Should Britain stay in the EU or is now the time to leave?

The UK public voted for in or out, this included all the MPs and members of the Lords, the majority voted to LEAVE, the extremely undemocratic events in the law courts show how MONEY wins when it comes to the law, the Judges have all voted once now they do as they are told by the MONEY people such as the Virgin boss, this raise's the point of the growing swell of people calling for a boycott of all Virgin brands, which I have supported by ending my Virgin phone package. I digress, I read that in the small print of the vote rules, from memory article 19 it states the result is full and final unless challenged within 6 weeks, it was not so I question the ethics of the law, it seems as long as it is the result go's for the 'elite's' wishes then all is OK but if it go's against well they have the financial clout to get it changed one way or another. This is what happened to the Irish and brother are they paying the cost for it, they have been screwed good and proper, we MUST NOT allow this to happen to us, we MUST leave. Remember all the forecasts by the so called 'elites' how bad things were about to get?, well unemployment is down, more and more business's are relocating into the UK, countries at present dealing with the EU have expressed interest in trading with the UK, the pound is creeping up after what can only be called 'a manipulated' plunge, remember the 'fat finger'? should it read the 'purchased finger' I think so, there is far to much corruption at the top. Keep strong, do not allow them to grind us down, we said LEAVE so we mean just that. Once were out all the moronic rules go out of the window, did you know for example you can under EU law, be prosecuted for cutting your hedges before mid summer?(I believe it is 1st August) I found this out when asking for mine to be done, due to the back up in others waiting it was September before I got mine done(I am disabled), our trawlers can fish our own waters without interference, anglers will not be breaking the law by catching more than 2 sea bass, I could go on and on, we MUST LEAVE before our NHS is taken over by Europe(they have passed a law which would FORCE us to break it up. Don't listen to all the moaners who conveniently forget what the word democracy means.

David Cameron stated in the run up to the referendum that if the vote was in favour of "out" he would initiate Article 50 the following morning. Instead he spat his dummy out, resigned and went scuttling off to the back benches. Just shows how much you can trust politicians!

Article 50 should have been signed, sealed and delivered and we should have been out by now

Despite problems and disagreements with the E U the biggest mistake this country has ever made is opting out. This silver surfer certainly did NOT vote out.
We shall certainly have time to repent at leisure .

Well us silver surfers have done the deed and we should be very happy that once again we can be free from the mess that is developing in the EU

I believe some still think we have an empire Long gone, we are a tiny nation i agree a great one but still tiny. As part of the EU we punch well above our weight. I think being in the EU was ok far from perfect with to many officials, but we could have worked on it.
Now we have Brexit, but what the hell is it??, The majority voted for an unknown deal/future no-one knows what the hell it will be?, our parliament has no say on the deal just one person Fuhrer May will decide. What happened to democracy & common sense all we got was an uncertain deal WE have no say in. I speak as an ex lifelong tory voter who is appalled at the loss of Democracy under a conservative government, and with no opposition to oppose them.

RTC, I have been reading your comments and I'm afraid to say I think you are a fraud ! If you are an oldie and if you aren't aligned to a political party your cognitive ability should make you at least 25yrs old :+)

I believe that the EU is also ...one world~~~globelization that type of one universe.. We are America , land of the free & brave founded under God with Liberty & justice for all.. Globalization is against that thinking. We used to be one with Britian then broke away.. Now Britian has the opportunity to break away from the EU.. It is my belief that they should take their possessions, money and stand as individuals.

Maggie Thatcher had to fight every year for a reduction on the accounts , we have no one of that calibre to look after our interests now.

France was awarded Agriculture and Spain awarded Fish. Both were a bitter blow for us , gone are Granny Smith apples , the quality of Apples available now is poor, as are English Strawberries.

The quality of vegetables is poor too ., gone are King Edward and the like.

Cameron, while trying to get some concessions from the EU to stay in the EU lent the EU 1 million Euros "ringfenced" as Osborne was quick to point out. This at a time when the NHS is broke and the Steel Industry facing closure.

I feel 1.5% majority is not enough for such an important decision.

Markus Kerber, head of the highly influential BDI, which represents German industry, has said that his organisation will press politicians in Europe hard to make sure businesses in the UK and the EU retain full, equal access to each other's markets after Lexit. Anything less would threaten jobs on both sides and serve no-one – least of all the Eurozone, which is in desperate trouble.
This intervention, which confirms what Leave campaigners have being saying for a long time, is a huge game changer, and should reassure voters that British businesses have everything to gain and nothing to lose if we strike out from the EU as an independent, self-governing democracy with full powers to enhance our trading opportunities worldwide.

Judging by the consistent level of thumbs downticks I know that my views are not those held by most other Silversurfers.

What I do not understand is the very strongly held view that the UK would be better off outside of the EU.

Maybe it is immigration. Both the Leave campaign and the Remain campaign were on the TV last night and they both strongly supported immigration. Neither side had a plan for reducing immigration. Without immigration, we all know that the NHS, care homes, and public services would fail. So it cannot be that.

Maybe its is the economy. But in EU membership, we have become the 5th strongest economy in the world and the 2nd strongest in the EU. On last night's TV, both Gove and Johnson agreed that voting to leave would drop us into recession triggering high unemployment and the misery that goes with being out of work. So it cannot be that.

Maybe it is security. But both sides agree that NATO, the USA, the Commonwealth Countries and all the EU countries say we are safer in membership of the EU. So it cannot be that.

Maybe it is sovereignty. But the only areas where we have given up singular UK decision making is in things like air traffic control, security, health and safety, pollution control, scientific research and no one is saying we should change those things. So it cannot be that.

Maybe it is Boris. He is a very good speaker but as we witnessed last night he never gives facts he just does some very clever rabble rousing. He does it with his little boy lost body language and a child little stutter. But even my granny could have seen through that performance and level of insincerity. So it cannot be that, well I hope not.

Reading though Silversurfers posts from other members I get the impression that we are all very nervous about the future. The things we have always taken for granted such as cheque books, post offices, DHS, and pubs are all disappearing and it makes us feel that life is being changed without asking us if this is what we want.

It could be that many people think that by voting to Leave we will somehow stop life moving so fast and changing so fast. That is not a sensible and realistic approach, we have to accept that life is changing very fast and the younger generations know how to live and work in this world and we do not.

We senior citizens must come to our senses. The world has changed and we have to hand over the future to the next generations, the generations in the future that will work and drive the economy and society forward.

Voting to leave the EU would hold back our children and hold back our grandchildren for years to come. The UK would become a historic backwater in the history of the world.

PS.
Farage has just backed out of the C4 debate that was scheduled for 9pm. Farage quoted family reasons.
Not sure what to make of this, maybe hop poisoning has overwhelmed him, or maybe a recognition that sharing a stage with clever intelligent people has led to a mental lack of confidence
Think of the future, think of the next generations and not just yourself.

Now it is up to you, just be sensible, do not take a risk on the future and vote to Remain.

Signing off as Roof Top Crow.

And thanks to the editorial team for being so patient with us

Ok rooftop, if you feel that you are able to obtain so much information from Google, I will look forward to see a short breakdown of GDP figures, in particular Greece who had their actual figures "massaged" by Brussels to assist them in obtaining membership.As we now know, trying to tie in different economies just does not work and never will. The Greek people now are experiencing extreme hardship due to the dreams of Germany in controling the whole of Europe [in time of course !]

Incidentally, if UK does leave, how will the EEC be able to make up the loss of our huge contribution [ the 3rd largest to the EEC ].This figure of course will be corrected by rooftop from information obtained from his favourite website !!
It's no wonder that all the heirachy from Europe want us in !!

No, It's your shabby outfit that will rig the vote.

You Gov has just published a poll.
64% of UKIP supporters believe that the vote will be rigged and about the same number say that Leave will win.
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Are they sayin that UKIP is rigging the polls. I think we need to be told.

When we, the English inhabitants of this country become the minority group, as we surely will.When our coffers run dry, will we still be besieged by immigrants ,who supposedly come here for
a better life, but cannot speak ,or understand English, but they do
know where the Benefits offices are.
Time to Vote for keeping out of the E .U.

A while back RoofTopCrow (RTC) derided a post on another Silversurfers forum that included material posted on a different social media site by one Betsy MacKay MA MSc. RTC posted that because Mrs MacKay had referred in one of her posts to her Christianity and her Christian beliefs she was somehow deluded and should not be taken seriously.

Having briefly scanned through many of the posts on this and another Silversurfers forum I believe that RTC is quite possible a Remain plant, an agent provocateur, who possibly is being primed with information by the Cameron/Osborne apparatchiks. He has made comments that do not stand up to scrutiny, for example he has said that all the Commonwealth countries want us to stay in, but Australia and New Zealand to name just two say we would be better off out.

He says he is 72 but then denigrates 'old' people, with the inference being that because people are old they have lost their marbles! He clearly states that old people don't know how business works these days and how much it has changed. Well I'm an old person who was once employed in 'traditional' industry,
I changed tack some 40 years ago and over those past years founded my own businesses. I have been part of the computer age and am still part of the digital age. I have friends and many acquaintances of a similar age and background and I can assure RTC that we are all well aware of the how the requirements of business have changed; we are well aware of the reality of who we are today, we are not stupid or backward looking.

I, like many others here, was fed a tissue of lies from politicians of all hues when the EEC or 'Common Market' was mooted and subsequently. Politicians who were well aware that the British public would have rebelled had we known the truth of what the Common Market was designed to transform into, hid their agenda to tie us into a united states of Europe led by Germany.

The EU was conceived, birthed and nurtured in lies. Jean Monnet one of the founding fathers of the EU stated that, ”Europe’s nations should be guided towards the superstate without their people understanding what is happening. This can be accomplished by successive steps, each disguised as having an economic purpose, but which will eventually and irreversibly lead to federation.”.

Dear Mr. Crow
You have written much about how 'old people' should feel, vote; - and not feel because we are too old to feel any sort of impact after! But we Do feel, just because it was our generation who got us into all this, and just because it is our own families who are to be affected.
You write "Sadly I have come to the conclusion that older people are not aware of how society works today and do not know what is possible in the world and what is not" HOW DARE YOU !

Britain should leave the EU

As we lead up to the Referendum the TV news stations are interviewing people in the street and asking people if they will vote to Leave or vote to Remain.
Typically they do this between 11am in the morning and 3pm in the afternoon. Inevitably the people they interview are not working because working people are not shopping in the middle of the day. The people being interviewed are almost always aged 65 or over and the majority say they will vote to leave.
These are people like me, in my 70s and an old person. Older people like me will not have to manage the result of the Referendum, we will not have to manage the chaos and decline that will follow a vote to leave. The chaos and decline that will follow voting leave will have to be managed by the younger generations, including those that have not yet started to work.
In the past couple of days, I have seen old people being interviewed on the TV. It quickly becomes clear that they do not understand how business and industry works nowadays and how much it has changed from when they worked.
When we all started to work it was all about industry, manufacturing and physical labour. Men worked and the majority of women worked as housewives. Nowadays most of our manufacturing and industry has gone, and it will not come back. Our strength is mainly in the service and technology sectors, and there are as many jobs and careers available for women as there are for men.
The older people being interviewed on TV talk about making our way in the world, talk about being the best in the world, talk about being independent, talk about our unique skills. All of this romantic nonsense is spoken as though it is the 1920’s and the world was just starting to open up to business and the UK could bring them exciting new products and work practices.
Sadly I have come to the conclusion that older people are not aware of how society works today and do not know what is possible in the world and what is not.
The cold hard reality is that the UK represents just 0.88% of the 7.4 billion people who live in the world. As members of the EU, we can and do fight above our own weight but if the UK votes to leave the EU we will slowly and very politely disappear.
Older people need to wake up to the reality of who we are today and not who we were in our past. The UK belongs to the younger generations, not older people like you and me. If us old people do nothing else we must leave behind a legacy of success and a bright future.
Older people like you and me do not want to be remembered as the generation that chose to vote leave, the generation that chose to pull up the drawbridge and the generation that chose to send the UK into obscurity.

I read all the articles, some useful information, but at the end of the day I will vote a very big NO because the thought of 'greater political union' horrifies me. Did we not fight 2 World Wars to stop German dominence?

I have looked at the very detailed replies from Roof Top, and it would appear that we have a "mole" in our midst ! Either declare yourself Sir, or tell us where and how you are able to obtain such detailed information, which is not available to the general public.

UKIP, Nigel Farage and the British fishing industry.

Nigel was on the lead fishing boat sailing up the Thames today in support of the Grimsby Fisherman and the UK fishing industry.

Nigel has been a member of the European Parliament Fisheries Committee for 3 years. In that 3 year period, there have been 42 meetings. During this same three period, there have been 3 major changes in the legislation.

The proposed changes were to do with giving the local fisherman a greater share of the quota.

Nigel attended just 3 times but chose not to vote.

It is not a secret, it costs £93 million a year. It does not cost the £300 million a year that was published as a fact by the Daily Excess.
This is a very brief resume of an ongoing historical situation.
At the beginning of the EC there was not enough room to meet in Luxembourg so they found some space in Strasbourg, France.

The European Parliament and all of its administration have been saying for years that they would like to move everything to Brussels and close down Strasbourg. But everybody has to agree to this move and France will not agree to this proposition.
Presumably, because they feel it would weaken the French position within the EU and create massive unemployment in Strasbourg.

I assume it is one of those situations where there has to be a yes vote from all of the member countries and as France will not agree then nothing can change.

The single country block is there as a safety measure. For example, if Turkey applied to join it would mean just one vote from a member country to stop them becoming members.

I love to read Top Crow, and most of his research is correct. But now and again the other side of the coin has to be covered.

Brussels to Strasbourg and back EVERY MONTH 550 people transported between the two destinations to vote on proposals from Brussels. How much does this cost - it's a secret !!

Can this waste ever be altered ? - No, was the comment from a Euro MP - reason, it's written into the constitution !!!

Euro Members of Parliament are elected. The UK has 73 elected Euro Members of Parliament. As UK citizens we voted them into place. There are 751 Euro Members of Parliament elected by the 28 member countries. They discuss and vote on all of the proposals that come out of EU Legislature.
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In the UK we have 790 members in the House of Lords. They were not elected by UK citizens. They can and do reject legislation voted on by the elected House of Commons.
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Fishing. If we leave the EU all fishermen from the rest of the EU and fishermen from all over the world will be able to come and fish in our territorial waters. We will have very little chance of stopping them.

When we first joined the Common Market it was to make it easier to trade between members, It was not intended for unelected Euro MPs to tell us what we can and cannot do or for their law courts to overturn sentences of our own law courts it has ruined our fishing industry so our fisherman are loosing their jobs If the EU went back to where we first joined I might vote to stay in but at the moment I'm voting out

well, i'm foreign, at least my dad was.so i guess my views aren't worth much, still, better Europe than America, unless you want 'ho*eland Security running us

of course, we could do the Europeans a favor and leave..

I know which way I am voting and my reasons for this.
One question I would like to ask is, how are the votes going to work? Are they going to be counted by region, they way they are in elections so it's first past the post, or will it be every vote will be counted as an individual. I hope it's the latter.

The deciding factor for me is the fact that we will loose through NHS if we stay in EU.

I know that a lot of Silversurfers will find it uncomfortable but in the north of Europe we need the unemployed migrants from other parts of the EU to come and work in our factories, on our farms and in our service industries.

In northern Europe Germany has a massive problem with an ageing population and of course it is getting worse. Germany desperately needs immigrants from other parts of the EU to go and work there.

Our problem is different. The UK unemployment level is at just over 5% and can not go down any further. If we did not have the unemployed immigrants from the EU working in the UK, and that includes the NHS, our economy would fall into recession. In addition to keeping our economy buoyant immigrants paid £3.1 billion pounds in tax to the treasury which is 5 times more than they claim.

Get out and don't look back, be free of the corrupt EU..

Within the EU we have had a long term relationship that has created a strong economy and a stable society for the UK. It is not perfect, in fact it is far from perfect, but just like any other relationship you are better off staying in and fixing the problems rather than walking away.
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Unless you can absolutely guarantee that the UK will be better, and stronger by leaving this successful although somewhat flawed relationship with the EU you are better off voting to stay.

Ask yourself one simple question, who do you want running the country you live in. Your own elected government or someone from across the channel. For me the answer is easy, there is no contest and I find it hard to understand why anyone would want it any other way.

Because It's highly unlikely that any one from across the pond, controlling us, making the laws and decisions would be doing so in the best interest of the British people.

I really don't know ...yes or no....

The EU can't give us anything we haven't already got already. The scare tactics used by the 'remains' are unbelieveable.
Will no-one trade with us if we leave the EU, WW3 threatened -
Of course they will trade. We are one of the 7 biggest economies in the world and being members of the G7 proves that. We are also members of the G20, an even bigger organsation. We're in The league of Commonwealth of Nations which has our queen as their head, we're in NATO. These are worldwide organisations we are already in, so when they say we will be alone - They lie. WW3 will break out - They lie, we're in NATO - so are most the other members. EU members will not trade with us - they lie. Merc, BMW, Fiat, Citroen, Scania, Daf etc are all from EU countries and for a foreign committee to block them selling to us, puts their economy in danger and they won't do that. If we leave, there is a chance that there will be more jobs for more people in Britain.
The House of Commons cost analysis is a long read but it's worth it, it makes points for either side. One paragraph starts
"2 Cost-benefit analyses of EU membership
There is no definitive study of the economic impact of the UK’s EU membership, or
equivalently, the costs and benefits of withdrawal. Framing the aggregate impact in terms of
a single number, or even irrefutably demonstrating that the net effects are positive or
negative, is a formidably difficult exercise."

It's a PDF doc if you want to read it.
http://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/SN06730/SN06730.pdf

Personally I don't think it's worth giving up our sovereignty to a beaurocratic foreign committee to make decision for us.

The EU is not the Promised Land. Shipbuilding-Dead, Fishing-Dead, Coal-mining-Dead, British Leyland-Dead, Trains, Steel, Heath Service on life support, Rocketing House Prices, Rents going through the roof. Bankers getting Knighthoods and Bonuses, Immigrants in Mansions and Luxury houses, the British suffer bedroom tax, Sick and Dying made to work and some can't afford to bury their dead. Safer to remain? You mean, insane to remain! VOTE LEAVE.

Two reasons why I think we should leave the EU are:

1) As our economy grows, so will our payment to the EU. At a nett cost of approximately £10 billion per year now, what will it cost in future years. Think what we could spend that money on - don't forget, it is ours. We may pay £530m gross per week now and deduct our 'discount' before we send it (thanks to Maggie negotiating it for us), but the money we get back in funding etc., can only be spent on the things the EU tell us we can spend it on and it is our money! Another £8m or so is paid to the Private Sector, which leaves us with a net total in the region of £161m per week! (These figures obviously are not exact but can be checked on the internet). The advantage to Britain to come out of the EU is obvious in this instance alone.

2) I have read that the TTIP agreement is due to be signed between America and the EU in August (or it may be Autumn, but whatever, it is not that far away), we need to be out before this is done - otherwise we will definitely suffer. I urge you all to do your own research on this agreement - the only winner will be America! We are not being told anything about the TTIP - Transatlantic Trade & Investment Partnership - but look on YouTube (just enter TTIP) and you can read what a disaster this will be for the UK. Also look at the TISA - Trade In Service Agreement.

We all know this in an important issue and we cannot rely on being told the truth by either the Remain or Leave parties but I am sure we are all intelligent enough to be able to research for ourselves and work out whether we should Leave or Remain.

I believe in Britain and know how I am voting!!

People should think about what it will be like in 20 years time if we were to leave the EU.
Our currency will almost certainly disappear as well as our passports. The military will be brought into a Euro force and we will be forced to cut ties with the commonwealth.
The monarchy will be downgraded and the house of lords will most definitely go.
Many people of course will think these things are good but there definitely will be radical changes if we stay.

there is only one reason, we must keep Europe united. Only
Great Britrain can do it. Look to the future and not the past.

If we were given the opportunity to join the European Union today, knowing what we know now and seeing what's going on across Europe. Low growth,high debts and 40% unemployment in some cases. A massive migration problem with fences going up all over the place. Anti-Europe parties springing up everywhere, countries wanting their own vote to get out and corrupt lame duck countries waiting to join.

Where the European leaders stumble from one crisis to the next without the ability to solve any of them. Where we are expected to give up control of our own country to people we don't even elect. They would have to pay us £350 million each week to join not the other way round. We would be running in the opposite direction.

No wonder dodgy Dave and his chums dream up daily scare stories to try to prevent us from voting out.

Boris as PM ? We all read it today, desperate, lacking in judgment, offensive. That folks is what we will get as the PM if we vote to leave. Britain is better than this.

Like a lot of older folk I remember happier times before we joined the EU behemoth. That why I'm voting yo leave.

Hi everyone. I am a new member and am delighted that there is a healthy debate going on around whether or not the UK should leave the EU. It was also heartening to find that, in the poll, some 75% of members are in favour of leaving, including me. This is a huge subject and one which is challenging to fully understand. However, for some of us it is a no-brainer when you factor in all the elements. The following is an article from The Telegraph Business section which aims to bust the myths around Brexit - hope you find it interesting and food for thought.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2016/05/02/why-its-time-to-bust-the-many-myths-surrounding-brexit2/

Remember those leaflets on which the government spent £9.3m of tax payers money to persuade us to remain in the EU? Well over 200,000 people objected to that and as a result it was debated in Parliament.

For those that are interested here is the debate. Anyone that is undecided could learn a lot from watching and or listening to this.

http://www.parliamentlive.tv/Event/Index/93a979e7-4c8a-4d3f-89b1-529df4b4cad4#share

Like everybody else I want what is best for the UK, and for me that is about the people we want to have in government.

The UK government want us to remain in the EU. They tell us that the UK is one of the best places in world to live and work, and one of the wealthiest countries in the world. The UK is certainly not perfect, far from it, but watching the rest of the world on TV, and the problems they all have, I think they are correct. Living in the UK is about as good as it gets.

The rest of the world supports the UK government. All of the Commonwealth countries, all of the Americas, all of Europe and just about every country in the world of any size, and that includes Albania want us to vote yes. The exception is Russia, but then they have their own agenda.

Worldwide the list of major financial institutions who support the UK government is very long. Worldwide the list of the military and security institutions who support the UK government is also very long.

The list of major financial institutions who want us to vote no is very short. From the military and security institutions there are a few retired old soldiers who want us to vote no. They are mainly, old, retired and technically out of touch.

On behalf of Brexit we have Boris with his own personal ambition to be PM. Iain Duncan-Smith who failed as the leader of the Conservative party, Nigel Farage leader of the old and grumpy party, Michael Gove who has gone onto hiding after his disastrous speech in April and Kate Hoey who can never answer a straightforward question. Plus a few more politicians who have no chance of progressing and see Brexit as the last chance to get into a position of influence. In addition they have Aaron Banks who is on a Brexit campaign all of his own. Aaron has just produced a campaign promotion that links Brexit to Donald Trump.

For me yes or no is not about the cost of the EU, trade barriers, immigration, security, sovereignty and all the rest. For me yes or no is about the people I trust to be in Government. The people who will make the decisions that will be in the best interest of the UK and not just themselves.

I am not a supporter of the Conservative party, but I prefer to have the current government running the UK than the Brexit campaigners. I do not want my country being governed by the Brexit mix of political opportunists who have taken hypocrisy and double standards to a new level.

Iain Duncan Smith said yesterday that the EU favours "haves over the have-nots" and claimed he is speaking on behalf of the poor and people who are finding life difficult.

This is the same Iain Duncan Smith who imposed the “housing benefit under occupancy charge” or bedroom tax. A tax that targeted the disabled and the elderly surviving on benefits.

Hypocrisy.
A situation in which someone pretends to believe something they do not really believe, or that is the opposite of what they do or say at another time.

I have been listening to all the arguments put by both the in and out parties. The referendum has been rushed through as soon as David Cameron came back from the so called agreement with the EU so we do not have at the chance to take in all the pros and cons, in fact we have not been given true facts and figures, more scare tactics if we decide to leave.

I was undecided but weighing up all the pros and cons and the extortionate amount we put into the EU with relatively a small amount back. The fact that we are more or less governed now by the EU and the agreement made, despite David Cameron's assurances, is not binding and can and all be overridden by the EU, I will be voting to leave. These are just a few of my reasons. I do not take for gospel all I read by either parties but I do have a mind of my own and I don like what I see and hear. I truly believe we will be better out.

I am for leaving the EU. We can stand up for ourselves and we can flourish, we certainly won't go down the drain as some people out there seem to think. We can still trade, we can still produce goods, if only our government gives those that are willing to make it in business a helping hand. We would save money by not paying into the EU the enormous funds, we can spend that on the most important issues facing the country i.e the NHS. We can control our borders and we do not need to be told how to do it by EU bureaucrats.

Thanks Silversurfers - I have enjoyed perusing and been interested in reading all the varied comments and thoughts here.

I have swung and swayed from Stay In, to Get Out, for months now.....so I stepped away for a while and feel a bit fresher and more clear headed now.

I initially thought I was veering towards stay in; but on researching the amounts of money involved, plus large salaries & expenses for MEPs and all their aides and officials that I know little about, and even less about what they do to make our lives in UK better and/or safer.

I also fully understand that NATO & European Human Rights Commission are entirely separate from EU.....which is really only as it used to be called; a Common Market - but it appears to me to be a marketplace that has hefty and complex membership rules. It is also a market place where the customer base has exploded in size over recent times, and with increased membership has come increased bureaucracy, 'onus and responsibility' .....much of which I don't think we can afford or cope with.

So, today I am still a lover and admirer of the continent of Europe, the beaches, the history, and it's cultures and peoples; but feel I could forego my EU Health Card to see our home waters fished sensibly and freely, and to benefit from some reduction in the red tape and restrictions we endure. Assuming of course that we will have sensible and truth telling UK politicians in place who would manage our domestic affairs, health provision, manufacturing bases, training opportunities, pensions, and negotiate international trade deals well and transparently........ Mmmmmm more food for thought me thinks.

The only good thing about staying in this European club is the fortune we will save on MPs salaries and expenses. There will be little point in voting for a UK government in the future, since there will be nothing for them to govern. All we will need is a few low paid messengers to transfer orders from Brussels to the rest of us.

With the money we've saved we could pay even more into the European money box, to prop up more corrupt lame duck countries that are queueing up to join. A large part of this money could be used to support our own industries, our public services, over crowded schools, hospitals and transport systems. After all, it's not as though we couldn't find a home for it. Surely, our needs come before we support the lame ducks of Europe.

I think a lot of people confuse the EU with Europe the continent ,the EU is just a collection of governments of countries of Europe who have decided in there best interests to Harmonise there rules and laws, which as a bald statement is a good aspiration. The problem I now see is this is not what is happening, I think it would have been manageable if the common market is it was when we joined had stayed as 9 members, but as the expansion has taken place so the problems have expanded for Britain, I have nothing against immigration but too much I feel we destabilise the country, we are already seeing this in the NHS and Education, and when people say "oh the NHS won't function if we stop immigration", I don't won't to stop immigration I wont my elected government to have a choice who comes here and if I don't like there choices I the right to change the government something I can't do with the EU.I also want my government to be able to send convicted criminals and undesirable potential immigrants back to where they are citizens. As to the arguments about whether we are better off in trade and monetary terms the only sane answer to that is "nobody knows"
I would like to think that if we leave and with a big effort from visionary politicians and businesses this Great Britain of ours can flourish by creating new partnerships with the rest of the world and with the EU on terms we can live with,not the imposition of terms we don't like. This is a chance for Great Britain to Shine please don't let it go.GET OUT AND VOTE LEAVE EU

I like the European countries and always try to learn a bit of their languages when I visit. However I don't like the control-freak, bureaucratic policies of the EU. I could still visit those countries if we left it.

I saw a post on Facebook yesterday that suggested that David Cameron, and others were deliberately wanting us to vote 'OUT' even through he is voting to stay in. That his attitude and comments about leaving were to deliberately anger us to vote 'OUT' ....... The reason given is that he wants to sell off more of our once great institutions to his friends at knock down prices. The NHS for instance.
I found this difficult to swallow, as I believe that once 'OUT' he would have no other choice than to resign, along with his Buddy, The Chancellor of the Exchequer, Mr. Hunt. There have been far too many mistakes made by the pair, and already the public are calling for a Parliamentary rethink on the schools being forced into being Academies. People had had enough of this austerity that just goes on and on whilst the EU squanders the taxpayers money and the EU|'s books have never been audited. We can make a difference .......
WE NEED 'OUT' !

If our leaders, our politicians, those that have been elected by us to look after our welfare and our interests, are willing to blatantly lie, distort the facts, make up scare stories and wild exaggerations to keep us from voting to leave the most corrupt and universally disliked organisation ever to exist. You just have to wonder why?

l read both sides of the argument for leaving or staying with interest. I have known of the Bilderberg group since the middle sixties although l had never known its name. I agree with the sentiments Betsy M Mackay states as per Hawk008.
Just a reminder, Germany is trying to take over the London Stock Exchange and not a peep have l heard from the government about this. Moving the money power centre away from London to Frankfurt. Why is that l ask in my innocence?? Surely to strengthen the EU should we decide to leave. Be interesting to read your comments.

I agree with the statements in Hawke008.

There will undoubtably be challenges ahead but we need to make the effort to stand on our own two feet if only we could find some honest , not for profit MP's to lead a Government committed to making it work. If we say Out who is man enough to really fight for a Independent , proud and honest UK/

Out, Out, Out

I am staggered by the current polling and am dismayed if this is genuinely what the UK think. Having worked for a very large US technological company for many years prior to my retirement 18 months ago I know that they already have plans to abandon the UK if they ever leave Europe ... and that several similar companies were also undertaking the same planning. It seems that people seem to believe that the grass will be greener on the other side of Europe, but I am absolutely convinced that this will not be the case. People want control of their own borders, but this will be much worse if we leave. The worry is not EU migration (and remember that we have more people living and working abroad than any other EU country) it is terrorism - people from within being turned against our values by religious fanatics. Any move to leave will leave us with 3500km plus of coast to protect, along with the border between Eire and NI and all of the small islands around the coast ..... we will end up like the Lesbos of Greece, and the EU countries will be happy to let pirates take people from their nations and dump them around our coast. Seriously it will be absolute folly to leave, as we get far more from being in than people seem to realise.

If the EU is so good why do they have to tell us all a load of LIES ABOUT IT. VOTE LEAVE.

The following, copied from social media, makes a significant comment on the machinations of the EU. It is a little long but read to the end.
For those people who think our future lies within the EU, read the following and share.
BETSY M MACKAY wrote.......I, probably like most of my generation, knew very little about the EU. I had done a Masters degree in the 70s; brought up my family, and by the early 2000s was ready to return to University. I was privileged to return to University to complete a Second Masters Degree; this time in European Policy, European Law and European Economic Analysis. Words cannot describe the horror I felt as I delved into the truth of the EU. Sends shivers down my spine to this day, remembering the horror of the realisation, that we had been hoodwinked into the EU by deceitful, disingenuous, intentionally devious means. The populace of the UK was never intended to find out the truth behind the EU, until they reckoned it was too late. Truth it is almost....almost...almost too late. We already are, in the UK, all but a federal state in the United States of Europe. You never quite realised that, did you? Why? Because ' they very deliberately decided not to tell you! They deliberately created a political elite who knew full well that power was being ceded , systematically, Treaty by Treaty, to the EU. But who knew? They did! But were we the UK populace ever informed? Absolutely not! Why? They made mega millions from EU scammery & we the minions were shafted day, daily, monthly, yearly & forever. Where did your pensions go? Where did your schools, your NHS, your housing, your social services go? Well, £55 million per day, every day, every week, every month, every year..... Guess what? That is why UK is bankrupted for generations to come, with a £1.5 trillion pound debt. I wish I could enlighten the populace of the UK to the real truth about the EU. I spent a year studying the EU in depth, visiting both the EU Parliament and EU Commission in Brussels. Every word I heard in lectures, hundreds of hours of lectures, every word I researched for my thesis and every thing I saw in Brussels, lead me to the inescapable conclusion that the EU is an utterly corrupt, profligate, political monstrosity which has destroyed British jobs and bankrupted the UK for generations to come. The EU operates on lobbying, which is the technical term for bribery and corruption. Whatever Cameron says, EU law has supremacy over our UK law unless there is Treaty change. He may say so but the truth is that 27 other countries will never agree, this side of eternity, to change the Treaties.
So …..what is the connection between the EU, the Bilderberg Group and the almost completed TTIP? (Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership)
The Bilderberg Group meet in secret each year and they are a group of phenomenally wealthy men and women from the worlds of big business, banking and politics, coming from across Europe and the US.
The TTIP represents an integral component of Bilderberg’s attempt to rescue the unipolar world (New World Order) by creating a “world company,” initially a free trade area, which would connect the United States with Europe. Just as the European Union started as a mere free trade area and was eventually transformed into a political federation which controls upwards of 50 per cent of its member states’ laws and regulations with total contempt for national sovereignty and democracy, TTIP is designed to accomplish the same goal, only on a bigger scale.
The treaty is likely to advantage the corporations of both the US and the EU, while disadvantaging their people. It presents a danger to democracy and public protection throughout the trading area.
The Bilderberg Group are focussing on how to derail a global political awakening that threatens to hinder Bilderberg’s long standing agenda to centralize power into a one world political federation, a goal set to be advanced with the passage of the Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership (TTIP),
Bilderberg globalists are aghast and there is panic in the ranks that their planned EU superstate is being eroded as a result of a populist resistance all around Europe, mainly centred around animosity towards uncontrolled immigration policies.
And just who might we expect to find at such a secret gathering? Angela Merkel, Herman Van Rompuy (ex President of EU Council), Jean Claude Juncker, (Present President of the EU Commission), Martin Schultz,( Present President of EU Parliament), David Cameron, George Osbourne, Tony Blair, Ed Balls, Rona Fairhead, (Chair of the BBC Trust), Michael O’Leary of RyanAir, Stuart Rose (ex M & S, and BSE Chairman), Bill Clinton, Barak Obama………..…and many more. What do they all have in common? They are all trying to persuade you to stay in the EU. Why? Because it is in their warped self interest to do so! Is any of this in your interests? Absolutely not! Their modus operandi is that truth becomes lies and lies become truth. Sound familiar?
No possible option available, other than to get Out of EU ASAP. Vote Leave!

Credits to : Betsy M Mackay

I think there are £350 million reasons a week to say leave. I am aware that we get about 50% of that back in projects funded by the EU, however who runs a business where they only get back 50% of what they put in?
Even if £175 million was paid out by the Government to cover the funding we could lose if we opted out, that still leaves another £175 million per week that would benefit the NHS and many other austerity measures too.
Then there is the argument of having control of our own country, borders and laws, to say but a few.
Our nation has fought many a battle and lost many lives to avoid out independence being lost and I do not want to be a federal state of the 'United States of Europe' and I really hope everyone wakes up to that fact before 23rd June and votes to leave!

I still don't think I have enough facts to make my decision. I am concerned that perhaps I never will!

One of the reasons I will be voting to leave is "snake oil Dave "thinks its a good idea to remain,I wouldn't you buy a car from him I'm certainly not buying the rest of his garbage?

The European Union is so good that other countries are queueing up to get out, should we vote to leave. The domino effect is what Merkel & Co fear most.

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The Brexit campaign leaks information every day and they admit they have lost the argument about being better off if we leave the EU. This has triggered a leadership squabble and Boris Johnson, the lame duck London Mayor will have to be sacrificed, and with it goes his chance of being PM.
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So what next for Brexit. All they have left is immigration and the NHS, and sure enough Michael Gove published an article today on that very subject. To add to the confusion the MP Dominic Raab a Brexit supporter published an article on emigration. He says that that if we leave the EU we will need a visa to travel to Europe and logically need a visa to live in Europe.
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I can only assume that Brexit supporters are not in touch with each other. But it did make me think of all the Brits who have holiday homes in Spain and France etc. It is estimated something like 500,000 retired or semi-retired Brits have holiday homes in the EU. If we leave they will lose their EU health card and their UK pension will be frozen at today’s rate.
These retirees or nearly retired Brits are already returning at an ever increasing rate. If we vote to leave there will be a surge of them coming back to the UK as getting a residency visa in places like Spain and France will be close to impossible.
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These returning retirees will not work and pay tax, unlike most immigrants and they will have instant access to our social services. They will need places to live and just like all the rest of us pensioners they will be a huge cost to the NHS. Meanwhile we will be asking the immigrants who work in our care homes and in the NHS to go back to their country of birth.

The american president Obama has suggested that we stay in the EU as we may be at the back of a queue for around ten years to agree a trade agrement with the usa. He is not being honest and has an hidden agenda, perhaps he should also realise that he put his foot in his mouth when he timed his speech to coincide with St Georges Day he should have done his due diligence and he would have found out that the british people do not take kindly to being bullied or told what to do by anyone. He should also realise that america needs the uk more than the uk needs america. I will vote to leave the eu completely, we need to make our own law, make our own decisions and be brave enough to walk our own path in life.

All very well the president of USA telling UK to stay in EU. Do you think the President or, the American people would let an unelected party of people probably earning vasts amount of money make and change their laws? I have nothing against The President or the American people.

Or, put up with HR rubbish that lets evil criminals wander our streets because we can't use our own justice system to either deport them or keep them in jail?

As for building Racing Bikes/ Fancy Cars/ Luxury Yachts which mostly goes abroad, not much use to the thousands who don't work in those big corporations who of course want to stay in the EU.

London has always been a main financial centre. Have we forgotten already, tax payers having to bale out banks and bankers that were supposed to be looking after our interests.

When we can make our own laws and guard our own border's without interference from EU i might think about it, but then, who in the EU is going to give a fig what Hattie want's, they will just keep doing and going by their laws.

Hello Scandiman
I am a little older than you and I agree that a lot of things have changed.
It is true that most cars built in the UK are made in foreign owned factories. In return those businesses employ many thousands of people and pay the treasury a lot of tax.
But that is only part of the picture. The UK leads the world in designing and building specialist road cars such as Morgan, Caterham, Mclaren, Westerham, and Ginetta. We also design and build more racing cars than any other country in the world and UK names such as Mclaren Racing, and Williams have world recognition. These two parts of the motor industry are very closely linked and they employ thousands of people.
Motorbikes are another success with Triumph Motorcycles building over 50,000 bikes a year and many smaller specialist businesses such as Greeves creating off road and race bikes.
In the IT industry the UK is one of the leading countries in the world. We do not build stuff because for that you need very cheap labour. What we do extremely well is the coding and software. The list is too long for this forum but our coding and software is to be found in products throughout the world. The IT industry employs thousands of people in the UK.
In the financial services industry we are a world leader. Tokyo, London and New York being the worlds 3 main financial centres. Just one part of the financial service industry is foreign currency exchange. The UK manages over 80% of the world’s foreign currency transactions every day of the week. The financial services industry in the UK employs thousands of people.
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We will never be able to compete in the coal industry as it is only makes commercial sense if you can employ very cheap labour, and let them work in dreadful conditions. The same applies to ship building, although we do build some of the best luxury yachts in the world.
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Yes many things have changed but mostly it is for the better. We have low unemployment, girls can now compete on an even playing field in all the professions and without doubt they are the real driving force in design. We are living longer and despite the problem of obesity we are all much healthier.
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The UK is a fantastic country and despite our being less than 1% of the world’s population and 13% of the EU community we continue to achieve great things. If we place ourselves behind a trade barrier by leaving the EU it is inevitable that these industries, and many others will slow down, and some will not survive.

Now Mr. Cameron is getting President of USA helping him with his referendum, telling us we should stay in the EU or end up at the end of the queue for trade. Sounded like a warning to me.

Can you imagine what the American people would say if Mr. Cameron went there telling them how to sort their gun laws or any other political issues in their country.

Still going to vote OUT.

I still don't feel adequately informed. The politicians all give their own opinions, most of which differ from each other but how do we know who is giving us the right information?

Michael Gove (MG) is a very good speaker and his speech on April 19th was well written and very creative. I was hoping that MG would tell us why our economy would be stronger and we would all be safer and happier if we voted to leave the EU.
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MG did not do that, but he did tell us a story. A fantasy story. The story was all about what would happen if we voted to leave the EU. The core of the story is that that having decided to leave the EU the remaining 27 EU countries would all start working together to ensure that the UK becomes wealthier, stronger, more secure and a “happier place”
MG then added some detail to the fantasy. MG said that if we left the biggest and strongest trading bloc in the world the 27 members would not impose tariffs or trading restrictions on the UK or even ask us to cooperate with them. MG told us that the remaining 27 countries would be bending over backwards to ensure that the UK would still be able to trade and move freely within the EU, keep all the rights that go with being in membership and as a sort of bonus they would not charge us a fee, as they do to Norway.
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Unfortunately MG did not explain why France and Germany and the other EU countries would agree to a deal with the UK that would be better than the agreement they have themselves. But then when you listen to a fantasy story you have to recognise that it is after all a fantasy, and not reality.
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I do not think I need to come to a conclusion. It was after all just a story and we can now get back to reality.
PS. The words “happier place” belong to Michael Gove, not me.

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The EU has grown too big - it's time to control our own destiny (and borders) again!

Chris Grayling and Nigel Farage. My memory, which is supported by Google, tells me that just a few short months ago they were politically opposed to each other. But things must have changed. A couple of days ago, there they were, shaking hands and telling an already converted audience why we should leave the EU.
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Nigel Farage and George Galloway an even more strange partnership. Politically I thought they were miles apart. How odd it is that that the Moscow sponsored TV channel Russia Today should bring them together.
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Arron Banks as well as being a great mate of Nigel Farage has pledged millions to the Brexit campaign. But I understand that he cannot vote because he is not domiciled in the UK. It is hard to say where he lives, some reports say Belize and others say Isle of Man.
But now that his name has now been leaked in the Panama Papers we can also see that in addition to Belize and the IoM he has money in the British Virgin Islands and interests in mining in Northern Cape and Lesotho.

Boris Johnson wrote in the Daily Telegraph in May 2013.

Mr Johnson added that, “More generally, there is a risk that leaving the EU will be globally interpreted as a narrow, xenophobic, backward-looking thing to do.”

This was presumably before Mr Boris Johnson realized that if he joined the Leave party and they won, he would end up as the leader of the Conservative party and Prime Minister.

Hypocritical is a word Boris used last week. It is a word that he would easily recognize as a description of his own character.

I don't mind if it costs us a little at first , we need our dignity and sovereignty back. The government want us to stay in so their mates in Europe parliament can keep their overpaid jobs.

We still have no information from the Vote EU side. All we get are shouted statements that everybody on the remain side is wrong and the leave side are right.
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Vote Leave have not explained why leaving the EU side will be better for all of us or produced any data for us to read and understand.
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Today they said the same thing following a Treasury prepared report. No explanation from Vote Leave but just the same shouted report that it is wrong.
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Mind you they they managed to get Ian Botham (yes the same Ian Botham the test cricket captain 20 years ago) onto the front page of The Sunday Times. Ian says we should leave the EU and trade with New Zealand, Australia and The Caribbean. I am not sure how Ian works out that trading with a total of 66 million people would replace 500 million in the EU.

Stronger together ! Getting out will be a retrograde step, in my opinion.

I am thinking about voting tho leave the EU, but in doing so are we going to lose all of the rights we have now? And what will all our rights be replaced with?

My wife and I have lived in Spain for over 20 years and have no problem with the EU. It is not perfect, but neither is the UK Parliament. We have had 43 years of connection with the EU and have a say in what happens. If we leave, the remaining EU members will react like a woman scorned. Forget what Boris says there will no easy renegotiation of trade arrangements. The UK will be out in the COLD ALONE!

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Sorry pressed wrong button, thought it was yes to leave EU. I will be voting leave, voted no first time and successive times. From what I have seen the EU is two member club and we are not one of them. Now it seems that for David Cameron to get Merkel's backing he must agree to a European Armed Force. How much more of our soveriegnty is he willing to give up. If the UK votes to stay in the EU say goodbye to life as you know it for we will no longer have a country to call home.

Article 50 of the Treaty of Lisbon states that:
1. Any Member State may decide to withdraw from the Union in accordance with its own constitutional requirements.”
2. A Member State which decides to withdraw shall notify the European Council of its intention. In the light of the guidelines provided by the European Council, the Union shall negotiate and conclude an agreement with that State, setting out the arrangements for its withdrawal, taking account of the framework for its future relationship with the Union. That agreement shall be negotiated in accordance with Article 218(3) of the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union. It shall be concluded on behalf of the Union by the Council, acting by a qualified majority, after obtaining the consent of the European Parliament.
3. The Treaties shall cease to apply to the State in question from the date of entry into force of the withdrawal agreement or, failing that, two years after the notification referred to in paragraph 2, unless the European Council, in agreement with the Member State concerned, unanimously decides to extend this period.

So basically we have the right to leave the EU. From the date of notifying the European Council we have two years to negotiate the terms of our leaving including any trade agreements, which would probably be pretty good as they wont want to give up on a lucrative market for their goods. Finally, with or without agreement, any and all treaties would cease to apply to the UK two years after notifying our intention to leave. During these two years we would also be free to negotiate trade agreements with anybody else we choose to trade with.

Those who say that the economic, politic and ecological advances we have made are entirely due to membership of the EU and that we risk losing all the progress we have made and losing out on so many rights and achievements, seem to be drastically under estimating the British people if they think that the progress we made in all these areas, from the beginning of the last century up until the time we joined the then Common Market, would not have continued without the directives of the European "supernanny" or that we will not continue to progress. A bit insulting really!

I see no point in remaining in a system which has morphed out of all recognition from its original concept and which will continue to try to control all aspects of our lives. It has already made it easy for huge chunks of our industry, utilities and services to be privatised, sold off or leased to outside interests; aided and abetted by successive governments concerned only with surface show and money in their pockets.

Not only will leaving the EU put us back in control of our country and our borders, we might even be able to bring our government under control - a definite bonus!

The EU is definitely not for me I look at it like I give my neighbour all my money every year and he gives me a little bit back but then I can only spend it on what he tells me to. Not a good deal on any stretch of the imagination if we sign up to them we are giving away our freedom once locked in who knows what they will do

I will be voting OUT. But, i have to say, that is because of my age and remember before we joined the EU. i have listened and read (not the 9 million leaflet) to both sides. I don't know why, but the Stay In blurb always sounds like the EU is dictating to me. I do feel a little guilty because i feel sorry for the younger generation.

If! if! the vote turns out to be STAY IN that is it! we can't turn back.
5-10 years down the line EU will just churn out thousands of pages legislation that no one bothers to read plus, they can make whatever laws they like and we will have to abide by them.

I don't know, sitting here i can't think of anything truly British anymore, no steel, no coal, we are an Island and even have fishing restrictions there is probably more i can't think of at the moment.

Anyway, roll on June get it over with.

Really can't make up my mind things for and against been waiting for a good debate on the television

It is not a matter of having little faith in our country, it is a matter of the commercial reality of who we are going to trade with in today’s world.
There are 5 trading blocs, APEC, CAIRNS GROUP, G20, NAFTA and the EU. We are members of the EU It is the most powerful trading bloc in the world, with a GDP almost as large as the USA. Those 5 trading blocs represent 85% of world trade every day of the week.
Trading blocs are all protectionist and they make outsiders pay to trade with its members. If we leave the EU we will have to pay an annual fee to trade with EU members and pay an annual fee to trade with members of the other trading blocs. Just like Norway does in order to trade with EU members.

I cannot think of any recent legislation from the EU that has been against our interest.

I retired a short while ago after over 30 years of starting and running small and medium sized businesses. The EU rules are in practice very minimal and all they involve is a bit of paperwork. It is simply a matter of measuring the time it takes to fill out a small amount of paperwork against the commercial benefits that come from being able to trade with 500 million people without restriction. The trading benefits win out every time.

John Longworth had to resign because he holds views that are very different to the majority of BCC members. He abused his role as a spokesman and administrator, if he had not resigned he would have been dismissed.

I am not sure how you can say that the EU needs us more then we need them. The population of the EU is 500 million. The population of the UK is 65 million or 13%. We make a lot of noise but we are in reality a member just like everybody else.

If we leave it is to be expected that EU members will restructure the way they work with the UK. Overseas owned businesses will be pulled out of the UK because of the export tariffs that will be placed upon the UK. For example, Germany will almost certainly take Rolls Royce and Bentley back to Germany. France will take Airbus back to France and the City will re locate to Frankfurt. That will be just the start.

I want to listen to the reasons for us to leave the EU. The two groups that say we will be better outside the EU are Vote Leave and Leave.EU/Grassroots Out. Both groups are in internal chaos and spend their time squabbling with each other. They have both failed to produce any kind of document that we can read and understand how they will replace the business we will lose if we leave the EU.

I went off for a cup of tea. Whilst drinking my tea the news came through that the International Monetary Fund has stated that leaving the EU would cause major damage to the UK and Europe.

If the European Union is such a wonderful project, why are people in other countries across Europe putting pressure on their governments for a referendum? An anti Europe feeling is spreading like a rash right across Europe, parties that support these feelings don't exist unless people vote for them.

Some people seem to have little faith in our country and adopt the view we could never trade on our own, when we have done so for hundreds of years long before we got involved in this European Union nonsense. There are many countries around the world who trade successfully on their own and have nothing to do with Europe.

Governments across Europe increasingly have little control or say over how their country operates, the laws and decisions are made elsewhere often against their own interests. 70% of our laws are made in Brussels by people we don't even elect. The bosses of many of the small to medium size businesses often complain of how legislation holds them back and prevents growth, this applies right across Europe and accounts for some of the high unemployment we see today. Listen to John Longworth who was recently kicked out of the British Chambers of Commerce who is campaigning for Brexit he should know.

Europe needs us rather more than we need them, they also realise if we leave then other countries will follow. As the second biggest economy in Europe and the fifth largest in the world we should show them the way. I only hope if we do come out we have a more anti Europe leader than the two we have at the moment who cuddle up to Mercal. Dodgy Dave & boy George.

When we voted to go into the Common Market many years ago, there were advantages but the whole ethos has changed and now we are ruled by a load of faceless individuals who never stop thinking of stupid laws to impose on us. For this privilege we pay a vast amount of money each day which could be used to improve all our services and put the Great into Great Britain again!

We should revert to being governed by our own parliament and have our borders controlled by us and not dictated to by Brussels. We joined the Common Market trading group for the English and not to become a member of the European Union.

Your view that membership of the EU and joining the Euro has collectively been the downfall of these 5 countries is wrong.

After having the Euro in common you have to look individually at why each of those countries have economies that have not grown in the same way as UK and Germany. And primarily it is Government failure in each of those countries.

Spain. Very little manufacturing, agricultural decline, property bubble / banking failure.
Portugal. Very little manufacturing, fishing industry decline, property bubble / banking failure.
Italy. Massive tax avoidance, political instability with 61 changes in 50 years, banking failure.
Greece. They should not have been allowed to join.
France. 35 hour working week, militant farmers, out of control social services.
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I do not understand why you think we would be better off by leaving the EU. The EU is one the biggest trading blocs in the world. We trade more with the EU than we do with any other country or region in the world and we can do this because we are members. Why would you want to withdraw our membership from our most successful trading agreement.
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The EU has over 80 trading agreements with non-member countries already in place. These agreements include all of the most prosperous countries in the world who are not in EU membership.
If we leave we will have to negotiate a trading agreement with the EU, our biggest and most successful trading partner. If we leave we will have to negotiate trading agreements with all of the 80 countries that we had trading agreements with as EU members.

To judge how good Europe is you only have to look at the other countries inside it. Namely, Spain, Portugal, Italy, Greece, France. They were all capable of standing on their own two feet at one time and perhaps with the exception of Greece reasonably prosperous. Now they are bogged down with debt have very little growth and massive unemployment, some as much as 40%. Had we listened to the so-called experts who told us the world would cave in if we didn't join the Euro, we would be in the same position.

As the second largest economy in Europe we should take the opportunity to get out while we still can, stand on our own two feet again and start to trade with the more prosperous countries around the world. Britain didn't become great by being tied to Europe.

It's good to see the people of Holland vote No to Ukraine joining the EU, another corrupt ex-Russian country holding it's hand out for all it can get, while the rest of us are expected to pay for it.

I grew up in the 40s and 50s and started working in the 60s. A period which so many contributors seem to remember as being a wonderful time to live in Great Britain. I know how life was then and I know how life has become since we became a member of the European Community in 1973.
Up until the late 60s we were still recovering from WW2. Industrial smog was killing thousands every winter and polio and TB was common in children. The NHS was massively underfunded, the hospitals were mainly pre-war buildings and lacked investment, and the appalling state education system left thousands of children totally illiterate when they left school.
In the early 70s housing was still abysmal and thousands lived in privately owned slums. Wages were low and job security was almost totally absent. Manufacturing was a dark and dirty place being driven by old and tired technology, and being held back by the lack of investment. The City and financial sector was out of control with fraud, insider dealing and financial opportunism being standard practice.
In the early 70s the UK economy was in ruins and we were the poor man of Europe. Trade barriers were preventing us from trading with Europe and just about everywhere else in the world.
We joined the European Community in 1973 and during the past 43 years the smog, the slums and dirty manufacturing have all but gone and unemployment is at a record low. The NHS is achieving an extraordinary level of success, despite being underfunded. Education is geared towards the high tech and service industries, the industries that continue to create jobs and make the UK wealthy. The City and the financial sector has mostly been cleaned up.
And now in 2016 the UK is so wealthy we are facing an obesity epidemic, and we oldies are living so long that the NHS and the pension department cannot cope.
This has all happened during our period of EC and then EU membership. The principle of having common and shared interests has worked. The UK is part of the European social and business community. A sharing community that is politically stable, that trades without barriers and exchanges technology and skills without any restrictions. Working together we have become one of the biggest trading partnerships in the world.
Nothing is perfect and the EU is very far from perfect. But membership brings the UK political stability, barrier free trading, freedom to work and travel in the EU and much more. Carry on as we are and the forecast is that we will become the wealthiest country in EU membership.

In the last week we can very clearly see how unimportant the UK is to China and we already know that India will walk away from our steel industry.
China.
if we leave the EU we will have to negotiate trade tariffs with China who think we are unimportant.
India.
If we leave the EU we will have to negotiate trade tariffs with India who are far more interested in the rest of Asia and China.
The EU.
If we leave the EU they have very clearly told us that there will be trade barriers and tariffs.

I can understand how kins and folks up to their thirties and possibly forties could vote to stay in because they have never known any different, and are possibly buying into the scare stories that the remain mob are publishing on a daily basis with the help of the tabloids and BBC.

But those of us that have been around since it started realise that we have been lied to from day one, taken for total idiots and seen the so called "common market" morph into a juggernaut of a single entity run by unelected beauracrats that we have no power over, running every facet of our lives with no recourse.

The person that commented earlier about Germany running the show is spot on, my father said when we elected to join the common market that "twice by force of arms Germany have tried to take over the whole of Europe, this way they will do it without firing a shot".

He was it seems something of a prophet. The German people are also waking up and I would not be surprised at all to see a) Merkel booted out and b) Germany having their own in-out referendum.

We should come out

Can't wait to vote OUT in June. I think this is just another way of Germany trying to rule Europe and so many gave their lives to prevent this happening in both World Wars. It seems the only ones who wish to stay are businesses with European dealings or politicians on their own gravy train. We have always given more than we get back. Britain is no longer Great, there are food banks in most towns, the number of homeless is diabolical. Employment,Health, Prisons and Education have never been as bad since we joined the EU with all their rules. Those of us who remember pre EU remebr a Great Britain.

would you join any organisation where no one is accountable for how it is run or what it costs? the money we pay could pay for all existing eu subsidies plus money over to finance nhs etc. it is just another layer of government which provides jobs for unelectable failures, ie the kinnocks.

We should stay in euro because we do a lot of medical research with other university and clinical centre which benefits people in England Wales Scotland & Ireland.
Without euro funding a lot of people in the medical and health professions would be unemployed, as they have their salary paid by the euro funding their research.
They will not be funded by this or government or any future government.
In the last seven years l and my partner would be unemployed and be claiming benefits and told we are scrounger having both be in work for the last 30 years.
So l advise you look at the bigger picture,

I just which June was here get this over with, and am hoping it will be an OUT vote.
Watching the shambles of the EU, and having to watch the awful killers going round Europe slaughtering innocent people because no one is able to stop them, what on earth is EU there for? We need control of our own boarders.

Sad really, since joining EU, seems UK is unable to run it's own house, what did we do before joining and how better of are we being a member?

In June 2015 Mrs Merkel tells a crying child who was being deported "GERMANY CAN'T TAKE EVREYONE", which at the time I thought was very heartless. Then less than 2 months later she has a monumental change of heart and throws open the doors to a biblical mass of migrants. She did this without consulting her party or other EU countries. I did wonder about her motives. Maybe it was the promise of something better and could that something be like taking Ban ki -moons place at the UN.

When we joined we joined the common market not a European State that has now robbed us of every decision making body we had including our weak and lying government.
If we stay in we will have to take in tens of thousands so called refugees and migrants that as a small island nation we cannot afford!Our NHS is being sold off in back handed deals and this government is making it appear to be so badly run that the best thing would be to privatise it.If we took in more people then the NHS would go into meltdown.Funding for all emergency services has been cut to disastrous levels so how can we expect the police , fire ,ambulance and border control people to cope.
Don't be fooled byDavid Camerfools project fear we would be a better country looking after ourselves not paying billions of pounds to a corrupt group of faceless people in Brussells.

I remember a time when we did just fine on our own and we weren't governed by Brussels. Once Britain was great all by itself. We had a national pride.

we should be able to administer our own courts & what punishment is administered be carried out & not be subjected to European laws.

We are more than capable of surviving outside the EU. It was supposed to be a trade agreement I didn't sign up to have my country ruled by someone I haven't voted for

Watching and listening, seems to me EU is in a complete shambles. All they can come up with is to chuck billions of euro at which ever country will sort out the immigration crisis for them.
Apart from all the other issues the OUT voters on here voice my main rant is the HR rubbish.

I just cannot get my head round why?? EU/Brussels or whoever seems it's ok for evil criminals to have the HR to wander our streets, what this does to victims and their families must be devastating.

I would like one of the 'do good brigade' to come on here tell us they would be ok with an evil criminal who wrecked their lives to live in their community.

I don't want EU making our laws.