seems to me an immoderate way then personally I feel pressurised and I know anyway from research findings that raised emotion is destructive to clear thought. There would be little gain from engaging in argument.

A quiet discussion, preferably one-to-one (I am not a public debater), is more my style.

Keith
Response from happystar made on 12th Oct 2016 11:25:47
You might have a look at JP Tate's 'All God Worshipers Are Mad' and Sam Harris' 'Letter To A Christian Nation.' Both writers do a pretty good job of dismantling all religions.
Response from KEITH_WL made on 12th Oct 2016 14:55:47
I'll take note and probably read them. I intend to get back to you but it won't be soon.

Your own comment 'Both writers do a pretty good job of dismantling all religions' is of course just an opinion. Also the very title of the first book gives me little confidence in its objectivity.

Keith
Response from happystar made on 12th Oct 2016 15:37:46
You may find that it's very objective.
Response from KEITH_WL made on 12th Oct 2016 16:12:41
Then why the provocative title? Note my comment "If an argument is presented in what seems to me an immoderate way".

It occurs to me to ask if you in turn plan to read or have read some of the books that oppose your views, in particular the ones in response to Dawkins' book and also to Stephen Hawking's The Grand Design (with Leonard Mlodinow).

Keith
Response from KEITH_WL made on 13th Oct 2016 23:34:31
Today I attempted to follow up HappyStar's suggestion of reading J P Tate's 'All God Worshipers Are Mad' and Sam Harris' 'Letter To A Christian Nation.' by enquiring at the local library. One wasn't on the records, the other had been but as with many other books had been removed - time-expired or whatever. Both are available on Amazon but do I want to buy books that I shall read only once - I'm trying to declutter?

A book you didn't mention that is relevant to the discussion is The Grand Design and the library is getting it in for me. I have a related book - God and Stephen Hawking by Prof. J. C. Lennox.

Keith
ArchieUK
12th Oct 2016 08:32:43 (Last activity: 12th Oct 2016 14:48:36)
2
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I too am a little confused here,
I have been reading SAGA magazine for years and became a life member in 1960, nineteen sixty , they invited me to join sagazone a few years ago, and it was disbanded not for bullying but because it was not making enough profit through advertising, I then went on to -- My Next Circle -- and that was disbanded for the very same reason, not enough revenue.
Unfortunatley Silversurfers is going down the same avenue, it is not about open bullying, but hidden bullying, I often feel that a lot of OLD people have a attitude of gimmy, gimmy, gimmy and if you do not agree with me you are bullying me.
I will stick in there because I am not as thin skinned as some others and can take the real knocks of life even if it means telling the truth.
Response from KEITH_WL made on 12th Oct 2016 14:48:36
Very perceptive comments about the written word, Dollie. It's also true that the online written word is more immediate, perhaps less thought through, than the traditional letter. With the spoken word there's a response at once that gives a chance to retract. The letter is more carefully prepared. Perhaps online communication falls between two stools

Keith
MorrisandDoris
20th Jun 2016 23:08:41 (Last activity: 12th Oct 2016 11:30:38)
1
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Religion is an emotive subject to discuss with certain peoples faiths and probably best left alone in my opinion but my personal view is that people like to think there's an heaven and you get to meet all your friends and family again when you cross over.
I also think with the Christian Faith most of the British don't really think about it at all, apart from weddings and funerals where we just go through the motions.
But the Muslim faith is a whole new ball game, they are something else and should stay in Muslim countries, Islam does not gel with western Christianity.
Response from happystar made on 12th Oct 2016 11:30:38
" people like to think there's a heaven and you get to meet all your friends and family again when you cross over." I wonder how likely that is, and what do you mean by 'cross over?'
Biffobear
25th Apr 2016 17:26:43 (Last activity: 8th Aug 2016 18:30:26)
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Ha ha! Reminds me of the Monty Python sketch when Palin paid Cleese to argue with him at so much a minuet. It would seem that site attracted and got what it deserved by the sound of it
Response from Alan247 made on 8th Aug 2016 18:30:26
Or, maybe people are on Buzz50
belton
25th Apr 2016 10:13:34 (Last activity: 20th May 2016 18:32:04)
0
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Hello there, you really interest me. Your God is Dead piece didn't draw much attention because, I think, most religious people are hesitant about discussing their views because they know how flimsy they are. Their ideas cannot stand up to questioning so they shy away. I assume that you are an atheist (am I right), and that is another thing. Several people tell me they are not religious but seem frightened to admit that, therefore, they are atheists.
I have just joined so am not sure whether anyone will read this. I will send it and see what happens. Do I send it privately to you or to the general membership? No doubt I will find out soon.
Response from jeanmark made on 17th May 2016 13:32:39
Not necessarily becton, they may be agnostic: an agnostic is one who believes it impossible to know anything about God or about the creation of the universe and refrains from commitment to any religious doctrine. An atheist is one who denies the existence of a deity or of divine beings. It is possible to have a belief but not consider yourself religious.

Be interesting to hear the thoughts of celtwitch as well.
Response from celtwitch Original Poster made on 17th May 2016 17:06:54
Atheism is the lack of belief in gods, or the absence of theism, and atheists do not go around denying the existence of a god, they have more important things to do, they simply get on with life, remarkably unencumbered by the unverified belief that some super deity from another dimension 'created' the universe and everything in it. Such a belief is a huge ask, and only the brainwashed could fall for the deception.
I have managed quite well without even the slightest belief in a god for the past 68 years, and i doubt that I will be having a late life epiphany any time soon.
I have always regarded the religious as weak willed sheep who have been indoctrinated from childhood into believing in the preposterous. I could perhaps understand their piety if there was even one scrap of evidence to support the belief in a god. But, there is none.
But, I wonder what might be the 'belief' that does not require one to be 'religious?'
Response from jeanmark made on 18th May 2016 14:22:33
Trust or confidence in something or someone - I had the belief that my parents would love and protect me, that wasn't from a religious perspective and it may have been a mis-guided belief.

I'm neither religious or non-religious (I sit on the fence) but I do consider a person has the right to believe in a God without being ridiculed or made to feel they need to apologise. I've seen many people manage the 'impossible' because they believe in a God just as I've seen many people manage the 'impossible' even though they have no religious belief. I don't consider either was right or wrong.

Have I been brainwashed?
Response from celtwitch Original Poster made on 18th May 2016 16:17:55
Do you want to give an example of the 'impossible' being achieved through a belief in god?
Are you 'brainwashed?' Probably not, as you claim to be a fence sitter, and such people are unable to make up their minds.
My mum always voted Liberal, although she was politically ignorant, she did so because they were, to her, the 'middle' party and a safer bet than nailing her colours to the mast of either of the two main parties.
I think it's a good idea to make your mind up, one way or the other, but many people never do.
A friend from the past said that she believed in 'something' but was unable to explain what she meant. Try googling 'Pascal's Wager.'
Response from jeanmark made on 18th May 2016 18:49:33
Following the death of her 4th child ( all aged between 6 and 10 years ) a mother being comforted by her belief they were in heaven and sitting with God. The young man being diagnosed with a terminal illness believing he was privileged to die aged 32 because that was the age Jesus died. I could go on but you may not perceive these as 'impossible' situations. My personal beliefs in such situations were irrelevant, their beliefs were what mattered.

What's wrong in being a fence sitter, I reserve the right to change my mind at the last minute I'm a woman! What I don't know is, is there a level between Heaven and Hell because I'm sure that's where I should be, my husband, the atheist, tells me it doesn't matter as Heaven and Hell don't exist?

Thanks for 'Pascal's Wager' I hadn't heard of it and found it interesting to read, as I do discussions with you.
Response from celtwitch Original Poster made on 19th May 2016 19:43:45
I have to agree with your Mr Man, the idea of heaven and hell has always seemed preposterous to me, the belief that if we are good we will spend eternity with god, but if we are naughty the fires of hell await us.
I wonder what kind of benevolent god would condemn 'sinners' to such a fate? If 'he' loves us, as the Jesus freaks keep telling us, would god do that to us? I don't think so.
We would surely struggle to find better Christians than the horribly persecuted Syrian Christians, yet god has done nothing to save them from the IS barbarians, even though they have been praying their hearts out. Where is god when he is needed?
Get off that fence, or you will end up with splinters in your bum!
Response from jeanmark made on 19th May 2016 20:47:57
Nah, I feel comfortable on the fence and my bum is tough having sat on the fence for so long! I won't argue with your comments about heaven and hell as I thought He was an all forgiving God.
Response from Gigi55 made on 20th May 2016 09:43:49
Hi, I'm a newbie here and found this discussion very interesting. celtwitch you call religious people 'brainwashed'. I never had a religious upbringing but always believed in God. No matter what life throws at me or what happens in this world I never blame God for it. Humans are the ones that make choices for good or evil. By the way I don't believe in organized religion.
Response from celtwitch Original Poster made on 20th May 2016 12:04:32
Hello Gigi55 and welcome to Silversurfers. You raise a couple of interesting points.
1 if you didn't have a 'religious upbringing' then how did you come by it, a car boot sale, a special offer in Tesco, or perhaps you 'found religion' while serving time in Holloway?
2 If god is truly omniscient, omnipotent and omnipresent, then why doesn't he intervene in order to save the very religious Christian and Yazedi people in Syria. If he can create a universe just by willing it into existence, surely a bit of compassion for his devotees should be easy.
Such an all powerful god could turn the IS knives to paper, or render their weapons useless, couldn't he? But, he doesn't, I wonder why, could it be because he just isn't there?
Response from Gigi55 made on 20th May 2016 12:59:54
Hi celtwitch, thank you for the welcome. I was very (but pleasantly) surprised to receive such a quick reply. Let me answer your raised points how I see it:

1 You are a funny guy! To be honest I can't remember how I started believing. Maybe it was 'built in' before I was born? (See, I can be funny as well)

2 I understand were you're coming from, it is very hard to comprehend why God lets these things happen. This might sound very simplistic and naive to you, but when you've had your children didn't you let them do something that wasn't good for them to teach them a lesson they wouldn't have learned otherwise and that profited them in the end?
The world is getting worse (you've only pointed out a couple of things) and I believe that the time will come when God WILL intervene and everyone will understand that we can't live in total peace and happiness without him.
Response from Gigi55 made on 20th May 2016 13:19:45
Sorry celtwitch, I called you guy, but obviously you must be female going by your chosen name (hopefully I didn't get that wrong, lol)
Response from jeanmark made on 20th May 2016 14:07:32
Welcome Gigi55 and glad you've joined the conversation. You will note I sit comfortably on the fence with regard to Christianity but have to admit celtwitch makes some good points.

I don't have children but do you have to have a christian belief to teach your children a lesson in life? My stepdaughter is an atheist very much on the lines of celtwitch but she has taught her oldest daughter good lessons in life without reverting to religion to achieve this. My youngest step-granddaughter is a special needs child and doesn't know the concept of religion but does understand what it means to be loved.

I do have to agree that many wars have been caused in the name of religion but have been started by man, however, with so many different religions I'm not sure which God would need to intervene!
Response from celtwitch Original Poster made on 20th May 2016 14:07:48
I think that the comparison between the inquisitive child putting his fingers into an electrical socket and god allowing the disgusting murderous barbarians of IS to behead, rape, burn and drown innocent people is a bit too primary school logic for my liking. But, then the religious people among us often struggle for an explanation whenever god's intervention could have saved the lives of innocents.
They say things like, 'god knows this is happening and one day he WILL stop it.' That is little use to people who are being chopped into pieces by savages.
If god is so powerful, and if he 'loves' us, as the religious freaks keep telling us, he could so easily bring a halt to the carnage. The fact that he doesn't must mean that he doesn't exist.
It's been 2,000 years since he was, allegedly, responsible for the 10 commandments, all of the other scripture is written by 1st century men, and is therefore unreliable.
On the subject of the 10 commandments, why do you think god was so obsessed with 'coveting?' 'Thou shalt not covet thy neighbours ox, nor his ass' etc. What is that all about?
For such an all powerful deity, the commandments are rather disappointing, don't you think?

PS my name is Laura, and I'm not a real witch!
Response from jeanmark made on 20th May 2016 14:56:01
Hi Laura not a real witch, I have to agree with your sentiment about God intervening at some point doesn't help those being harmed. As for the the subject of the 10 commandments I think it's supposed to help people live a better life now and please God forever (some would say keep the moral high ground). I have to say my husband has never coveted our neighbours ass, well he hasn't admitted to it anyway. I think the last two actual say "you shall not bear false witness against your neighbour" and "you shall not covet" but not coveting your neighbours ass sounds better!
Response from Gigi55 made on 20th May 2016 15:08:28
Hi jeanmark and thank you for the welcome. I will respond to you first. Of course you don't have to have a religious belief to teach your children lessons in life. I was merely making a comparison between God, as our father, and ourselves how we teach our children.
You are right there are many religions but there is only one God,

Hi Laura (didn't think you were a real witch). I thought you might not like the simplistic comparison. Because God doesn't intervene at the moment does that really mean that he doesn't exist? Following is one of of Albert Einstein's quotes , who definitely wasn't a 'religious freak':

“The more I study science, the more I believe in God.”

On the subject of the 10 commandments - they were written for our protection I'm sure. What happens when you covet (or want) something you can't have? The green-eyed monster takes over and gone is the peacefulness that we might have felt. Therefore - no - I don't think that the commandments are disappointing.

P.S. since you've introduced yourself I'll return the favour - my name is Gisela
Response from jeanmark made on 20th May 2016 15:24:22
Well, I think we should all agree one believes in God, one does not and one continues to sit on the fence. Does that makes us the three (un)-wise monkeys?

Incidentally, I'm called Jean.
Response from Gigi55 made on 20th May 2016 15:42:18
It was nice to read your opinions Jean, if you don't want to discuss them anymore. Hopefully we'll meet on another topic! Regarding the three (un)-wise monkeys maybe one will put it's hands over it's eyes, the other one will put it's hands over it's ears and the third one will put it's hands over it's mouth.
Response from celtwitch Original Poster made on 20th May 2016 16:00:41
Who says there is 'only one god' and what evidence is there to back that up? The muslims refer to Allah (the Arabic word for god) as the 'one true god' which rather relegates the gods of other religions to the status of false gods, doesn't it?
On the subject of covetousness, or envy, I think it's a perfectly normal human emotion. How many of us have looked at a young and beautiful female dancer, singer, or actress and thought to ourselves, 'I would kill for a figure like hers?' Ergo, envy is normal and natural, so why did his nibs get hung up on coveting oxen, asses and menservants? My word, could god be gay?
I would counter the 3 wise monkeys analogy with, 'all that it takes for evil to triumph is for good men, and monkeys, to do nothing.'
Not seeing, hearing or speaking is never a good idea, unless you are a Carmelite nun!
Happy weekend everyone, x
Response from jeanmark made on 20th May 2016 16:12:55
Amen to that but seeing, hearing and not speaking is sometimes the best option.

I don't think God is gay, why create woman as the only means of procreation, maybe asexual?

Has that just broken the third commandment?
Response from Gigi55 made on 20th May 2016 16:32:07
I just left a comment on English Grammar and then realised that I've made a grammatical mistake in my last comment, lol. It was meant to be its and not it's.
Response from jeanmark made on 20th May 2016 18:32:04
Don't worry, I read the comment but didn't pick up on the grammar I was more interested in the content.
Marley444
27th Apr 2016 11:02:23
0
Thanks for voting!
Hi celtwitch ... I seem to find there is a lot of banter going on some of the Speakers Corner pages, especially the one about the EU and also the junior doctor strikes. I am also very much into their facebook page too ... loads going on there - maybe take a look? I have made some really good new friends recently!

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