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Is recognising ‘gender neutral’ going to get complicated?

The gender-neutral Mx. is used as a title for those who do not identify as being of a particular gender, or for people who simply don’t want to be identified by gender.

Pronounced to sound like mix or mux, the title Mx. is used increasingly on various official forms in the UK, including driver’s licenses and banking documents.

A new “gender neutral” school uniform policy has been introduced across the UK. 80 state schools including 40 primaries, have introduced gender-neutral policies allowing girls to wear trousers (which, beyond the school gate, many of us have been doing for at least a century) and boys to wear skirts. The move is part of a government-funded drive to support LGBT+ children in schools and be more open to children questioning their gender or sexual identity.

So what do you think? Does a primary school child have the maturity to truly question their gender identity? Most children like dressing up and pretending to be other people and a few may go through a phase of wanting to be someone else, including being a boy/girl, but changing your gender identity is a deeply complex issue. Teaching about tolerance and discrimination is important.

What are your views on our changing society? Do you have concerns about the move towards a gender neutral society or are you happy to embrace it?

Is recognising 'gender neutral' going to get complicated?

166 people have already voted, what's your opinion? Yes No

What are your views?

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anf
19th Aug 2016
1
Thanks for voting!
You are either xx or xy so stick with it.
JudiCat63
15th Jul 2016
0
Thanks for voting!
Why should we always go the GENDER SPECIFIC route?
Why not eye colour?
Length of eye lashes?
Yes it's stupid but so is making all of this an issue.
We can have loos for anyone - after all, I am disabled & I have to share my disabled toilet with whatever has gone before - often not a disabled person! But no one thinks about that do they? They stop at male & female. Be disabled for a week - wracked in pain, forgetting things due to the illness - think about who else has shared Sainsbury's (put whoever you shop at) disabled loo before you - I wipe the seat down, & get on with business
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Children growing up now will not only be free to be WHOM they want to be, but will be far better at many things that are being discussed in this issue!

Just stop making it an issue - live & let live!
jeanmark
4th Jul 2016
0
Thanks for voting!
Sorry lagarto, I know have this picture of a pious female standing in a female public loo demanding people show their genitals before they are allowed in.
seasidenannie
29th Jun 2016
1
Thanks for voting!
I agree with Annie 2406, there is no way that I want to use a public toilet only to find some male standing in the queue next to me. Also I think school's should not let 'gender confused pupils' use the toilet of the sex opposition to which is on their birth certificate. If my children were still young enough to be at school I would not want them to share a toilet with some one of the opposite sex, nor do I wish this for my grand children.
AnnHar1
1st Jul 2016
4
Thanks for voting!
That is silly, we already use unisex toilets here and abroad. I go to several excellent restaurants in Manchester where this is the case and it has never caused me a problem. I am almost 70 so don't believe that it is just a new fangled idea to worry us !! Its the media blowing things up out of all proportion and causing issues where there are none just more bigotry
jeanmark
4th Jul 2016
1
Thanks for voting!
Well seasidenannie, when I was at primary school (obviously many years ago) there were no gender specific loos, just loos which we all used without problem!
seasidenannie
4th Jul 2016
0
Thanks for voting!
I was at school many years ago now, the only mixed school I went to was the infants school, and yes we all used the same outdoors toilet, at that age back then no one took any notice, however in this day and she there is no need for anyone to use the toilet of the opposite gender! I certainly would not have wanted to share a toilet block with boys at junior or secondary school, there are some things we just do not need to share no matter what our age!
seasidenannie
4th Jul 2016
-1
Thanks for voting!
This is the UK, there is no need for us to share our toilets with the opposite sex, it does not matter what is done abroad. As for there being toilets in Manchester that are mixed, it must have changed a lot since I was last there but then that was many years ago when I was young. I, for one would object to queuing to use the toilet along side people of the opposite gender. However as I am disabled these days I do use toilets for both sexes, but it is rare that we, the disabled, have to queue to use them. I would however in able bodied toilets be very weary of sharing a toilet block with members of the opposite gender. I do have members of my family who are gay and one who is a cross dresser, I have no problem with any of this, I just don't wish to share a public toilet with the opposite gender. I have been in holiday in the South of France many years ago, and 'no' I was not comfortable sharing a toilet and shower block while there.
Annie2406
29th Jun 2016
-4
Thanks for voting!
To follow on, I would find it totally unacceptable to find myself in a ladies loo next to a hairy bloke in a frock.
lagarto
4th Jul 2016
1
Thanks for voting!
why? there are plenty of unattractive people who use loos. Maybe someone else would be uncomfortable standing next to you while they are washing their hands. You might be one of the people others are uncomfortable with. Get used to it. People are what they are, leave them alone and get on with your life not being so judgemental.
Annie2406
29th Jun 2016
-2
Thanks for voting!
Look, if you have a Y chromosome you're a male. If you don't, you're a female. End of. If someone feels something is not right or they'd just prefer to be something else, the problem is psychological and there is help out there for that. In the meantime, let's just have Ladies and Gents toilets as we always have. Why do we have to constantly have to pander to vocal minorities? Get over yourselves.
jeanmark
30th Jun 2016
3
Thanks for voting!
Annie2406, if only life was that simple and surely in this day and age we can be a little more understanding and tolerant of people who feel they are different than what gender their chromosomes show. Public toilets tend to have private cubicles so I have no problem standing in a queue next to a hairy man wearing a dress as long as she doesn't want to share the toilet with me, but then I wouldn't want to share the toilet with anyone else either.
Annie2406
30th Jun 2016
-3
Thanks for voting!
I am generally tolerant and extremely understanding as befits a psychologist, but we are talking about a very tiny minority here and, if we go down the road of changing every little thing to accommodate every minority stance, it will all become a complete farce. I have every sympathy with gender-confused people but the world cannot and must not revolve around them to the disadvantage of the vastly bigger majority. I use a wheelchair but I don't expect the world to grind to a halt to accommodate me. Or should I demand they put a stair-lift up every mountain in the UK just so I can get up there and admire the view?
jeanmark
30th Jun 2016
2
Thanks for voting!
As a psychologist you must have seen the pain and distress some of these people experience. As a nurse (now retired) I have cared for those going through the agony of surgical gender re-assignment, but like you I don't believe we should give in to every minority group and have already stated where public toilets are concerned 'unisex' should address any problems. I do believe we must try and understand the direction people are coming from but do feel 'gender-neutral' is possibly a step too far. My point was it isn't just about whether you are XY or XX.
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Interestingly you state you use a wheelchair and should maybe demand they put a stair-lift up every mountain in the UK just so you can get up there and admire the view. My only demand is for facilities to be provided in public toilets so that people with special needs do not have to have their nappy changed on a public toilet floor. I accept that has nothing to do with gender neutrality and is possibly considered a minority issue and therefore maybe shouldn't be addressed to the disadvantage of the vastly bigger majority.
Annie2406
30th Jun 2016
1
Thanks for voting!
Jeanmark, I'm sorry if I've come across as aggressive, it certainly wasn't meant. What we need is far more respect and tolerance and love for our fellow human beings. My solution to this issue is that more people be allowed to use the disabled toilets, which are gender neutral anyway, to give anyone, whatever their circumstances, privacy and dignity at all times.
celtwitch
30th Jun 2016
3
Thanks for voting!
Rather odd comments from a psychologist, and I find your mountain stair lift equivalence with gender dysphoria quite disturbing, coming as it did from a professional.
jeanmark
30th Jun 2016
0
Thanks for voting!
Thank you Annie2406 and I agree that we need more respect and tolerance. However, the issue I raised isn't about access to disabled toilets, gender neutral or not, it is having no facility to change a nappy other than that provided for babies/toddlers which are not designed for anyone older. My 19 year old granddaughter is special needs and wheelchair bound, she doesn't have the ability to stand and it would be physically impossible for her to sit on a toilet. She is not alone, a large number of special needs older children/teenagers/adults have to wear a nappy but are unable to change it when away from their home unless they are laid on a public toilet floor. There is no privacy and dignity in this situation.
AnnHar1
1st Jul 2016
3
Thanks for voting!
But its not as simple as that !! my friends child was born with both male and female organs for instance!! The choice had to be made as to whether the child would be male or female!! what if they made mistake ? and everything about the child proved to be the opposite to what was chosen ?? So later in life they decide to reverse that choice of which they had no control and the bigots (male or female) say what you are saying? As a matter of fact I know some transsexuals that are a lot prettier than some women born as women do how do you judge who is what ? Would you know the difference or would you be side eyeing everyone?
seasidenannie
1st Jul 2016
-2
Thanks for voting!
Well said Annie 2406
seasidenannie
1st Jul 2016
0
Thanks for voting!
Again well said Annie 2406, I to am disabled and as such we do gender share public toilets, I have no proplem with this, however I do object to the possibility that my daughters and granddaughters having to queue along side men dressed as women while needing to use a cubical. I know these people mean no harm, indeed my ex husband is a cross dresser, (still in the closet about this)so know perhaps better than most. This still does not mean that I want my daughters and granddaughters queueing next to someone of birth opposite gender.
lagarto
4th Jul 2016
1
Thanks for voting!
nobody is saying that world needs to revolve around anyone, even if you seem to think it must revolve around your own perspective. Just to stop judging people. end of. this is silly.
Jennifer Hill
29th Jun 2016
2
Thanks for voting!
If someone is dressed as a woman use the Ladies if they are dressed as a man use the Gents. They can always wait for a cubicle if there is any issues. Why highlight the fact you are transgender unless you want to highlight it.
MorrisandDoris
28th Jun 2016
0
Thanks for voting!
New name for AC/DC people !
Wilf
27th Jun 2016
5
Thanks for voting!
We should all respect and love our fellow human beings-full stop!
celtwitch
30th Jun 2016
1
Thanks for voting!
The voice of reason, thank you Wilf.
Wilf
19th Jul 2016
0
Thanks for voting!
Thanks celtwitch...if we all had a bit more love and respect for each other we could have a near perfect world. there are too many small minded bigots and nutters out there with a chip on their shoulders
jeanmark
26th Jun 2016
1
Thanks for voting!
I don't have a problem with gender neutrality but I thought 'unisex' public toilets covered everyone. I would just be happy if facilities were provided that allowed me to change my 19 year old special needs granddaughters nappy in a more appropriate area other than on a public toilet floor.
celtwitch
26th Jun 2016
0
Thanks for voting!
I think the 'gender neutral' people are nothing short of attention seeking malcontents.
They probably justify their life style by reasoning that because they couldn't hack it as a man, and as they lack the courage to transition into a woman, they can own the middle ground by claiming to be gender neutral.
I wonder what Bernard Manning would have made of this?
Barbara58
27th Jun 2016
4
Thanks for voting!
You're a bit of a disgrace to Witches and Celts really aren't you.
And, by the way, who on earth cares what the disgusting, vile, foul mouthed, despicable Manning would have thought.
Christine59
26th Jun 2016
1
Thanks for voting!
I have no problem with it. In getting on with day to day life, public transport, public restaurants, public shopping, it doesn't matter what your gender is. what makes public toilets any different?
celtwitch
25th Jun 2016
0
Thanks for voting!
I wonder what will come next,'racially neutral?'
Barbara58
27th Jun 2016
0
Thanks for voting!
And it gets worse.
you really are a nasty person and I'm considering flagging your inappropriate (not the correct spelling Ed) horrid rantings, or leaving Silversurfers!
celtwitch
27th Jun 2016
-2
Thanks for voting!
Some people really are very tetchy, aren't they?
0
Thanks for voting!
Thank you for pointing out our spelling error .. it has been corrected 😉

We are huge advocates of freedom of speech and opinion Barbara, and here is a link to our guidelines for you to refer to. https://www.silversurfers.com/silversurfers-forum-guide/

I have checked the comments flagged and feel that our guidelines have not been contravened. It's great to have mixed views on our forums .. that is what Speakers Corner is all about. I respect your concerns and hope you continue to enjoy some of our less controversial Speakers Corner debates. Best wishes, Sally
Pam1960
25th Jun 2016
2
Thanks for voting!
I don't see anything wrong with it. I do not know how it feels to be gender neutral but I don't see why it should be a problem fir anyone who isn't
celtwitch
24th Jun 2016
0
Thanks for voting!
There are two genders, male and female, and nothing is going to change that. Although, some people undergo gender reassignment so that they then feel comfortable in the gender that they identify with.
But, this 'gender neutral' thing is quite puzzling when gender is determined by hormones, chromosomes and identity: so how can someone claim to be gender neutral?
Are we pandering to the whims of people with psychological disorders?
Marley444
23rd Jun 2016
3
Thanks for voting!
I find I can't keep up with all the changes in society. Is it me, or are all these developments getting increasingly hard to get your head around? I do think that the most important thing is that a person is happy and content being who they want to be. The younger generation seem so readily accepting of anything and everything, and I think it takes us oldies a little more time to become accustomed to these changes in society.
JohnHerb
23rd Jun 2016
4
Thanks for voting!
The world is getting more complicated so yes it is another interesting development but GB is a very tolerant society and the vast majority of people here are accepting of others. Who cares if people are neither male or female but a middle gender-I don't for one and all we should care about is having happy fellow citizens in a live and let live society. It does make for an interesting future!

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