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'Cut foreign aid, and use all the monies saved to help the NHS'

Those of you who have been reading the forum relating to NHS funding have seen my ideas vis á vis the use of the foreign aid budget. I am organising an e-mail petition to Parliament, which will read as follows:- “Cut foreign aid, and use all the monies saved to help the NHS, It is obvious that the NHS requires more financial help. This extra financial help could come from cutting the foreign aid budget.” I need the endorsement of five people so that my petition can be published: thus enabling people to vote in its favour. I believe that if I can get 100,000 signatories a debate can be forced in Parliament. Please click this link to sign the petition. https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/177775/sponsors/Tay3xAPncQp8WJo6w I have obtained the site moderators permission to publicise my petition. I have been helped by Lionel, who confirms he will be one of the five signatories the petition requires. Should you agree please send your endorsement to the above address. Many thanks.


Created By on 04/02/2017

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cloudless13
4th Feb 2017 18:59:26
2
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OOOO OOOOO OOOOOOOOOOO I wish I had said that.... do people understand that some countries we send aid to don't want it... or that countries we send in millions to, it never gets to the people it was intended, its robbed by the governments of that country. That so much administration is needed which takes its share out of the pot..... some of these countries could look after their own people, yet don't because they say good old England will do it for us.... Most of the funds are not used in the right way even when they get to the target sent to....

Our dear country is no longer able to keep looking after everyone else, it now has people here who need our help, its time to put England first, and then if we have excess funds help other countries....
Response from jeanmark made on 4th Feb 2017 19:20:53
Well cloudless13, I hope you mean the UK rather than just England but I do agree with your sentiments.
[deleted]
7th Feb 2017 09:48:50 (Last activity: 10th Feb 2017 10:47:49)
0
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[deleted]
Response from jeanmark made on 7th Feb 2017 18:44:53
Parliament will respond to petitions when they reach a given number of signatures so they are worth supporting with your signature. They have just responded to two I had signed, that may not mean anything will happen but at least they are being discussed.

MP's are supposed to attend some parliamentary sessions so what is the problem? They are quite capable of 'multi-tasking' and thus able to respond to both petitions being raised and correspondence from constituents, surely that is what they are elected to do.
Response from jeanmark made on 8th Feb 2017 18:50:07
It depends on what you believe in as to whether you consider them a waste of time. I only sign those in support of things I feel strongly about such as Changing Places and Increasing Carers Allowance in line with the Living Wage as an example of two that are now receiving a hearing in parliament. It may or may not help but at least it has been tried.

I have no answer to your questions as to how many petitions are successful or how many MP's attend to hear them being read but I do know the Suffragettes never gave up!
Response from jeanmark made on 8th Feb 2017 20:33:25
"Seldom is it the numbers that determine the outcome, but whether those who claim to be good men are willing to stand up and fight for what they know to be right" Wayne Greeson in discussing Edmund Burke's quote "All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." I'm not sure if, in this context, the quote will be considered appropriate but I like it.

If we all take the stand that it's a waste of time as nothing changes then nothing changes. I'll continue to sign petitions for those things I believe in and hope that eventually it may make a difference.
Response from CaroleAH made on 8th Feb 2017 23:31:53
I agree with you, Jeanmark, and I particularly like that quote which is, I think, the motto of Amnesty International. It's on a display of theirs in Canterbury Cathedral.
Response from jeanmark made on 9th Feb 2017 18:43:42
Hardly Lochinvar, the quote is attributed to the Irish political philosopher Edmund Burke, 1729-1797, I don't think even Donald Trump is that old!
Response from ecarg made on 10th Feb 2017 10:47:49
Trump.,Burke care not what we May.Good or bad woman we wait and see .
In or out ,Europe the World ,Hope and despair ,Love and rage
Future prosperity or endless hardship
Endless possibilities pointless debates .Resolution required .NOW.
[deleted]
9th Feb 2017 20:58:08
1
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ecarg
9th Feb 2017 14:14:09 (Last activity: 9th Feb 2017 18:40:08)
1
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Well - no not at all .Worst A&E figures for Dec. and worst predicted for Jan. Reading the posts and expressing my limited opinions has made me understand that nobody knows all the complications that the NHS is suffering from.I just hope the people who have it in their power to act do so.It is us the electrate that can bring pressure to bear ,but petitions focussing on one area of change aren't going to bring about the major overhall that is required.Also please remember as patients we sometimes see things from the inside but a lot of this discussion is from the outside looking in.I can only thank NHS staff that must be working in extremely difficult situations to look after their fellow human biengs,which when all said and done is what all of us should be doing.
Response from jeanmark made on 9th Feb 2017 16:46:23
Well said ecarg.
Response from ecarg made on 9th Feb 2017 18:03:44
Thankyou
Your nursing experience and my social care experience reflects informed opinion of a pratical nature.
There;s them that talk and them that do. Everybody has a different opinion based on various experiences within the NHS as patients, visiting family,staff and all the associated services required to keep the system running.However one thing is for sure we are nearly all grateful to receive care and compassion in time of need or at least advice when required. Cheers NHS.
Response from jeanmark made on 9th Feb 2017 18:40:08
Cheers indeed.
PeckhamMan
9th Feb 2017 12:12:17 (Last activity: 9th Feb 2017 16:47:12)
2
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While I agree that the NHS requires more funding and that social care is part of this. I disagree that we should cut all foreign aid. We managed to utilise the resources of many Commonweatlh countries to our benefit and it is only right that we contribute to help those in need.
It is a sign of a civilised country that we help others. If all you have is despair then people will become economic migrants and seek to get into Europe
Response from jeanmark made on 9th Feb 2017 16:47:12
So agree PeckhamMan.
ecarg
9th Feb 2017 07:22:54
0
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Yes and No.This is to clear cut where is the compassion for humanity without that we become self centered and insular. NHS doctors need improved guidelines regarding the treatment administered to the care of the eldery,and for,,cosmetic surgery and whether really expensive treatment to extended the lives of the over nineties. ,Certainly maintain medication ,in other words care but operations costing thousands of pounds to extended life by a few years sometimes results in death after a few weeks.
We all know that change is necessary and is the present situation causing people to go private and is that part of the plan?
CaroleAH
4th Feb 2017 16:01:05 (Last activity: 8th Feb 2017 13:22:07)
2
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Not simplistic, Mike, just short and to the point. The only problem with sending bills to the embassies is that many of them have huge outstanding bills for illegal parking in London so if they won't pay those bills why would they pay NHS bills. Last week there was an article in the news about a Nigerian woman who was 6 months pregnant with quads and who had tried to go the USA to give birth because her doctor had told her that Nigerian hospitals could not cope with the birth. She was turned away from the US because, even though she had family there, she could not prove that she could pay for her care. Guess where she had the babies? Yes, you are correct - here in the UK incurring a bill of half a million £ which she cannot pay. Unfortunately, two of the quads did not survive and I wouldn't wish that grief on anyone, but the fact remains that this is just one case - how many more people abuse our system?
It's not just people who are admitted to hospitals who overburden the NHS. I worked in a GP surgery and an Iranian family who had lived and worked in the UK for years registered their mother who, they said, had come over from Iran to live with them for 6 months. She was on a load of medication so after seeing the GP and the nurse she was given a repeat prescription for high blood pressure, high cholesterol, heart disease and the list went on. Everything seemed okay and the prescription was ordered every month. However, when the lady was recalled for a flu injection and a medication check she was "on holiday" and couldn't attend the surgery. The excuses kept coming leaving the GPs with the dilemma of stopping the medication and risking an exacerbation in symptoms and accusations of neglect or continuing issuing the medication with the hope that the lady would eventually come in to see them. We eventually found out that this lady had only stayed in the UK for a few weeks and had then returned home to Iran and her family were stock-piling her medication and taking it to her when they visited.
The NHS needs a thorough overhaul - there are too many fat-cat chiefs and not enough indians - that's probably not a PC way of expressing myself which is why I have used lower-case letters for chiefs and indians! Rant over - time for a cuppa!
Response from jeanmark made on 4th Feb 2017 19:19:06
Many cases are agreed out of court Lionel and a large number of litigation relates to maternity. I agree with all you say but people still want someone to blame when things don't work out and for some reason medical staff, in its widest sense, are expected to care as humans but not think as such and therefore must never make a 'mistake'.
Response from jeanmark made on 5th Feb 2017 15:39:06
There are many people like you Lionel but as many who want to be compensated for pain and distress caused. A number also take action to ensure steps are taken to prevent a reoccurrence. We have possibly become a more litigious society and maybe that is the price we pay for 'progress'. I wouldn't want to return to the times when there was a 'doctor know's best' type of mentality, the times when people like my parents believed you could not question a doctor, placing them on a pedestal and accepting their 'errors'.
Response from jeanmark made on 6th Feb 2017 19:50:30
No Lionel it doesn't seem an unlikely story, we also used too have a large number of Republic of Ireland nurses come over to the UK as the pay was better although they didn't necessarily find our health care system was any more forward than theirs, other than the fact it was free at the point of delivery.

I would agree that if a professional person has done everything as expected and things still go wrong then litigation isn't appropriate, people may try but are not nearly as successful as people think. But there are a small number of occasions when it can be proven the professional didn't act as expected, took an unnecessary risk with a negative outcome. Yes, there are times when risks have to be taken but the risks and benefits should be weighed up, something an experienced person can do in seconds, but sadly there are some who do not do this. These cases are the difficult ones. Maybe if the government and news media didn't look for a scapegoat, other wouldn't either.
Response from jeanmark made on 8th Feb 2017 13:22:07
I appreciate where you are coming from Lionel but try telling a woman who has had her breast removed that unfortunately there was a mistake and the surgery wasn't necessary. You had a positive outcome, many have a negative one and it can be difficult not to take action. Each case is different and has to be seen in the context of the time it happened. From my perspective it is more important to identify why did it happened, how did it happen and what can be done to prevent a reoccurrence. There are people who only take the view it shouldn't have happened. Fortunately you are not one.
jeanmark
6th Feb 2017 13:51:24
0
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Well, a possible step toward trying to combat 'health tourism' announced this morning. Sounds good in principle but we will have to wait and see the practicalities of such a step such as how will it be managed and how will it be policed? There are a number of people who believe there are too many managers in the NHS already.
CaroleAH
4th Feb 2017 11:34:47 (Last activity: 4th Feb 2017 16:10:00)
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Hi, I have signed up! It was in the media this week that the NHS is losing billions of £ because foreigners are abusing the system by coming here to have their treatment and then disappearing without paying the bill. Would that happen in America - I don't think so! Why do people assume that care in the NHS is free? Our government should have a "name and shame" campaign and list the countries whose residents have had treatment here, what it entailed and how much is owed and that just might concentrate our minds on how "generous" we are with our hard-earned taxes. I'm not saying that foreign nationals should not receive NHS care, especially in emergencies such as road traffic accidents or heart attacks etc BUT as most sensible people do, they should have adequate health insurance to pay out should the worst happen. And, airlines should have a duty to stop obviously ill travellers and pregnant women over 5 months gestation from travelling.
Response from jeanmark made on 4th Feb 2017 15:44:09
The problem is CaroleAH, many people born and bred in the UK are also under the illusion the NHS is free rather than free at the point of delivery.
Response from CaroleAH made on 4th Feb 2017 16:10:00
Absolutely, Jeanmark, and you as a former nursing sister will know all about the unpaid bills. The whole thing is a poisoned chalice for anyone who thinks they can change things. I would hate to have the American system of health insurance and I don't know how other countries manage if they have an influx of "health" tourists.
twobikemike
4th Feb 2017 14:34:29 (Last activity: 4th Feb 2017 15:58:59)
0
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Agreed. In my view there are two very simple methods of recouping the costs of treatment to foreign nationals.

1) set up a system whereby the NHS sends the invoice to the embassy of the country to which the foreign national belongs.

2) ensure that everyone that visits this country shows proof they carry suitable/valid health insurance.

Or am I being too simplistic?
Response from jeanmark made on 4th Feb 2017 15:58:59
It isn't always as easy as one would think to invoice a non EU country for treatment given. Some would only pay if there was a pre-arrangement and certainly would't pay full costs if there was a delay or things didn't go to plan i.e Hospital Acquired Infection. It can be time consuming and expensive to keep trying to recuperate costs, I know that from experience.

Many travellers do have health insurance but it may not always cover every eventuality as many UK residents have found when they have had health problems abroad. How do we prevent such people from leaving the country before they have payed the full amount? If they have promised to pay and then do not, what can be done? Our government wouldn't pay the cost of a UK resident abroad so why should another countries government pay us?

I don't agree with the abuse but have no real answer as to how it can be prevented.

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