Should smacking children be banned across the UK?
A smacking ban in Scotland is likely to be ruled today at Holyrood.
Scotland is to become the first country in the UK to make it a criminal offence for parents to smack their children.
Parents and carers are currently allowed to use “reasonable” physical force to discipline children.
But the Scottish government has backed moves to give children the same protection from assault as adults.
Plans to make smacking a child illegal were backed by five of the seven MSPs on the Equalities and Human Rights Committee at its first stage towards becoming law.
The Bill would remove the defence of justifiable assault in Scots law, which allows parents to use physical punishment on children.
It would be “a watershed moment in Scots law and in changing Scotland’s culture”, according to Committee Convener Ruth Maguire.
She said: “It’s over three decades since all physical punishment was ended in classrooms, and it’s now time to end it at home as well. This law will ensure our children are legally protected from assault in the same way as adults.”
Britain is one of only four countries in Europe where smacking remains a legal way of disciplining children and 57 countries already prohibit the physical punishment of children including France, Sweden, and Ireland.
What are your views? How did you discipline your children? Do you think parents who smack their children should face prosecution? Or do you think it should be up to the discretion of a parent as to how they punish their child? Would you ever intervene if you saw someone smacking their child?
What are your views?
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They are of belts, or anything else that came to hand.
Violence against children is wrong, murderers are not beaten, why should defenceless children be ?
I think it is better that parents are more patient with their children nowadays.
Children can be a danger to themselves if they are pushing boundaries.
My oldest was sent to her room which she loved, she'd do her painting, practice her flute and so on so that was a waste of time. Being warned twice previously that she'd get a smack on the back of the hand when she wouldn't leave the cooker knobs alone ensured she never touched them again.
At the age of 7 my son told me I couldn't smack him as it was assault. After a day of him being particularly obnoxious, and sending him to a naughty step (what a farce that is!) I eventually resorted to a smack on the backside over his shorts. He dialled 999! Oh, my humiliation and embarrassment when two police officers arrived at my door. They interviewed my son, then me, and asked my permission to take him to the police station with me following. I was able to listen to his 'interview' which was kind but firm, he came out of that room very subdued and apologetic. Strangely enough he never misbehaved that badly again. He's 37 now and a police officer.
I do not condone hitting a child or any other person. The do-gooders can't or don't want to get it into their heads that there is a massive difference.
I for one am delighted that I live in an enlightened, caring, forward looking and progressive country and proud that Scottish MSPs have passed the "Children (Equal Protection from Assault) Bill", joining the other 57 countries across the world who heed international evidence showing that smacking can have serious impacts on children, and that it is not effective. MSPs passed the bill by a margin of 84 to 29 with only the Tories opposing (now there's a surprise).
Perhaps those who believe that children are now more badly behaved than ever should consider this:
"The children now love luxury; they have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for elders and love chatter in place of exercise. Children are now tyrants, not the servants of their households." - Socrates (469–399 B.C.). BTW - I disagree with children being "servants" of anyone or anything.
For those interested - here's a summary of evidence submitted to MSPs at Holyrood.
https://www.parliament.scot/S5_Equal_Opps/equal%20protection/CEPFA_Summary_of_Evidence_.pdf
We all know what experts are: X is an unknown and spurt is a drip under pressure.
With the greatest respect of course.
And what are your qualifications in this sphere?
Not all children are monsters.
I realise from your in-depth and reasoned reply that there is little point in showing you the research. You will continue to to make glib, sloppy replies referring to the "pc brigade".
Out of interest - what are your qualifications in this area?
So, no qualification then. In that case, I'll listen to the experts if you don't mind.
"Political Correctness" is a derogatory, pejorative term to denounce any type of progress made in an attempt at advancing society. Values change. What was tolerated 100, 50, 10 years ago isn't tolerated any more. This is the way things are.
If the "PC Brigade" brigade were listened to we'd still be sending children up chimneys to clean them from the inside and locking up single mothers in the Magdalene Laundries.
I have also, no qualifications in divining real motives and agenda. So you will forgive me, if to my untutored mind, apart from virtue signalling, I suspect political posturing from those who would tear the Union apart.
Governments cannot form or legislate policy based on experiences or anecdotes.
It is great that you had a positive upbringing and admirable that you continue this with your extended family, however, there are thousands and thousands who haven't. One of the main priorities of any Government is to protect its citizen - all of them - irrespective of their age, ethnicity, wealth, education, or any other measure you care to take.
This legislation gives children the same protection from assault as adults - and no matter how you try to play it down - in the eyes of the law, smacking is an assault. Do you think it wrong that a Government passes legislation that cares for and protects some of its most vulnerable citizens?
You can suspect that it is political posturing all you like. The truth of the matter is that was voted for and passed by all MSPs from all parties, except (no surprise) the Tories. It was proposed by Green MSP John Finnie.
I will no longer bother you again with my opinion, I cannot be bothered to batter against your ego and the space in your intellect where the possibility of other views should reside. It must be very lonely being the only person who is right.
I rail against lazy thoughtless comments like "PC Brigade" "Nanny State" and "Virtue Signalling" which are bandied about with such ease and abdicates those who use them from real discussion.
Interesting that you accuse me of being rude and arrogant yet you are just that about a politician from a particular party. I have not made assumptions or passed comments on anyone's character yet you are arrogant enough to make them about me.
Most comments on here have expressed the feeling that they haven't come to harm, either physically of psychologically, from receiving a reasonable degree of chastisement and the research can not alter what they have learnt from life.
I have met experts and read articles and theses by these experts
when I was studying for in Business Management.
I checked what their experience was in various subjects and most of the results were very limited and contained a lot of plagiarism.
Too many people have given up bringing up their children to respect people and property.
Do parent now have to say to a child who has put a finger in a electrical socket - darling you should not have done that whilst they are organising a funeral - or would it not be better before the finger got there a small smack on the hand. To me let parents you their common sense.
I was smacked as a child (not physically abused) and so was mine and I think we were a family that considered each other and the rest of the world.
I am fed up with hearing screaming children and children have tantrums because they cannot have want they want immediately. - come on let common sense rule again and let parents decide if their child needs a small tap as a reminder what us right or wrong.
Personally, I am not talking about a small tap and while you and your children suffered no harm, many children do,
There are many positive ways to teach children manners and good behaviour but, of course, they take a little more time and effort than smacking.
We probably all grew up during a time when parents smacked, schools caned and screaming children in shops were slapped because their parent had lost patience. If parenting has moved on so that children are taught rather than punished, then I think that is something to be celebrated.
I believe it is the lack of love, care and guidance that leads to a troubled child rather than the lack of a slap.
How about saying no bad language should be used to children as it is teaching them how not to behave. This country is dealing with never ending stabbings and terrible behaviour from those who have not been taught right from wrong and respect. I really wish people would look at what is wrong and work out what has caused the problems. No respect for others and for oneself - respect is earned not a right.. bring back better standards of. Behaviour wwe. Can be proud of.
If I were to slap or hit another adult, no matter how lightly, it would be assault in the eyes of the law.
Prior to this legislation being passed, children were the only category of persons in Scotland against whom violence was explicitly permitted.
Evidence confirms that physical punishment does not work as a
disciplinary tool to address children’s difficult behaviour. Rather, it has been shown to worsen bad behaviour, International studies overwhelmingly find that smacking risks short and long-term damage to children and has strong associations with violence in later life. The very violence and behaviour you rightly express concern over..
In what way do I contradict myself?
There always has been and always will be heavy handed parenting. I grew up under it. That doesn't mean to say we should condone it, no .But to enact blanket legislation to ban all reasonable physical chastisement is utterly stupid. Those who are child abusing heavy handers won't obey any law and those who are not will be heavily penalised and perhaps vilified for being reasonable parents.
But, then again, what isn't turned upside down these days by experts?
Children deserve the same level of protection as adults, if not more, and this legislation addresses the absurd situation in Scotland where violence against a child was permitted in the eyes of the law, but rightly punished if it were violence against an adult.
That you believe youngsters "now have little grasp on the fact of life there is a right way to conduct oneself and a now much more common wrong way." is down to many factors but will most certainly not be solved by smacking.
Society today is to quick to throw up their hands in horror if a child is told off.
Let children be children, grow up slowly, they don't need to be adults at 8years old or younger.
Bullying and abuse in my opinion.
It worries me that some people throw up their hands in horror about smacking and yet contemplate medical interference with puberty and gender preferences.
May I just add ... not only are some parents compliant in early gender reassignment but also the use of drugs such as Ritilin (marketed over here under other names I believe) to control the wayward behaviour of their progeny.
How many kids with ADHD, autism etc., did you know as a kid? I don't recall any which leaves me thinking it's got more to do with the child's lack of self discipline than more serious and so ill-defined head problems. That was certainly the case with our postman, a friend for fifteen years. When he took over his daughters discipline from a rather soft and PC mother, delivering the occasional smack, matters improved very quickly.
My father was an ex-merchant navy ships master during the War continuing through to '58. You didn't mess with him. Oh no!
Respect for our elders, slap on the back of our legs and being expected to do chores for the few pennies called pocket money never did us any harm.
I despair for this country if one day the youths I hear and see in our high street from my flat window every night are in charge, I've learnt so many new and interesting words since I've lived here and none are suitable fo r repeating.
I look at my step grand children and wonder ... what goes around comes around - how are they going to fare next time, because there will be a next time and it's now well overdue.
The reason why you didn't know any "kids" with ADHD or autism when you were young is because the Autistic Spectrum has only been used from 1987, prior to that "autism" was used to describe a form of childhood schizophrenia. There were certainly children who would be diagnosed as on the Autistic Spectrum but probably just labelled as "bad" or "wayward".
My father too was ex-merchant navy and crewed Landing Craft as RN during the assault of Omaha Beach. He never raised his hands to me or my sisters, I would never "mess" with him, loved him dearly and totally respected him. But I'm not sure what this or your reminiscing has to do with the current discussion.
From whom the children learn their behaviours.
As for smacking, I would have no regret in smacking a smacker, and that comes from someone who was liberally smacked.
Using violence of any sort against a child makes me question the skills of the inept cowardly perpetrator of this practice.
They should try to relive their own emotional fears when they were subjected to such practices when they were children.
Smacking a child is nothing more than an adult trying to expunge their frustrations.
Shameful.
Parenting skills ought to be taught to parents before a baby is even born! Because it work for my generation doesn't make it right! I as a child, grew up in fear!
One of my daughters is a child care worker.
Where as I on the other hand being brought up 60 years ago by a devout Catholic father was beaten regularly for breathing...(apparently to purge me of my sins). I had no idea what I had done wrong 99% of the time. (I'm over it).
I honestly believe that if little people are talked to and listened to and I will add, fed healthy home cooked food instead of junk they will be good little people.