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SteveR4
23rd Nov 2018 20:48:29
1
Thanks for voting!
I am not a veggie or vegan, but understand the reasons why some people choose to be. When I eat meat an animal has to die, however, in order to feed veggies, every living insect and animal in that growing area is killed so that the size of the crop can be maximised.
Who is in the wrong here?
Response from MarieT2 made on 23rd Dec 2018 13:59:02
Not if you eat organic only.
Response from Lionel made on 23rd Dec 2018 15:06:41
After half a lifetime in British agriculture I came to the conclusion most organic, not all, is anything but.

My wife and I have a tenth acre organic garden here, for our own use only. The methods I use would be very familiar to gardener in the twenties and thirties. But the amount of labour required is such that if we were to sell our produce at a small profit few but the rich could afford it.

Therefore, something ain't right with shop bought organic produce.
Response from jeanmark made on 24th Dec 2018 13:57:04
MarieT2, how does organic mean that no animal is killed or plant destroyed even if raised/grown organically?
Boots
24th Nov 2018 11:15:43
0
Thanks for voting!
All living creatures have to eat something else to survive, whether they are carnivores, omnivores or vegans. Plants are just as much living things as animals, so why vegans seem to think they don't matter I don't understand. Without plants of one sort or another the world would die. All living things should be treated properly and it is as important that the crops we eat should also be grown in a humane manner not sprayed with weedkiller that kills everything, no GM crops. How vegans can think it is fine to eat plants as food but not animals I do not understand.

I appreciate that some animals are not grown and kept in a humane manner but neither are much of the plants we and vegans choose to eat. I cannot take the idea that it is wrong to eat meat as animals are sentient creatures but plants are not. Plants fully understand what is happening, although maybe not in a way we human animals understand. It is no better to eat plants than animals. We need food, and all things grown for food should be farmed humanely.
mz.g
4th Aug 2018 15:15:33
2
Thanks for voting!
I view food as medicine and observe how it impacts my body. I'm a firm believer in choice. Love vegan food, but not all the time. As diet is not political for me, I choose foods which nourish my body best. My goal at age 73 is health and mobility.

Hope you're still around to tend this thread.
Bill119
22nd Jul 2018 10:33:34
1
Thanks for voting!
I can understand vegans not wanting to kill animals, I don't like it either , but if they really believe that it's wrong then they should also petition for all predator type animals to be killed off or else what's the point. It's no good saying that it's natural for predators to kill for food because if that's the case then it's natural for us as well as after all we're animals too whether they like it or not. We are all part of the food chain nature doesn't give a damn about feelings , it's survival of the fittest so that only the healthy breed.
OldHag
20th Jul 2018 08:54:29
1
Thanks for voting!
I'm 53 and been a Veggie since I was 8, won't touch meat fish or poultry because of animal abuse/environment etc. then in March 2018 I was diagnosed with Type 2 Diabetes so immediately went Vegan and I actually feel a lot better and several people have told me I look it too! Also lost about 2 stone in 3 months by going Vegan!
jeanmark
5th Nov 2016 13:57:51
1
Thanks for voting!
I can understand your reason but it is a personal choice. Although I eat very little meat I just have difficulty in understanding what would happen if we all became vegans? Would it mean that farm animals, cows, lambs, pigs etc. would then become endangered as I'm not sure any farmer could keep them as pets? Would these people then lose their livelihood? How does veganism prevent hunger?
Response from Goodeone made on 5th Nov 2016 20:36:11
If we all became vegan cows ect would probably die out though some may be kept the way we keep rare animals. Veganism helps reduce human hunger in that grain that is fed to animals can be fed direct to people.
Response from jeanmark made on 5th Nov 2016 20:45:47
Thanks for clearing that up for me.
Response from dsr25 made on 3rd Apr 2018 09:18:55
That’s fine if you can eat grains... I can’t
Boots
22nd Sep 2017 12:48:34
4
Thanks for voting!
I have had a read of what has been said with regard to the way animals are treated and this is the main reason that most people have become vegan. Nobody has ever really answered what would happen to all the animals that would no longer be eaten if everyone became a vegan, or even a vegetarian come to that.

We could not have hundreds of cows, sheep and pigs, not to mention chickens, ducks and turkeys, just living somewhere until they died of old age or illness. Perhaps these people don't mind them just being killed off and a few kept in a zoo. These are domesticated animals and need the help of human beings to live. They cannot just be let loose into the countryside. Even sheep which are more able to live in the countryside need help to stay healthy. Incidentally not all animals require grain to live a healthy life. Those farmed organically do not. Many animals are not actually meant to live on large amounts of grain.

Good luck to those who want to be vegan or vegetarian. Incidentally to those who eat fish, much of that is farmed and fed the wrong food. Fish are meant to swim, not be kept in large pens with thousands of other fish. It is a bit like the awful way of factory farming chickens, or indeed any other animal. However we are designed by nature to be omnivores and eat both animal and plant food. As far as I can I ensure the meat I eat is farmed properly, preferably organic, but not necessarily, as I do with the vegetables and fruit I eat. I would hate to see a land devoid of animals and most of the land used to grow masses of grain and vegetable type food. This by the way would require masses of unhealthy types of fertilizers to grow so much food as the earth would be come barren.

Surely good husbandry and then the humane slaughter of the animals is what is required.
Response from Lionel made on 23rd Sep 2017 15:59:12
Boots, yours is surely the most reasoned reply so far. Thank you.

Perhaps I'm the best qualified of those who have posted so far to say that. I was a farm worker for years, pigs, cattle and sheep, as well as all cultivations. As such I know from long experience how animals are bred, reared and treated. The golden rule is, if you mistreat your live stock they will ill treat you. Stockman must do everything to ensure their charges don't fear them. Hurt ¾ of a ton of bull and one day he will hurt you. Animals do have long memories!

One farm I worked on had a couple of holiday lets. Mostly city people. One guest, a very opinionated woman was berating me over something when the vet arrived. We had a steer with Tetanus - the Staggers. He shot a captive bolt into its head to end it's suffering. She witnessed it all at very close range and fainted into a load of cattle muck, steers brains splattered over her. Good riddance!

We live in a short bubble in time with an abundance of cheap food, whereas I grew up in the early fifties when food was in very short supply. I take the view, and strongly so, be grateful for what you have; and do not attack those who provide your food.

I see no case for veganism, nor vegetarianism. They food fads, yet another way of self flagellation for feel good masochists.
Response from Boots made on 23rd Sep 2017 17:27:52
Thank you so.much for your reply. We have lived with domesticated animals for hundreds of years, and hopefully for many many more with thought and care for both the animals and the land. God help us all if we change the food we eat. As well as those vegan and vegetarian people unfortunately we have people given government money to tell us more or less to stop eating meat as it is not good for us, they say if we must eat meat it should be those poor factory farmed chickens that are far from healthy in themselves because of the way they live.
Response from jeanmark made on 23rd Sep 2017 19:10:20
Sorry Lionel, neither vegetarianism or veganism are fads, Vegetarianism has its roots in the civilizations of ancient India and Greece and although the Vegan Society was established about 70 years ago there is evidence of people choosing to avoid animal products over 2,000 years.

Maybe younger people are not aware of its history and certainly intensive farming couldn't be blamed 2000 years ago - maybe it was having to chase your dinner that caused a problem!!
Carolineblue
9th Sep 2017 23:26:36
1
Thanks for voting!
I stopped eating meat soon after leaving home at 19 because I never really liked it but I was brought up to eat everything on my dinner plate, or else I got nothing. I feel ashamed that animal husbandry for the production of meat can be so intensive that care of the animals isn't what it should be. But there again, I also believe that food crops grown industrially and without regard for the natural environment and ecosystems is also wrong. So I eat fish and dairy and eggs and I know what happens to get them to my plate. Oneday I may give those up too, but as I like the taste, and as my hubby does most of the cooking it would be quite difficult, I won't do so for some time. Last year I had someone staying for a week who was vegan , so I took charge of cooking dinner for her and me and it wasn't a problem at all to go properly vegan. Hubby even attempted a couple of vegan desserts which showed willing. I don't like aggressive vegan propaganda, mainly because the videos I find upsetting and depressing. I have faith in government legislation for humane animal production and I think Man will always be omnivore. If I ever went to a country where I thought the farming methods were bad I would go vegan.
Wendy7
28th Mar 2017 22:48:46
3
Thanks for voting!
Good to see other vegans on here, I grew up on a farm and stopped eating animals as a young child, I later became vegan. I cannot believe the cruelty that is inflicted on other living beings who want to live their own lives. They are treated like slaves and robbed of their young. Farming animals is also one of the world's biggest environmental disasters. I have heard people say they love farm animals, but they still eat them!
Response from Jennifer123 made on 23rd Jun 2017 09:06:16
I absolutely agree Wendy7, I find it heart breaking to see those terrible lorries full of animals being taken for slaughter.

And yes the torture is beyond belief.
dsr25
15th May 2017 09:01:31
0
Thanks for voting!
I was vegetarian for four years, then went back to eating meat, then vegetarian again after 2 years.

I was then struck down with a horrendous dairy allergy, and I tried eating vegan for 3 months. I lost weight and felt full, but found it exceedingly difficult with my lifestyle, living out of hotels when contracting (vegan food neigh impossible in some areas) and living mainly on nuts and pre packaged salads from M&S.... 🙁 Hubby likes to eat out frequently and isn't keen on vegan foods every time (he will eat it, but is a meat eater).

My sister a celiac and I am sensitive (if not celiac myself) so grains are a big issue for me.

So I am now back to eating meat (organic, free-range), but no dairy or wheat.... I am veggie at heart, but its unsustainable for me at present.

I have a library of vegan books, and we eat vegan meals amidst our meat meals, as I do believe meat eaters are eating far more meat than ever currently. I try to eat veggie two meals a day (eggs for breakfast, hummous or soup for lunch) to reduce my impact.

Those of you who manage to live a vegan lifestyle, I applaud; not all of us are as able too... (pills are a nightmare as 95% have dairy in them, last time I took pills was for shingles, and as per usual, my eyes swelled and closed over)
KarenWA
18th Mar 2017 11:49:07
2
Thanks for voting!
I became vegan about 18 months ago. I so wish I had woken up years before. I feel so much more at peace.
Mels
7th Nov 2016 16:41:26
4
Thanks for voting!
I'm not a vegan but I have a very good friend who is and I respect her choice as she respects mine as a meat eater. If being a vegan makes you happier and you clearly have valid reasons for doing so then good luck to you. It is not a lifestyle choice that I believe I would ever make but that is probably because of my upbringing - I was raised in a farming community, many of my family worked the land and it was accepted that we would eat what we grew or raised. My uncle was the local gamekeeper and from a very early age rearing birds to be shot was quite normal. At the age of ten my grandfather taught me how to skin a rabbit - again this was quite normal and I've grown up with it.

I don't know whether being a vegan will make any great difference to slowing down food shortages and the like in the future but I applaud the conscience you have and maybe we could do with a few more in the world who consider things as deeply as you do, coupled with your efforts to do something about it.
happystar
5th Nov 2016 15:09:53
0
Thanks for voting!
How has more than 2 decades of veganism helped the environment, and the hungry?
Response from Goodeone made on 5th Nov 2016 21:31:47
Every person who is vegan saves:-
1,100 gallons of water
45 lbs of grain
30ft of forested land
20lbs CO equivalent
1 animals life
Every day!
Response from Lionel made on 5th Nov 2016 22:11:11
We have sufficient water for ourselves, as God intended, but not enough for those who's design is to occupy these islands.

If 45lbs of grain is daily released into the economy then vested interests will find an alternative, less savoury, use for it.

30' of forested land - I don't understand. Is that 30' by 200 miles?

And as for the CO2, methinks you've imbibed some climate change nonsense.

I've spent twenty five years as a farm stockman; cattle, dairy, pigs and sheep. And I'm a carnivore. I shoot to eat the kill and next year will increase my chicken stock to include birds for the table.

I am very pleased you have the choice of which foods to eat, and it is your choice as it is mine. Yet, if you survey the state of Europe and in particular this country, such a choice may not be available in a few months.

Methinks, no matter how well off we are, food will be in short supply. Even beans on toast will be a luxury.
Destination Seeker
5th Nov 2016 13:44:29
3
Thanks for voting!
My son chose to become a vegan some years ago, and gradually I learnt to cook vegan for when I would see him.

Initially I used to worry about his vitamin intake, particularly the B vitamins. He is 39 now and healthy and fit.

I enjoy the vegan food and recipes that I have developed over the years, so that I mostly eat vegan too, though I do not ascribe to being labelled.

The regime suits me fine. I find it is great for my digestive system, and nutritious and tasty foods can be made quite reasonably with care and attention. I am lucky because I am already a capable cook, so it was not hard to learn this new skill. I think it is possibly less expensive to eat this diet, though I have not done a cost analysis. It must certainly be better for families and groups to eat vegan. As it is I live alone.

My son maintains that it is not necessary to eat meat, and I am still not convinced. I do eat some dairy and eggs for example occasionally.

My blood tests have shown a lack of vitamins A and D, though I am not sure those can be ascribed to veganism. Just quirkiness of my own particular body.
Terrysoldgal
4th Nov 2016 20:12:45
1
Thanks for voting!
Hats off to you, although I am not a vegan I do try to limit the amount of meat that I eat for all of the reasons that you stated. I don't eat red meat or pork so mostly it is free range chicken and fish. I think if more people limited their intake of meat or went 'meat free' one day a week it would help the planet and be healthier.
ecarg
4th Nov 2016 15:45:49
0
Thanks for voting!
I think were lucky to have the choice if you feel better and believe you are making a difference that's all the reason you need
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