Do you support Boris’s decision to suspend Parliament?
In a dramatic move on Wednesday morning, Britain’s new Prime Minister Boris Johnson set in motion the suspension of the UK Parliament – which means MPs have much less time to debate Brexit, the process of the UK leaving the European Union.
Mr Johnson spoke to the Queen on Wednesday morning to request an end to the current parliamentary session – a process known as prorogation.
Parliament is to be suspended for five weeks ahead of 31 October, the day the UK is due to leave the EU.
People who want the UK to remain in the EU are calling it a coup – and even some in favour of Brexit have criticised the move.
“There will be ample time on both sides of that crucial October 17 summit, ample time in Parliament for MPs to debate the EU, to debate Brexit, and all the other issues,” Mr Johnson said.
Opposition leaders have written to the monarch in protest and Commons Speaker John Bercow said the move was a “constitutional outrage” designed to stop Parliament debating Brexit.
Thousands of people have protested against plans to suspend Parliament in rallies in London, Edinburgh and other cities within hours of Boris Johnson announcing the plan.
At Westminster, crowds blocked traffic and some staged a sit-down protest in Parliament Square chanting “stop the coup” while others headed for Downing Street.
There were also impromptu demonstrations planned in Edinburgh, Cardiff, Manchester, Bristol, Cambridge and Durham after the Queen approved an order that will see Parliament suspended for more than a month.
Shadow home secretary Diane Abbott told protesters outside Parliament: “At the end of the day, it doesn’t exactly matter where you stand on Brexit, it matters where you stand on Tory prime ministers closing Parliament because they don’t want to give people a say.
“If this was a Latin American country it would be called a coup, complete with American president publicly backing it. We have to stop this coup, not just for Parliament but for this country’s future and for our children’s future.”
Shadow chancellor John McDonnell told the protesters: “The message is simple, whatever side you’re on in the debate around Brexit, the message is absolutely simple here, we’re supposed to be a democracy, and that democracy is meant to be a parliamentary democracy.
“They have taken away the decision. We think the decision that Boris Johnson is frightened of is Parliament itself taking control of the agenda next week and they’re not allowing us the opportunity.
“By closing Parliament down, it effectively closes democracy down in this country.”
What are your views? Do you support Boris’s decision to suspend Parliament? Is this a wise move?
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The only reason that I voted for them in the last general election, is because of their 'promise' to TAKE US OUT of Europe and not do a partial exit with one foot inside the EU and the other one on the outside.
As far as I am concerned, the Conservatives, Labour Party, Liberals and a few others, are traitors, liars, con artists and cheats of magnum proportion and should be prosecuted for
false representation. That isn't going to happen though, because the system is corrupt and is as bent as a monkey's tail.
There is no such word as 'democracy' in the UK.
What was the point in holding a referendum about staying, or leaving, the EU?
Worse still, is the way that some 'leavers' have succumbed to the rhetoric of the politicians that want us to stay inside the EU for their own greedy and political benefits.
The general election will tell, but I suspect that the Conservatives will win the day. (Not with my help, they won't!)
It seems that the British people are terrified of not voting for what they know is right for us all, but instead want to just go with the flow. Rather like the King and his 'new suit of clothes.'
They all knew that the King was naked, but didn't want to appear stupid and all agreed that the new suit of clothes was fantastic and the best suit of clothes that they had ever seen.
Only one little boy told the truth and I am firmly on that little boy's side.
Get rid of the two party system of UK politics.
Get rid of the fossils that are in parliament and all of leaches that are sucking the life blood out of the UK.
We urgently need a completely new political start in the UK and have done so for many years.
For me, personally, it has to be a vote for Nigel Farage and the Brexit party.
I'm not asking anyone to agree with me, I am merely stating what I consider to be the only way forward.
Despite all the promises and hot air about "come what may, we will not ask for and EU extension and we will leave the EU on October 31st............................I'd sooner die in a ditch,..................blah-blah-blah-blah."
The referendum was a complete waste of time.
Why? Because 'they' had already decided that, despite their promises to 'uphold the decision of the British people,' it was already decided that they would prevent it........just as Harold Wilson did in the 1975. (Yes, I didn't believe that result, either!)
However, there is a positive side to all this.
We now have absolutely 100% proof that the political parties (Tories, Labour, Liberals, Greens, etc) are all habitual liars and will promise you anything, just to get your vote.
If and when there is a general election, I think it is about time we all fought back and showed these despicable people exactly what we think of them and get rid!
We are desperate for a new way in the political arena.
The only party that has stood firm on the present issue is the Brexit Party.
Some of you will not agree with what I say.
That is your right and I respect it.
A lot of fickle minded people have been brain washed into listening to and accept all the clap trap and false stories of gloom and doom, meted out by those that have a self interest and motivated by greed.
The only thing that it has achieved, is panic mongering, fear and setting the people against the people.
We have the chance to change things around and get rid of the 'wolves in sheep's clothing.'
Or, are you going to sit back, blame everyone else and let the future of Britain be ruled by the people that are self elected in Europe.
Every November, large numbers of people gather in Whitehall (And many other places) to honour those that 'GAVE their lives' so that WE could be FREE..
Yes, free...............and Brussels wants to claim our freedom and have us live OUR lives THEIR way.
If fail to understand why many in Britain cannot to see that.
We have to 'take the bull by the horns,' do something positive and vote the politicians in the Westminster gas factory. out!
Not just accept being pushed and pulled around by those in there that couldn't give a damn about us.
You have the chance.............don't waste it............it's up to you.
We have the Remainers fighting tooth and nail for their EU pensions. Leavers fighting to have their democratic will carried out. Bercow doing his best to upheave the situation for his masters in the EU Commission. Boris Johnson might be a bumbler, a womaniser and bends the rules. So what? He's the only one trying to get the democratic vote through and working, while everyone else throws mud and lies to get their own ends. Even this site is slinging mud around and trying to force their own outlook and beliefs onto others.
This is supposed to be a democratic country. Democracy has gone to hell in a hand cart.
Corbett is but a puppet whose strings are pulled by McDonald.
The sooner we are out the better.
Boris, with all his faults and failings, wants to deliver on a democratic vote. There are times when we need the strong arm of action to act against the indecision of those who do not respect the will of the majority of voters.
The problem has roots - not in Boris - but in the need for our country to have a WRITTEN CONSTITUTION and a fairly structured, reformed system of voting.
We will receive the judgment of their Lordships soon. Go for it Boris!
The system represents and acts in the best interests of the 45 million people who have a vote and the further 22 million people who because of age or other factors do not have a vote. Total 67 million.
What has happened now, is that Boris Johnson has chosen to take away the representative democracy of 67 million.
He is doing this on behalf of a shrinking in numbers, minority common interest group, who represent at best 22% of the
population.
Of course it is wrong.
Give us what 17.4 million people voted for.
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/254329
I might add it seems to me he's about the only one in Westminster who is acting lawfully!
17.4 million voters' made it quite clear that they (The majority) want to leave Europe.
it was a democratic vote and all the parties said that they would honour the outcome of it, no matter which way it was decided.
Then, unconstitutionally and undemocratically, they (The arrogant, self important, crass politicians) showed their true colours. The true colours that 'they' never intended for us to leave in the first place!
Hype, hysteria, fear mongering, exaggeration and blatant lies That is 'their' (The politicians') idea of democracy and lots of people, without a clue of how to think things out for themselves, follow.......... like a load of sheep and actually believe what these dictating cretins say.
The remoaners' should stop bleating, accept that the people voted to leave Europe and get out of the way.
If they love Europe so much, let them go and live there...........we don't need them here.
On the news this morning, (Saturday 7th Sept) I had a really good laugh at the scene in Parliament as Boris Johnson mouthed off (Over the shouting chaos) at Corbyn, "big girl's blouse."
Oh my goodness, I could see the funny side of that and it was much relief from all the shouting, back biting and bickering that goes on there.
Needless to say, the do gooders, and the pc brigade launched into it and accused him of being 'homophobic' and 'misogynistic.'
What the hell has this country turned into? Are we not allowed to laugh and have a bit of fun?
Well, sod the pc brigade and if that offends anyone............sod them, too!
He must seek re election every five years, if you don't agree with the party you support, then you use your vote to say so.
You don't throw your toys out the pram and suspend parliament because you can not get your own way.
The one and only time I ever voted Tory, was when Teresa May declared a general Election.
The reason for my vote? Because they promised to take us out of Europe.
In fact, all the parties promised to obey whatever the outcome of the referendum would be.
In reality, they have totally ignored 17.5 million voters and are doing what 'they' want.
I could go on for ages, but what is the point?
In passing, I will just say this.
The MP's that have caused enormous damage, one way and another, should be prosecuted for their false representation.
It wasn't truthful and it certainly was not honest.
But, there it is, that's the twisted and corrupt world of politics
Anyone fancy reporting them to the Advertising Standard Agency?
Oh, by the way, I am a firm Brexit Party supporter and I will definitely be voting for them if and when there is an election.
This government appears to be trying to lose everyone's support!
1. We will not exit on Oct 31st.
2. There will be a general election soon
3. The Conservatives will be returned to power, minus the ones who defied the party whip and replaced by ones who will toe the line.
4. Boris will then have an obedient majority to progress his policy through parliament.
5. Boris' policy is to leave, with the best deal he can get and a date to be set in stone.
6. Brexit will happen in 2020.
Bets anyone?
It won’t be leaving Europe that kills the UK it will be the idea of trading with a bunch of muppets (that’s what the world is seeing right now on their bed)
The uk could and I’m hoping will be the very best there is if we let. Boris do the job he has been given and just get on with the exit .. we will make it work...
If we don’t leave I see no future for us as a country ... the war will have been lost !!
MPs need to realise once and for all that the UK voted to leave, so irrespective of what ANY MP’s personal preference is they are paid to do a job and the bottom line is NOT what they personally want or how much they personally will lose but to do the job that the public of the UK asked for...Get OUT of the EU as quick as we can. This constant backbiting and squabbling like uncouth children is not doing the UK any good at all.
So to all MPs who are frightened of losing a ‘bob or two’. Put the people of the UK first. ‘OUT MEANS OUT’ stop all the dithering and get the job done, before there really is a coup led by the people of the UK.
and I fully support any action that he sees fit to put a stop to the parasites that have spent the last three years trying to force the UK to stay in the corrupt E.U.
How many of the remain MPs are being paid by industry to try and block us leaving, because they want a mass influx of cheap labour.
Gordon Brown that failed useless PM let the cat out of the bag when he said that the UK must have a large pool of cheap labour in order to compete with China and India.
We get all the scaremongering, deceit and downright lies about what would happen if we left, but nothing about what life would be like if we begged to stay in as the remainers want.
Already the UK cannot cope with massive road jams, hospitals struggling to cope, with housing shortage, weeks to see a doctor or dentist, massive increase in crime because we cannot deport the criminals coming here just for starters.
It is quite ironic really that the younger generation that are being persuaded to remain will eventually be the real losers should we be forced to remain.
Finally all this crying and whining by remainers about democracy when They are the ones that are trying to subvert democracy.
After we leave on 31st August instead of keep insulting leavers with their childish behavour they should buy themselves some dummies to throw out of the pram.
My own view, that we are headed for a civil war, has made me a most unpopular figure, but the signs are in place. It's all there awaiting a match to the blue touch paper. It will be dreadful, father against sons, mother against daughters ... this scenario may be seen all over the world where people have been betrayed by their leaders. Just wait, it's coming to a town near us all.
May God have mercy on us.
brexit without spiteful Iill educated comments. Personally I voted to remain and have never swayed from that. I get absolutely sick of reading the same.old.comments (from both 'sides') and despair at how we are no.longer the 'united' kingdom. It seems as though there is a huge 'them and us' conflict going on and just everybody is right!!!!!
Don't get me wrong I can understand some might not like the concept of leaving without a deal. But to actively undermine a referendum result would have dire consequences for our trust in our political system. The intention is still to agree a deal, but without the ability to walk away without a deal it is somewhat akin to turning up for a boxing match with one hand tied behind your back. We were told quite clearly the referendum was a one off event and then government would deliver on the result. Boris is doing his level best to achieve this for us. Perversely by attempting to weaken the governments bargaining position by removing a no deal option it appears that MPs are pushing us ever increasingly in to just that - a no deal scenario.
Leaving on WTO is not a long term commitment, agreements can and will be reached. However I do have hope that this won't be the case. As a country that is heavily dependent on exports to the UK and main funder of the EU Germany as the one paying the piper can call the tune - and German industry will demand that tune is a reasonable deal.
There’s going to be a lot more water under the bridge and vitriol across the country before it gets sorted, just hope we can remain friends either way - so long as we stay in
Not much more water to go under the bridge. The vitriol I feel will continue from the Remainers. Every weekend I am on a stall for The Brexit Party and we get sworn at and threatened by people who disagree with our aims, but very little discussion.
Sure we can remain friends, whatever happens.
Our useless MPs have been debating Brexit for three years, and failed to agree on a deal, so we should just leave without one.
Leaving without a deal might concentrate their minds on reaching and agreement if possible with the EU.
'Much ado about nothing' sums up our current MPs.
If he is as good as has been mentioned, does he know what happend in the time of Charles I and Cromwell?
Does he know about the Cavaliers and round hats?
Does he know why the war of Roses were fought and why the Royal Treasure was thrown into the waste?
Does he know/understand the geography of his own people and country?
The way he goes about I sincerely doubt that.
And why when he is mister plastic fantastic did he not step into the shoes of Mr Cameron when stepped down?
Instead he started to bully the new Prime ministers without rhyme nor reason, do people really trust him and think he is the bees knees?
I see this beautiful and peaceful country going to rack and ruin and it will take a real Man/Woman to put it all up to rights again.
What a shame and waste.
His hollow phrases are showing more holes than a colander, his promisses are easily put aside with a few simple methods in changing a few of our own laws, if he could bring up thinking time about these easy solutions.
I do not like bullies because in themselves they have not the faintest of ideas how to deal with problems in depth.
See, things can always be worse...
then they should leave you have to have a border in Ireland so stuff from the EU cant come into the U.K. through the back door. good luck to everyone.
So, the OP's points are relevant to current decisions, and MPs are entitled to follow their consciences, or what they perceive as best for the country/populace.
It is not a question of "usual suspects"; it is recognition, with the advantage of much revelation and fresh information, that the whole Brexit issue has been mismanaged and thus needs to be brought back to the people, not imposed with a bludgeon.
Parliament is being prorogued under a constitutional right. It is time we found out what our domestic agenda is, as it’s 2 years since we knew what the government were planning domestically. Let’s get behind Boris then we can get on with what is important GREAT BRITAIN, let’s make it GREAT again.
Never mind that the result was based on fraud
https://bit.ly/2Ujm9eo
SIR – The norm at Westminster, until 2010, was for the summer recess to last from late July until about 15 October.
Labour introduced a change to insert a September sitting into the calendar. This happened in 2003 and 2004 and then the idea was dropped. It was only reintroduced by the coalition government in 2010.
So not only had it been perfectly normal for Parliament to be in recess throughout August, September and much of October, but it was equally the case that prime ministers changed the system when necessary, without public outcry, to ensure they could carry out their legislative programme.
Those that are genuinely concerned about getting a good and timely deal between the UK and the EU should be doing all they can to support the Prime Minister and ensure that Brussels understands this.
I know only too well that in the EU, nothing is possible and anything is possible – it just requires political will.
Geoffrey Van Orden MEP
Leader of the Conservatives in the European Parliament
Chelmsford, Essex
Having longer holidays, or not, is fine. Recalling parliament when necessary for an issue is fine.
Deliberately avoiding sitting, when a hugely urgent national decision is at hand, is arrogant abuse of our democratic system.
Also, the period from 9th September to 20th September Parliament was going to be closed down anyway for conference season. In effect he has only closed down Parliament for an 4 extra days!
One should ponder on this thought, it is 1163 days since the referendum in June 2016, and with the deadline of October 31st looming up on the horizon our MPs saw it fit to go on 6 weeks holiday......and now suddenly they are complaining about losing 4 days of debate......
".....And this year it had already been agreed by the Commons that we would not sit from September 12th to October 9th so all this talk of a coup etc is just complete remoaner frustration now that it looks like we really will leave on October 31st......"
Recess is not MPs' personal choice; it is timetabled by the government of the day, though parliament can attempt to control it. They cannot control prorogation.
You point out the urgency, yet it is Bojo's cabinet that is keeping parliament closed; and it is the MPs who are actually having to try to find a way to debate parliamentary business despite this arrogant ruse.
Anyone that believes this is normal practice is set to believe any of the lies from leave, easiest deal ever, there’s no need for a plan B because this will be a walk in the park, we’ll get a better deal than the one we have already
The lentil will be in short supply, and Soya impossible to purchase as Trump has penalised its export.
It seems fairly certain the EU has been meddling in our affairs by offering substantial bribes to feed what was in the beginning quite a small remain voice. Some of our politicians are just too pro-remain for anyone's good and I can't help but wonder why. I'm sure it's not a dedication to the welfare of this nation since the Labour lot spent ten years ruining what once was.
I believe it's fair to say our politicians, unless independently wealthy, just follow the money.
Read the following for a clear view of the arguments why pro-Remain is a very reasonable position.
https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/brexit/2016/10/24/brexit-is-not-the-will-of-the-british-people-it-never-has-been/
On the politicians, I agree most follow their vested interests, but especially the 'independently wealthy'.
There are some good men and women in the Commons, but not enough to make a difference.
Is it fair and just to term such people British? I don't think so.
Just to make the point, how is Bris Johnson a fascist? He's a rank and file Tory, may even be Conservative!
However, his current intentions do fit with the following parts of the definition of fascism: "dictatorial power, forcible suppression of opposition".
It is not about defining Johnson or the Tories -- it is about recognising the thin end of a wedge driven into parliamentary democracy.
The BIG problem here was thst all the mps declared they would uphold the vote not for one moment expecting leave to win!
As it had already bèen agreed thst parliament would not sit for most of Sept into Oct what is the problem? I have mot seen any indication that any conferences have been cancelled.
I await further action with interest.
Answers on a postage stamp, please.
and then go some more.
Also this from Mike Harding seems to make sense.
Dear Brexiteers
You voted Leave because the EU was undemocratic?
(It isn't - all MEPs are voted in - ministers are appointed from amongst them. The Civil Service for 28 EU countries in Brussels is smaller than Whitehall.)
You voted Leave because you wanted Parliament to be sovereign?
(We never lost our Sovereignty - the govt White Paper stated this)
You wanted Brexit with all of the same benefits, without the cost?
(We spend more money propping up the 6 counties of Northern Ireland than we do for membership of the EU.)
You were worried about immigration (70% comes from non EU countries. EU citizens here actually are net contributors to our tax system - and under the 3 month rule we can send any home back to their EU countries that don't have a job or somewhere to live - we chose not to use that power for some reason.)
You swallowed the lies Farage, Mogg and Bojo told you
"Take back control..." Well they have done - OF YOU.
Now open your eyes to what we've got. Democracy shut down and a right wing coup - aided by you.
You want "strong govt and a leader who gets things done"?
So they did in Germany in the 1930s when Hitler got the Reichstagg dissolve because it was thwarting the "will of the people."
Well you Brexiteers -
He couldn't destroy the UK - but you have managed it.
If you want to quote Germany in the 30's I'd suggest you study the entirety of history from the end of the First World War to 1939. I have. It puts a whole new complexion on todays affairs.
What goes around has already come around.
https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/brexit/2016/10/24/brexit-is-not-the-will-of-the-british-people-it-never-has-been/
https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/eu-referendum-second-world-war-veterans-come-out-against-brexit-a7019646.html
'Four war heroes, including the former head of the military Field Marshal Lord Bramall, have recorded messages of support for the Remain campaign as the Prime Minister prepares to highlight the human cost paid by Britain in bringing peace to Europe.
David Cameron will refer to the “serried rows of white headstones” in cemeteries in Europe in his speech on Monday to illustrate the historic ties between the UK and its neighbours.
He will say: "Our history teaches us: the stronger we are in our neighbourhood, the stronger we are in the world. "Isolationism has never served this country well. Whenever we turn our back on Europe, sooner or later we come to regret it. We have always had to go back in, and always at much higher cost'.
I also cannot wait to pay extra to get a driving permit and visa to visit France when it used to be so easy just driving over there to visit my family with no bother.
Of course, if I had millions in the bank I would be so upset to find that I could invest it tax free somewhere dodgy, like the Cayman Islands emulating Mr Rees with no need to worry about the EU wanting to stop me.
Oh happy days are coming.
Having to pay for a driving permit and visa is the EU at work....blame them.
As for the millions in tax havens, the British revenue have been very active in tracking down money and disallowing tax avoidance schemes. There is no reason for it to stop when we are out of the EU.
People say mind over matter. Well we've got the matter, where are the minds?
Let's get out
I wouldn't take too much notice of the if I were you.
The Lords have already opined on the legality and necessity of not having to fork over the £39bn, even the EUgh has acknowledged that they cannot force the UK to pay. The sum was mooted on the promise that it paved the way for a trade deal. Maybe, if they gave us a suitable trade deal, we'd be amenable to be paying SOMETHING in return, but paying up-front before the negotiations have even begun is lunacy.
As for the old chestnut of "WTO rules" not working because that's already been debunked by the WTO themselves.', the ex-CEO of the WTO first said it would work, then changed his mind (presumably after his bank balance was added to by certain quarters). However, the CURRENT WTO management has agreed it WOULD work.
Let’s get on with it...let’s make Britain Great again.
Let’s sort the Police and OUR NHS.....let’s no let people who have not paid into the system for healthcare get away without paying...no wonder the NHS is broke.
We became a great nation based on industrial heritage and slavery, we have neither now (good thing about the slavery). How can a nation of 65m become the 5th largest economy when it turns its back on nearest neighbours. We don’t own any sizeable car industry, shipping, even our power stations are foreign owned
Just look at the times children with serious health problems have to go abroad to get the treatment they need and the parents have to appeal for help from our generous public to fund them . They get nowt for free , so it should work both ways.
I believe it to be a truism that we only value what we pay for. That which causes us to make a sacrifice to obtain. It is true of Christianity and almost equally true of public services. The fact that less than 40% of the working population now pay tax means non-payers won't ever appreciate that which the state supplies them, including the National Health Service.
Wether he loses the battle at least he tried..
If we have to agree to the EU and all its rules the voters who vote to remain will completely destroy the fishing industry what a lot of working class fishermen rely on..they are not millionaires.. 39 billion
filling their coffers not ours..So again Boris Johnson did the right thing...
If we take back control of our fishing, then the rights will just be sold the same as the quotas were
Just consider Britain in 1937'38. Many, many of the aristocracy,so called intelligentsia and their acolytes wanted to appease Hitler. Today we would call them remainers. It wasn't o long before that dark angel and his henchmen showed us their real strengths. War, rape, pillage, mass murder ... I could go on. And our so called clever ones, including royalty wanted to sign us up to that?
Let's get out before the e`utopian fan gets too sticky.
I will. British agriculture. Want to know more. Just ask.
The Tories have caused immense pain to millions while older people look on. Where has the humanity of my generation gone? Is it all second homes and cruises while we have hungry children living in slum conditions. I am very ashamed of my peers who support this tiny minority of millionaires because they imagine quite wrongly that they will be protected. When they need social care there won't be anything left at all so they will die on the streets with the rest of us.
Regards
Lorna
Wilf has summed it up very nicely.
All these demonstrations against prerogation of Parliament are phoney. It's perfectly legal and is very similar to what has been done in previous years. All this criticism is coming from the Remain camp who see their opportunities for stalling Brexit rapidly disappearing. They are trying to make out that Boris is going to lead the UK into a "No Deal" nightmare. What rubbish!
We are leaving on October 31st and if there is No Deal, the blame for that will remain fairly and squarely on the shoulders of the EU.
The late, lamented Frank Zappa once said "A mind is like a parachute - it only works when it's open". Perhaps, instead of reading the Daily Mail's opinions (it makes a point of not printing facts), you could try reading, say, the Economist, which this week has an excellent article about the erosion of democracy in Hungary. It points to rather scary parallels between what's happening there and Johnson's actions. The similarities with Germany between 1929 & 1933 are scary.
Sharon Harrison also has some very interesting things to say over on Quora (https://www.quora.com/Are-Remainers-unable-to-accept-the-2016-referendum/answer/Sharon-Harrison-106?ch=10&share=5260ffd5&srid=3Tag6_)
It seems that you express typical BeLeaver views: -
1) The EU is bad. (BeLeavers are at a loss to provide any evidence for this view, but they know this to be the case)
2) It's essential to deliver Brexit (again, Leavers can't identify a single benefit of any form of Brexit to the people of the UK, but we have to do it - whatever 'it' is)
3) 'we' have to 'take back control'. (Again, no idea who 'we' are - actually, spoiler alert, they're the billionaires, millionaires & political chancers who lied to you to convince you to vote Leave)
4) Everything is the fault of Remainers and the EU. Never the hate-mongers who stirred up unprecedented anti-EU feeling through their lies & propaganda to avoid ATAD (Google it). Or the parade of incompetent village idiots the UK sent to Brussels. Or the unprincipled chancers who are prepared to sell their country for political or financial advantage. Or the people who preferred to believe the lies that supported their prejudices, rather than ever CHECK THE FACTS.
One more quote - "It is easier to con a man than to persuade him he's been conned" - Mark Twain. Good luck with the destruction of UK Parliamentary democracy, Lance.
Yes the vote came out in Leaves favour but it's like going ahead with a dignitas appointment after the doctor has told you you'll be ok after all. We need to change our minds, but that's democracy and we seem to be forgetting that at the moment.
He felt positive the UK would thrive and prosper after Brexit with or without a deal....as we had in the past. I believe this is what Boris Johnson thinks and so do I.
Maybe if Boris could get the UK deal where we were part of the (EFTA) Then he would get more support in parliament & with the people. The way things stand he is acting like a dictator by not listening to his ministers or people and is going to send us crashing out without a deal. This has already affected jobs, inward investment into the UK. But one of the worst things about Boris apart from his continuous living and change of stance when it suits him, is that he is an unelected Primeminister, voted in by a few tories and not the electorate of the UK.
Iceland is a member of the EuropeanFree Trade Association (EFTA), a grouping of four non-EU Europeancountries, and is also part of theEuropean Economic Area (EEA). ...Iceland is a member of the Nordic Passport Union and the Schengen Area, which now is under EU law, as a non-voting participant.
And this....
Three territories of EU member states havewithdrawn: French Algeria (in 1962, upon independence), Greenland (in 1985, followinga referendum) and Saint Barthélemy (in 2012), the latter two becoming Overseas Countriesand Territories of the European Union.
All from Wikipedia
Spouting nonsense is dangerous as some people will believe you.
The fact that they have excellent trade deals really makes such a difference.
Maybe you're thinking of the fact that Iceland applied for membership and then withdrew its application in 2013. It does, however continue to be a member of the EU single market, something that the Brexit fanatics are determined to repudiate. I guess that's an important factor in the strong Iceland economy.
You, and in fact all of us, were lied to by some very plausible people. On an industrial scale, complete with faked evidence and some very clever psychological tricks. Now that the truth has come out, some of us are very very angry about what has been done to us, and we're fighting back.
Unfortunately, some others still want to believe the lies, because they don't want to admit that they were fooled.
What we pay in EU subs, less the cash that’s allocated back to UK is chicken feed compared to amount we spend across all the services (NHS, defence, education etc)
Did you benefit from EU working time rules, info on cleanliness of beaches?
And to say we have no input into EU laws is another plain lie
Who are you working for?
Second, freedom of movement. This is essential for engineers, consultants, musicians, lecturers, scientists, and anyone who works occasionally or on short contracts.
Third, agriculture. Most British lamb and mutton is sold on the Continent. If we have to compete on world markets, we're finished, because New Zealand and Australia can produce at much lower cost. The plan, post-Brexit, is to slaughter 3 million sheep because there will be no market for them.
Fourth, medicines. We don't manufacture insulin at all in Britain, and we can't suddenly start because you can't build the facilities for making it overnight. The same is true of many other drugs.
Not only do we have a say in EU law, we have been the instigators of most of it, including the Single Market. What you have said there is plain ridiculous.
There isn't a lot of point in going on with this, of course, because it's all out there and you haven't paid any attention to it, or you've dismissed it as Project Fear because you don't want to admit you're wrong. In short, you can't argue with a closed mind.
Boris was so wrong yesterday. We were known as the “mother of all Parliaments”,we are now the laughing stock of the world..
And ... how has Britain benefitted ... open doors to invaders who have come with ONE intention, to make Britain part of an islamic caliphate. People who OPENLY state this FACT ... freedom has gone down the chute.
Christians are vilified and arrested. People who speak out are arrested. The very group raping murdering and grooming our children are "protected".
Murderers are now given a slap on the wrist. Paedophiles are now allowed to co tinue their destruction of children unabated. Crime has gone through the roof. Cost of living has gone sky high, whilst the standard of living has slid into the gutter.
The only people to benefit from the "free movement" are those with money, who could take their dogs "skiing" ... lol.
I fail to see any sign of "prosperity" in Britain, unless you are talking of how since the Brexit decision, more British people are working. Other than that, under the EU I have watched salaries get repressed, work be sent out of the cou try to places where cheap "slave labour" is allowed, resulting i
More people here battlingto find work. People who can be bothered are now actually concerned with the rampant rising crime rates.
Well done Boris.
But trade will be on far worse terms for us. Not only that, but we are throwing away the trading arrangements we currently have, as an EU member state, with the whole of the rest of the world. We will have to start again from scratch, and every other state we deal with will be seeking to take advantage of our isolation by dictating the terms of any new deal we make. They will be looking for a better deal than they have with us as a member of the EU; that means better for them, not better for us.
Of course, our EU partners regret that we are doing this and they will feel some practical loss. But for them it will be a blip and they will quickly replace any markets lost as they will continue to have continuity in their relationships with each other and with the rest of the world. Far more important to them than a new deal with us is to maintain the integrity of the EU's institutions. The idea that they "need us more than we need them" is a fiction.
2. It is proven that the Leave campaigns were substantially and illegally funded, therefore the resulting figures were not a true representation.
3. It is wrong to believe that the Leave vote covered 'no deal'; Withdrawal Agreement is written in to the implementation of Article 50.
4. Nobody blinks at the idea of a General Election to vote in a complete change of Government every five years or less, when circumstances call for such action; so it is not unreasonable to put this decision back to the people, regardless of the reasons why it has taken so long.
I am fed up having 17.4m rammed into my ears; the other side of that, rarely mentioned, is 29m who did not vote to leave. Ignoring that figure is not democracy.
The following article is a couple of years old, but still wholly relevant:
https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/brexit/2016/10/24/brexit-is-not-the-will-of-the-british-people-it-never-has-been/
As for Corbyn I would not trust him with my cat let alone the country. He would have been a caretaker government that went on and on and on. Boris is implementing the democratic result of the vote taken in 2016. It is the will of the people that nobody thwarts democracy.
Why can’t they see the hardship and damage they are doing to our country by continually trying to stop Brexit, which was democratically voted for. They are the traitors not Boris. Loads will loose there seats at next election because they only won them on lies saying they would respect the result of of the vote and back our choice to leave. Only to get there seat and vote to remain. How can they even be allowed to hold on to there seats there should be a by-election. If they don’t want to represent there constituents and uphold what they voted for it’s simple resign your seat
Another election is on the cards and there days of walking all over there voters & treating them as thick, silly, simple people to thick to understand what we voted for are almost over. They will never retain there seats and the sooner they are gone the better. Anna Soubry Oliver Letwin Neil parish to name but a few. Letwin knows his days are numbered he isn’t even standing again thank god.
Here is to holding our nerve and letting democracy win out and leaving the EU on the 31/13/19..
God Save The Queen and Our Country.
At the end of the day we voted out and we should be out. Why wouldn’t I trust him? I also trusted May which turned out to be a mistake. But at least a leaver is in charge now not a traitor.
The cries of "undemocratic" and "misuse" of procedure are laughably hypocritical. coming from Bercow and Corbyn. That both Corbyn and the Liberals wrote to the Queen shows their shocking lack of political awareness but was not surprising. The most disgusting news was that Soubry had also written to the Queen, how low is this harridan prepared to go for publicity? She has no party, no mandate, no career and no hope. She is a disgrace to all the fine women who fought for a voice with their abilities.
I have not been involved in politics for many years but would do everything possible to make life for those who forced us to accept a MINORITY vote as difficult as possible.
So you want your kids to have no say in the running of the Country?
So you want your kids to grow up in poverty because all our hard-earned taxes are going to the EU?
Name the benefits of staying in the EU, that couldn't have been achieved by being a free country, please.
Several EU countries have voting systems that give their citizens far better representation than does our FPTP system.
How do the child poverty figures compare with Denmark's or Sweden's? -- it is not the EU that lives off the backs of workers; it is CEOs, directors, billionaires who are protected by British/City of London legislation.
As for your last point, perhaps. But, sticking to known facts, the European Working Time Directive was the biggest boost to workers' rights that I saw in my working life; and American companies are already rubbing their hands at the possibility of trading with a UK with reduced food labelling requirements, for example.
He probably promised all over worked NHS staff a pay rise and our doctors a drop in 100 plus hours a week, you know Boris he never lies lol......
FPTP could possibly be improved on with a PR system, but the politicians have to follow through the majority vote of their constituents, which is not happening at the moment,
EWTD has been improved on by our government and not the EU, Remember we rubber-stamp all the new directives from the EU, and choose whether to accept them or not. We are a market leader in EWDT.
Child poverty is a thing we or any other country will never eradicate. Sadly the priorities of our younger generation have changed the dynamics of Family life, and no amount of money being thrown into charities etc. is going to alter this fact.
Reduced food labelling? Why do we have the British Standards Agency, if you are saying the EU is responsible for giving us a better standard, Again the British food agency is held in strong regard worldwide, and has enhanced the EU directative.
On a final note, we do not have to consume any product or accept any product we do not want, No sale makes it disapear.!
The CSDP involves military or civilian missions being deployed to preserve peace, prevent conflict and strengthen international security in accordance with the principles of the United Nations Charter."
Also see: https://fullfact.org/online/EU-army-conscription/
Child poverty: the Danish comparison is enough to show the absurdity of your suggestion that our child poverty is a result of EU taxes.
From Harvard.edu: On the Rebound: Prospects for a US-UK Free Trade Agreement.
NON-TARIFF AND REGULATION
"Potential benefits in sectors like financial services are unlikely to be realised; concessions to US demands are politically fraught."
"USA will expect concessions on sectors like food, digital and healthcare. Likely to concede little. "
As for Boris I hope he surprises us all and gets us the deal of the century, but I guess I will dream on as Boris does not live in the real world as he was born with the silver spoon in his mouth.
So I guess we will have to agree to disagree on certain things. I hope you and your family have a wonderful weekend.
Baby shortage: hmm... no bad thing. Anyway, I did my bit, but no more now!
The People Voted to Leave the EU 3 Years ago.
We are now going to Leave 31st October.
Boris is Prime Minister and also a Leaver.
I voted along with others to Leave.
We were alright when we didn't belong to the EU
Boris suspending Parliament is the only way that we can leave the EU.
Why should we put up with all the other Politicians always trying to block us.
The remainers lost and don't like it
Leave means Leave.
Britain is not the country it was a 100 years ago when we had an empire it has got smaller and smaller, now even Scotland and Wales does not want to be part of the UK.
Do you honestly think any politician cares about the people of this country?
The democratic vote was leave, a deal was not a vision of a brexiteer, this has been proven at least 3 times, politicians invoked Art 50, and voted to uphold the vote.
Wee Nicola has never wanted to be part of Britain, but is willing to take the handouts, and run a deficit, which no doubt our hard-earned taxes will have to cover.
Have you looked at the landholdings of Great Britain, try googling it, I think you will be very surprised.
The people of Wales voted unanimously to leave the EU, This is just politicians not upholding the mandate they were given.
What are you so frightened of?
I fear for the younger generation that could not vote. Everybody knows and understands that the majority of people that voted to leave the EU voted on immigration, that is a fact.
Ask yourself this when the immigrants have gone home who is going to run the hospitals, pick the fruit and veg, clean offices & hospitals they do a lot of the jobs that people in this county won't do. Who is going to care for the elderly, there is already a crisis in care now !!!
It seems like the people who are negative towards my comment are also fearful of a democratic peoples vote on if we should leave with a deal or no deal. I have said if people voted to leave now knowing fully what they were voting for then I would certainly agree with that as would many others. When we voted to be part of the EEC in 1975 which was won by a democratic vote of 67.2% to 32.8% that was supposed to be a one time vote only back then. So people chop and change their minds when it suits, as again this was a one time vote only. The difference back then everybody knew what they were voting for, where now nobody knew if there would be a deal or no deal and what the consequences would be. Look at what is happing in the car industry and all the jobs being lost, there are more industries that are loosing money and jobs because of this. Those jobs won't come back to this country, we have been sold down the river by government after government.
When we vote for our politicians we are supposed to believe in them and believe that they will do the right thing by the country. The UK public did not democratically vote for Boris to be the Primeminister. At present our political system is so poor that it is like the USA, Trump or Clinton, except it is Boris or Corbyn, none of them worthy of a vote.
I do not think Boris is a savour of Brexit, and we will leave the EU, but I think he may have a very good chance of getting the right deal for Britain, and all the actions of the Remain party were and are the cause of the EU digging their proverbial heel and insisting on Mays Withdrawal agreement, we can do so much better than become a servant of the EU.
We did not vote to be part of the EEC, we voted to join the Single market as such for the sole purpose of trading, We were taken further into the EU by unscrupulous politicians, who rubber-stamped everything without consulting the British Public.
Brexiteers are not fearful of a Peoples Vote, but Peoples Vote's aim is to achieve us remaining in the EU and undemocratic.
The car industry is failing, due to May's insistence on Electric cars, and are moving out of Britain, to obtain Markets in more lenient countries.
Our system does not give us the vote of a Prime minister, and never has, that is up to the Party and their members to appoint and remove. The majority voted the conservative party as the best party for Britain, and remember Labour left a very large deficit I agree with you we do not have a party in a powerful position to please all the people all the time, and as long as we have parties with diverse ideology, we will win some and lose some, that's democracy. and usually works quite well, but sadly as I said before Politicians today are not thinking of the good for the country, they are thinking what the country can do for them.
Stop living in the past this is not the Great Britain of old when it had an empire and we were well thought of around the world. I want our young people to have a future and under Boris Johnston there is not future not that Boris cares.
I think our MP’s & the EU have had more than long enough to negotiate. It they haven’t reached any agreements by now they never will. It’s just a pity they didn’t do as much heart searching before they shoved us in the EU.
The country needs to move on now & get on with whatever leaving the EU brings.
So many distraught people are still worrying about their EU holidays & wether they will need a visa or not! I mean how hard is it to get a visa.
On a more serious note, businesses need to know what they are doing & we need to get world wide trade deals in place. There will be short term inconveniences in leaving, of course there will be, & the BBC & other news stations will love to point it out to us every step of the way.
The sooner we leave & deal with any fall out that transpires, , the sooner the economy & peoples spirits with lift.
I’m old enough to have seen that we have been loosing jobs & industry for decades, nothing to do with Brexit, but it did seem to happen after we joined the EU & most of our industry moved abroad.
As for Boris stabbing everyone in the back, well I suppose Labours last term in office was a great success taking us into a war that was none of our business & leaving the country bankrupt.
I was brought up by elderly grandparents who lived through two world wars & also knew what true hardships were, they had no NHS & no benefits & no food banks. If you didn’t work you didn’t eat, if you couldn’t afford a doctor you died & Christmas was alway a very poor affair. My grandad had to work till his mid 70’s & I had to leave school at 15 & work a 40 hour week because no one could afford to keep me on at school. As a working class kid had no hope of going to university like they do today
I think people today don’t really know what true poverty is & expect the government (whoever is in power) to cover the cost of everything from paying for their child care, much longer maternity leave than we could only of dreamed of, including the father if there is one. Some families around me are now on their third generation of none workers & in truth they have as much as me. They don’t work not because of lack of jobs, but mostly because of addiction problems of one kind or another or lack of desire to work, I suppose that’s the governments fault too!
As for worrying about affording their mortgages, you are talking to a woman who had to sell her house when the interest rates rose to over 15% at the beginning of the 90’s, again nothing to do with Brexit but we were in the EU, maybe it was their fault.
I just think it’s time people stopped blaming either the Conservatives or Brexit for all their problems, we’ve always had hard times as well as good, the poor have always been poor & rightly or wrongly always will wether we are in the EU or not. People need to get a bit of backbone & stop expecting that life will always be good, but at the same time stop always forecasting doom & gloom & Armageddon if we leave. We will survive, but the country as a whole will do far better the quicker this is sorted & the clowns in Parliament stop playing the blame game & just get on with it!
If there is not a no deal (which is not a no deal but WTO deal) to fall back on you have no negotiating position. You will just have to accept what you're given which will be what the EU want not us.
The way the EU has treated our government in the 3 years shows their contempt of individual countries free will.
Boris is enabling his own career as he sees it the will of the country comes second to his own interests.
Come the next election it will be very hard to vote for any particular party,but vote we must it is our only option.
Outsmarted those who have done nothing but try to thwart Brexit at every opportunity.
Well done Boris.
By doing what TM did in deciding to Brexit, she has NOT just screwed employment up in the UK, when Home Secretary, with a £30,000 limit on salary for immigrant workers from early 2016, which is why the NHS, as an example business, has had its staff needs go from under 75,000 in early 2016 to now OVER 150,000, of which 50,000+ are nurses and 10,000+ are doctors, and, of course, with the dumb statements and posters by Leave about immigrants, and the racial effect that has caused since, many immigrant workers also left due to that and fewer now wish to come, when, due to MUCH HIGHER birth rates in the UK to 1974, than from 1975, from 1993, to likely 2039+, THE UK doe NOT HAVE enough UK born younger people EACH YEAR to replace the FAR HIGHER number of older people that retire, so immigrants WORKING has been how the needed employment level in the UK has been maintained, and, from 2009 to 2016, were the years when the Baby Boomers, born in their highest years of birth, were all retiring, so A LARGE GAP OF NEEDED WORKERS AND WHY NET IMMIGRATION IN THE YEARS TO 2015 WERE IN THE 300,000’S, SOMETHING DUMB DUMB TM JUST COULD NOT GET HER HEAD AROUND, AND DID WHAT SHE DID IN EARLY 2016, BELIEVING NET IMMIGRATION COULD JUST BE IN 10’S OF THOUSANDS, when would NEVER be that until 2040 or after, so, in now OVER 3 years, the UK is short of about 1 million working people MORE than it could have been, if TM had the knowledge she should have had to be Home Secretary, instead, not having ANY, she has just left behind one well screwed up Home Office, given police situation, the Windrush and MORE issues, etc, she THEN SCREWED UP WITH NO CHECKS WHATSOEVER BEING DONE TO ENSURE, GIVEN THE CRAZY BASIS FOR ACCEPTING THE EU REFERENDUM RESULT, TO MAKE SURE THAT THE UK AND FOR PEOPLE IN IT A SAFE BREXIT COULD EVER BE DONE, AND, TO BE CLEAN, NEEDS EVERY LAST ARRANGEMENT, AND THE EU IS IN OVER 600 AGREEMENTS, CAN EASILY BE CARRIED FORWARD FOR THE UK TOO, ONCE OUTSIDE THE EU, AS COVER ALL SORTS OF SITUATIONS, WITH JUST 3 COVERING HOW WE TRADE AND MOVE IN AND OUT OF THE UK BY RAIL THROUGH CHANNEL TUNNEL, BY SEA FROM PORTS AND BY AIR, AND, WITH ANY OR ALL 3 NOT PROPERLY IN PLACE, ON DAY 1 OF BREXIT, THE UK SHUDDERS TO A DEAD HALT!!!!!!
By the time TM ceased as PM, and still happening now, for the immigration workers fiasco ALONE, it is costing incremental £BILLIONS a year to the UK government, the NHS and Elderly Care, etc, could all be benifiting from, and alongside that, BREXIT is cost MORE £BILLIONS A YEAR, due to the continual LOSS of so so many companies, wholly or in some part, to the EU or elsewhere, where the taxes from them and people who worked for them is now being LOST AS WELL, more that could have been used by the NHS, and other needing parts of what the UK government FUND!!!!!
I totally agree with your second answer. What kind of politicians do we have in this country? I too despair of the choices we are offered in this country. Politics is now an exercise in choosing the least bad option. There hasn’t been a party that I can identify with for many years, I’m a middle class, self employed, white, heterosexual male living in the North east of England. I feel every party despises me and at best sees me as a useful source of tax income which needs to be squeezed dry.
The scholar wrote: “The House can in accordance with the constitution be deprived of power [when] there is fair reason to suppose that the opinion of the House is not the opinion of the electors.”
We voted out, the Remoaners can't accept it, rock on Boris.
Over the last 3 years we have had ample time to debate , now the EU are being intransigent , unwilling to renegotiate a better , more acceptable deal , the backstop part of the deal is unacceptable as it would have interfered with the sovereign integrity of the UK and leaving the irish border as is with trade flowing freely across the border is unacceptable to the EU/Ireland , so after 3 long years the time for discussion is over.
Unfortunately some from the remain camp wish to show our hand at every turn to the EU negotiators giving them the upper hand in negotiations , so this is the reason to prorogue parliament.
The time to act , after 3 long years , is here.
GO BORIS !