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Should the Proms be stripped of its favourite vocals?

Orchestral versions of Rule Britannia! and Land Of Hope And Glory will be played at the famous Last Night of the Proms concert on September 12.

The BBC risked a fresh row after announcing that traditional favourites such as Land Of Hope And Glory will be performed without lyrics at the Proms.

The broadcaster revealed details of the Last Night after reports that anthems Rule Britannia! and Land Of Hope And Glory could face the axe over their perceived association with colonialism and slavery.

On Monday night, after Downing Street waded into the controversy, the BBC issued a statement saying Land Of Hope And Glory and Rule Britannia! will be performed at the Last Night Of The Proms, but without singing.

Father Marcus Walker, rector at Great St Bartholomew’s in London, wrote on Twitter: “Hilarious that people are dressing the BBC promising ‘orchestral versions’ of Land Of Hope And Glory and Rule Britannia as a retreat.

“It’s nothing of the sort, it’s gutting the songs of their words – of their meaning. You may think that’s a good thing or not, but it’s no retreat.”

The BBC said there had been “unjustified personal attacks” on social media on Finnish conductor Dalia Stasevska, who will be at the helm of the Last Night this year.

“Decisions about the Proms are made by the BBC, in consultation with all artists involved,” it said.

There will be no live audience to sing along because of coronavirus restrictions.

The national anthem will be sung at the event, which will air on BBC Radio 3 and on BBC One and feature soprano Golda Schultz and the BBC Symphony Orchestra.

The BBC said: “The Proms will reinvent the Last Night in this extraordinary year so that it respects the traditions and spirit of the event whilst adapting to very different circumstances at this moment in time.

“With much reduced musical forces and no live audience, the Proms will curate a concert that includes familiar, patriotic elements such as Jerusalem and the national anthem, and bring in new moments capturing the mood of this unique time, including You’ll Never Walk Alone, presenting a poignant and inclusive event for 2020.”

Prime Minister Boris Johnson has called for an end to “self-recrimination and wetness” as the BBC’s chief said it was “right” to remove lyrics from some traditional anthems at the Last Night of the Proms.

The BBC’s director-general Lord Hall said the decision to perform new, orchestral versions of Rule, Britannia! and Land Of Hope And Glory was a “creative” one.

But he confirmed that the issue of dropping songs because of their association with Britain’s imperial history had been discussed.

His interview aired after the Prime Minister voiced his concern over the issue, saying he wanted to get his thoughts “off my chest”.

“But the PM previously has set out his position on like issues and has been clear that, while he understands the strong emotions involved in these discussions, we need to tackle the substance of problems, not the symbols.”

Culture Secretary Oliver Dowden said that “confident, forward-looking nations don’t erase their history”.

What are your views?

Should the Proms be stripped of its favourite vocals?

1836 people have already voted, what's your opinion? Yes No

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cehodgson
3 days ago
0
Thanks for voting!
They are part of our history but the main thing is that everyone loves to sing them at the end of the proms.
We’re getting too sensitive, we’re so frightened that we offend!
swaneldo
11th Sep 2020
3
Thanks for voting!
Oh to be back in the happy days when we just bobbed along with each other without huge chips on our shoulders and getting tediously offended at every little thing. We now live with multiple ists and isms being continuously rammed down our throats at every opportunity and we pander to the pious hurt feelings brigade because they have a little hissy fit and demand attention focuses on them. We are simply all just human beings. Every nation has 'a history' - live with it; deal with it; learn from it. As the saying goes 'those who do not remember the past are condemned to repeat it' - wipe history out and you have no reference as a guidance to do better. Intelligent and well thought out debate wins more converted hearts than people bellowing at each other and trying to bully others into submission.
Lionel
11th Sep 2020
0
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ArtfulDodger
12th Sep 2020
1
Thanks for voting!
Absolutely! It is crucial that Britain remembers history and the shameful part it played in the slave trade and the Britons who made fortunes from it. These things have been covered over for far to long, with statues of some of the worst offenders.
Len33
14th Sep 2020
1
Thanks for voting!
With an attitude like yours, we will never move forwards.
I expect that you think it's right to go on demonstrations
and smash thing up. just because you are offended.

Well, grow up and get a real life, the country isn't going to
stand still and wait for the likes of you to be unoffended!

.
AnnieChimo
3 days ago
0
Thanks for voting!
That's so well put and I agree wholeheartedly! Good to see there are still people around with a strong backbone who are not afraid to speak their minds. Thank you.
Shelfside
4 hours ago
0
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Well said - and if I didn't know any better, I'd put a few bob on 'ArtfulDodger' being deliberately provocative...virtually trolling this particular thread.
And surely nobody this side of sanity believes that statues of those with connections to slavery were put up to celebrate that fact. Was the statue of Nelson Mandela in parliament Square erected to celebrate his acts of and encouragement of terrorism? Probably not...

Don't forget at one stage even Amnesty international wouldn't represent him - a fact conveniently forgotten by many who revere that individual.
Shelfside
7th Sep 2020
2
Thanks for voting!
Bit by bit, our culture, values and even our way of life is being chipped away. It is evident everywhere, this is racist, that is racist, this cannot be criticised, that cannot be criticised...and so it goes on.

Schoolchildren are being battered into submission to stay on message, to question the message is racist, backward or both. There is no room for free expression, no room for expressing concern or dislike for anything that makes one uncomfortable, unless it’s the leftists who have concerns.

You only have to objectively watch the BBC for a day or two to pick up the way things are going, its journalistic standards are increasingly on message. ITV isn’t much better, adverts are increasingly biased towards that which - it has to be said - not the norm.
I could go on, and be more blunt and to the point, but in today’s climate one has to be careful about how much to say. How sad and pathetic is that?

I’m not a racist, even saying that is perceived as the opposite by many, but I am getting fed up with being told that by having some of the views I have, by expressing certain opinions, that I am. I’m fed up with being told that I have ‘white privilege’...

Movements such as BLM, and the constant braying that everything is ‘institutionally racist’, the seemingly enforced and increased flow of non British culture and practices is divisive. It’s polarising our country and will only serve the extremists.

Feel free to call me whatever you like, racist, gammon, Islamophobe etc etc...but I know that I’m not. I just want to express my opinion, my right to free speech and air my frustrations with what is happening in our society today. I’m not a stranger in my own country yet (forget the fact that I live in Germany for the purpose of this rant) but I’ve never been so far removed from it, and I’m genuinely scared for the future.

Whew!
ArtfulDodger
8th Sep 2020
0
Thanks for voting!
You live in Germany. In honesty, I think that reduces your credibility in commenting on current life in the UK. There are many of us who actually live here who have a very different perception to yourself. That said, you have been able to freely express your views, without getting shouted down, and that in itself seems to refute some of the claims you have made.
Shelfside
8th Sep 2020
0
Thanks for voting!
My views hold pretty fast on western Europe in general, what’s happening in the UK is happening in a similar way in Germany and elsewhere. With the exception of my wife and I, all of my family live in the UK. Just because I’m a few hours away does not make too much of a difference. I am neither blind or deaf.

I travel (or did pre Covid) to London on a semi regular basis and have noted these past few years many changes and not just the obvious demographic ones. Changes that are slowly but surely erasing Britishness (for loss of a better word) for a way of life that is regulated by political correctness and conformity to the message.

You may disagree with what I say or feel, and of course that’s your prerogative, and you’re right, I haven’t been shouted down - on here at least.

However, I do contribute, if you will, to several other online forums, and it is revealing (and disappointing) at the scope of censorship some of them apply. In short it is a case of leftist liberal views and opinion good - non leftist views bad. Criticism, questioning and lampooning of British culture, institutions and dare I say it, even Christianity good, criticism, questioning and lampooning of minority culture, institutions and religion (one in particular) bad.

You may laugh at me, disagree with me, shake your head in despair at me - but the fascism of the left is very evident. One day we’ll all wake up in another country...and then it will be too late.

Please feel free to reply, I welcome your comments.
ArtfulDodger
8th Sep 2020
-1
Thanks for voting!
I think you are perhaps rather too sure of your own views, which actually represent only a minority perspective in the UK. Many, many people disagree with you; this is our country too, and we actually live here, so we expect our views to be reflected fairly by Politicians and the media. You may be offended, but that's part of living in a Democracy.

Your cause would be helped by less overstatement and less use of extreme and emotive language (e.g. "fascism of the left"), which serves only to turn people away from bothering to listen to what you have to say.
Shelfside
8th Sep 2020
0
Thanks for voting!
With the greatest of respect, much of what you say proves my point. How do you know that my views are held only by a minority? You don’t...you assume. Maybe you take on board the constant propaganda spouted by the media, minority groups and certain politicians? Please don’t take offence at that comment, but it is a serious question.

I could also say that many, many people agree with what I am saying, what I am trying to get over. Take the Brexit vote for example, that was a pointer if anything was, and those who voted for it are slurred by many politicians as little Englanders, racists, dinosaurs and so on and so forth.

I can take offence as well as the next person, but what I can’t take is this constant battering of my country, the guilt I am meant to feel for parts of our history and the fact that I am meant to keep quiet and just go along with it all for fear of being labelled.

I make no apology for using phrases such as the ‘fascism of the left’. It may be emotive, but it certainly isn’t extreme. It exists. Question what is fast becoming the norm, and you’re pilloried for it. Our children are being educated - if you can call it that - to be all accepting, and to question nothing that is perceived as sacred. I hate to say it, and you may again use the words ‘emotive’ and ‘extreme’, but there are distinct similarities with the policies of a certain long dead Austrian - children are being programmed.
ArtfulDodger
8th Sep 2020
-1
Thanks for voting!
Sorry, but as I said before, you seem rather too sure of your own views and fail to recognise that many, many people, who actually live in the UK, hold very different views, which in a modern democracy they have every right to do, rather than being hectored by right wing ideology. Its our country too, and we do actually live here. We expect our views to be reasonably represented in the media; we give little credence to those who sloganise and use extreme and emotive language to slur us. That never wins any rational argument and it certainly doesn't find traction among the younger generation who have learned to think for themselves.
Shelfside
8th Sep 2020
2
Thanks for voting!
You are - if you like or not - proving my point. You talk about being ‘hectored by right wing ideology’...where? If anything the opposite is true, the left pull the strings. Our history is rubbished, our culture is rubbished, our concerns ignored. It is one way traffic.

Take the BBC News for instance, only the other day two items followed in quick succession, the first about the awful mosque attacks in New Zealand carried out by ‘a white supremacist’. The next item was about the Manchester Arena attack, which was ‘a terrori attack’...what kind of ‘terrorist’? Surely it isn’t a crime or racism to tell the uncomfortable truth, that it was an attack carried out by an Islamist? What can be wrong with reporting the whole truth? Why does it appear that some sections of our community are wrapped in political cotton wool? And that’s just one example.

You mention ‘we give little credence to those who sloganise and use extreme and emotive language to slur us’. Have you missed the mass coverage of the BLM ‘demonstrations’, the ‘extreme and emotive language (used) to slur us’?

Did you miss the anti Brexit demonstrations? Ignore comments made by the likes of David Lammy, Diane Abbott, Len McCluskey made in this last year? Two of those individuals could have been making UK government policy had Corbyn won the election, and the other one pulling Corbyn’s strings.

Did you miss comments made by Doreen Lawrence regarding the Grenfell fire? Comments regularly made on BBC’s QT (before Covid interrupted studio participation) about such emotive nonsense as ‘white privilege’?

As for the younger generation thinking for themselves, I really would question that. They think and make judgement calls on what they are told, what they are ‘hectored’ with and what they are told is ‘wrong’. They are being programmed, like it or not. Just google Glenthorne High School in Sutton, Surrey - ‘the school that tried to end racism’.
elgin52
8th Sep 2020
-1
Thanks for voting!
And yet.... Brexit is happening... the Murdoch press reigns supreme...even the much-maligned BBC has just appointed a Conservative director-general (thus ensuring that the patriotic ditties which were the original subject of this discussion can continue to be sung in all their imperialist glory).

So if the Right is being, as you suggest, Shelfside, systematically suppressed, its a strange way to go about it.
ArtfulDodger
8th Sep 2020
0
Thanks for voting!
You have, I fear, got yourself lost in a world of right-wing thinking and prejudice which blinds you to the real world of 2020. Hectoring seems to be your approach and a refusal to actually consider points of view that differ from your own. Thankfully, we who live in the UK can see beyond that and we welcome the many views that our young people in particular express, unburdened as they are by years of propaganda. It is becoming their world and the old ideologies (of right or left) of the past are being cast aside.
ArtfulDodger
8th Sep 2020
2
Thanks for voting!
You are right, elgin52. The Establishment and its right-wing supporters have had some success in recent days, but those days are numbered as the younger generation become the well-educated, free thinking decision makers. We can either wear ourselves out with a reactionary fight against it, or accept that the world is changing and it is not for us to dictate to those who follow us.
Shelfside
8th Sep 2020
-2
Thanks for voting!
To my detriment I should have read your earlier posts on this thread, as your agenda is so set. Pointless really for me to say any more to you, apart from repeating my view that you have proved or are proving my point.

And it matters not if I currently live in the UK or not - and you don’t know why I’m based in Germany either. My views are formed by seeing the way things are going, questioning without blind nodding dog obedience, both of which seem to be ‘right wing’ and not ‘considering (other) points of view’.

You again have proven that particular point too, if I disagree with your leftist way of thinking, then I’m wrong, I ‘hector’ and am blind. I’d suggest the opposite and say quite openly that it is you and those like you are the ones missing vision. Open your eyes, see what is happening for yourself and ignore the constant preaching that unless you conform you’re ‘right wing’ (so what?), a racist or just stuck in the past. They’re laughing at you.

Moving on to our young people, I pity them. They have to fit in, they cannot question why things are the way they are, they’re led by the nose by leftist, modern teaching and constant insistence on towing the party line.
Shelfside
8th Sep 2020
1
Thanks for voting!
I apologise in advance, and wish no offence, but your post does remind me so much of sixth form sociology claptrap taught by a shaggy haired beardy with leather patches on his jacket elbows, and sporting a Labour party lapel badge...
Shelfside
8th Sep 2020
1
Thanks for voting!
Brexit has long been popular with many on the left, Corbyn himself included. Go back in time and you’ll find that leftist hard liners such as Tony Benn were opposed to joining what he called the ‘undemocratic’ EU. You make the mistake that many remainers make, that Brexit was supported only by the ‘right wing’. Just not true.

Murdoch’s press reigning supreme? Not in the UK, where unless I’m mistaken his group own just two of the UK’s 10 or 11 daily newspapers, or less than 20%. Reach plc, owners of the left leaning ‘Daily Mirror’ own three, or just under 30%.

Moving on to the BBC and it’s appointment of a Conservative DG, well Tim Davie (who has been with the corporation since 2005) was a Conservative councillor in London back in the ‘90’s. Is that all you have?

Finally, you do yourself no favours with your comment about ‘patriotic ditties’ being ‘sung in all their imperialist glory’. That’s just embarrassingly cheap or embarrassingly ‘right on’. Not clever.
mercury
8th Sep 2020
2
Thanks for voting!
Absolutely agree Shelfie. Well done for expressing what many agree with, but are too lilly livered to vocalise. The programming has been going on for a while now. drip by insiduous drip. It is indeed fascism of the left and I'm just glad I'll be dead and gone by the time things turn really ugly and today's kids become tomorrow's Nazis.
Shelfside
8th Sep 2020
-1
Thanks for voting!
Thank you. It’s time more of us spoke up. Trouble is if we do we’re immediately slapped down by the leftists and their chums as being racists and little Englanders.

I for one have had enough.
ArtfulDodger
9th Sep 2020
0
Thanks for voting!
Having lost the debate, you now resort to insult. Sadly, the all too common response from those who have overdosed on right-wing propaganda.
Shelfside
9th Sep 2020
0
Thanks for voting!
Lost the argument...resorting to insult...overdose on right-wing propaganda?

I would suggest something rather different in that you have lost the argument. You cannot take retorts that call into question your overdosed on left-wing propaganda woke mind, and as such you reply with the all too common response you and your ilk arrogantly and ignorantly are so fond of.

Insult? Behave yourself!
ArtfulDodger
10th Sep 2020
0
Thanks for voting!
I leave the last word with you, as you clearly want to have it. Good luck with your life in Germany.
Shelfside
10th Sep 2020
0
Thanks for voting!
Your last sentence was both petty and revealing. Last word? You invited it.
AnnieChimo
3 days ago
1
Thanks for voting!
Shelfside, I totally agree. I despair with what's going on in our country! It's being totally ruined! I can honestly say that your views are shared by an awful lot of people. We are not the minority, as has been suggested!
Shelfside
3 days ago
1
Thanks for voting!
Absolutely. Trouble is there are too many people afraid of standing up, voicing their genuine concerns and their worries about the way things are going. Unless you are on message you’re one of many shaking head in despair little Englanders - a racist, an Islamophobe, an imperialist, a ‘gammon’...and always living in the past.

Not all of us - young or old - are happy with ‘modern Britain’, we don’t all worship at the altar of a teenage Swede, take a knee with the thugs of BLM, wish to eradicate our past in favour of some airbrushed melting pot...we don’t all think our history is clothed in negativity or ‘white supremacy’ (as one on here has alluded to), we don’t all want to follow the message...

The way I see it - and have done since my university days - is that Britain is a great place to live in (as evidenced by the immigration figures, especially from the third world), but to live in it is to buy into it. Keep your culture, your beliefs and your nuances - but do not try and impose them on the country and the people you have chosen to live in/with.

Our country may have a shady past in many respects (which country does not?), but the past is another country. Let is stay that way.
viking
7th Sep 2020
1
Thanks for voting!
I do not like listening to or watching rapper music, this is usually performed by dare we say b........... artists. Does this make me racist ??? So those people that do not like traditional Last Night of the Proms, do not have to watch it or to sing the words that they find so offensive.
JOHN4
6th Sep 2020
1
Thanks for voting!
It wouldn't be so bad if this was an isolated incident but this cancelling of British culture is now endemic.
ArtfulDodger
7th Sep 2020
1
Thanks for voting!
I suspect there are numerous views among the UK population as to what actually constitutes "British culture". It would be interesting to know your definition. Perhaps on a new thread?
viking
8th Sep 2020
0
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If you do not know "actually" what British culture involves then please do not enter into a discussion. British culture defies definition.
ArtfulDodger
8th Sep 2020
-1
Thanks for voting!
Nothing in this world "defies definition"! That's merely a cop-out.
viking
9th Sep 2020
0
Thanks for voting!
Semantics Dodger, you really do look for problems when none exist. Hate to be married to you !!
ArtfulDodger
10th Sep 2020
-2
Thanks for voting!
But a problem did exist. You claimed "British culture defies definition" which is an untrue statement, but was used as a cop-out. I hope your wife takes you to task for such behaviour.
viking
11th Sep 2020
1
Thanks for voting!
As there seems so little of it in these threads, try defining LOVE !!
viking
12th Sep 2020
0
Thanks for voting!
"Cop-out"
Not sure of the meaning in this context.
Cop= Slang word for a police person.
Out= Extinguished, in error, away from the inside.

Is it perhaps from the German word Kaputt= broken, finished ?
Darkstar
6th Sep 2020
4
Thanks for voting!
No. If people wish to sing along that's fine. Anyone offended by our cultures and flag, shouldn't be here.
Lionel
6th Sep 2020
1
Thanks for voting!
Exactly! When in Rome do as Rome ... or get out.
ArtfulDodger
7th Sep 2020
-1
Thanks for voting!
We are not in ancient Rome. We live in a multi-ethnic, multi-cultural society comprising people from all over the world. Perhaps those who don't like that should be the one's who look for somewhere else to live?
Lionel
7th Sep 2020
-1
Thanks for voting!
Ethnic cleansing? Interesting way forward. Has it been tried before?
elgin52
7th Sep 2020
0
Thanks for voting!
Was that not what you were suggesting with your "When in Rome" comment?
ArtfulDodger
7th Sep 2020
-1
Thanks for voting!
Eh? Ethnic cleansing? No, absolutely not, but just allowing people of whatever ethnicity to live where they feel comfortable.
elgin52
7th Sep 2020
0
Thanks for voting!
Sorry ArtfulDodger, my question was addressed to Lionel
ArtfulDodger
7th Sep 2020
0
Thanks for voting!
That's fine. Fully understood.
Shelfside
8th Sep 2020
1
Thanks for voting!
Hmm... multi-cultural? More like separate cultures truth be known, in some areas, very separate indeed.
ArtfulDodger
8th Sep 2020
-1
Thanks for voting!
In what way do you mean? The UK has long hosted a variety of cultures, more so since WW2. Its part of what makes this such a popular place to live for many, many people.
Shelfside
8th Sep 2020
0
Thanks for voting!
I accept we have hosted a variety of cultures - but never so much as we have since the ‘50’s, and never as many who do not mix, never as many (since 1066 I’d say) who are attempting to impose their way of live and culture upon us. One in particular, but I must watch what I say in free speech Britain...

As Angela Merkel herself said back in 2010, ‘...the multicultural approach has failed, utterly failed’. She also said the idea of people from different cultural backgrounds living happily ‘side by side’ did not work.

How she could go back on her words just a few years ago is truly staggering.
ArtfulDodger
6th Sep 2020
0
Thanks for voting!
An article in The Times yesterday reported that Elgar hated the words that had been put to his music, finding them "jingoistic". A man well ahead of his era.
Shelfside
8th Sep 2020
1
Thanks for voting!
AppleRose
4th Sep 2020
4
Thanks for voting!
It is a fun night I doubt many take the words seriously the crowds just enjoy it and so do a lot of foreigners who bring their flags and sing too
cerianne
4th Sep 2020
-2
Thanks for voting!
Unlike Boris, l do not feel proud of Britain’s history during the days of the Empire never mind want to sing about it. The music can be enjoyed without the white supremist type lyrics
Shelfside
8th Sep 2020
0
Thanks for voting!
‘White supremacist’! Talk about an over reaction!
Gazpacho
4th Sep 2020
1
Thanks for voting!
I have disliked L of H & G since my childhood.

Let's grow up and face the reality of now and stop looking backwards to the "glory" years of Empire.
It is over!

I find it pathetic.

We are a middle-sized European nation, who, until recently, punched above our weight.
Let's get back to making this a decent country to live in now, rather than hark back to the days of privilege, dominance and slavery.
elgin52
4th Sep 2020
2
Thanks for voting!
A temporary victory. Soon the flag-waving jingoism of the Last Night of the Proms will look as outdated as a man with a red flag walking in front of a car
Shelfside
8th Sep 2020
0
Thanks for voting!
In your leftist dreams...
SueC62
4th Sep 2020
0
Thanks for voting!
I'm pleased that this tradition will be maintained. I think many people just enjoy the spectacle and the rousing music without knowing the background.

Whilst I deplore racism, sexism, homophobia and any type of prejudice, I'm concerned that history is not re-written or obliterated. We live in more enlightened times and should use our history to ensure that the mistakes of the past are not repeated.
Yodama
3rd Sep 2020
0
Thanks for voting!
A U-turn by the BBC, the lyrics will be allowed after all, a group of singers will be trying to belt out the rousing "Land of hope and glory." That is as rousing as it is going to get.
Patronising BBC says we can all sing along at home.
A small victory at least.
ArtfulDodger
4th Sep 2020
-1
Thanks for voting!
The inevitable conclusion to a storm in a tea-cup that was, from its point of view, a helpful distraction from the Government's real woes.
jeffsoo
3rd Sep 2020
2
Thanks for voting!
In the 21st century, I think its time the BBC earned its own money like all other TV stations.
jeffsoo
2nd Sep 2020
2
Thanks for voting!
We won, sort of.....
Lionel
3rd Sep 2020
1
Thanks for voting!
Well, we won for this year. So far little is known about the new BBC top dog so we wait with bated breath to see what aberrations he comes up with.
fre55die
2nd Sep 2020
4
Thanks for voting!
I was fortunate enough to go to the Last Night Of The Proms quite a few times. It always amazed me that, unlike myself, almost everybody of the overseas visitors whether Black, Chinese or any other nationality knew the words of ALL OF the songs and very vocally sang along to them. So they were obviously proud to be classified as part of our Commonwealth of nations.
FrancesD12
1st Sep 2020
11
Thanks for voting!
Oh for God's sake! When is all this nonsense going to end? The BBC is, as usual, jumping in the 'over the top' politically correct, bandwagon.
At the same time that the indigenous people of Africa were being sold to white slave owners, little boys were being shoved up chimneys in this country, women were being married off to men they didn't know, little girls were being put into service in houses or on the land. Romany Gypsies, although they travelled from farm to farm doing essential seasonal work, were being vilified, all in slavery of one sort or another. In the West Country there were more white men and women taken from the coast to be slaves in North Africa than there were Black slaves in the same district. Now in our times, if you are black, white yellow or sky blue pink, you get free health service, free education, social services and support. What are all these people griping about? I no longer know if I can say in a description, he was black! I cannot wear my hair in tight curls in case I am accused of racial misappropriation! Much of this rubbish is pushed at us by the BBC, which we have to pay for! Something wrong there I think! I will not be tuning in to the Last Night of the Proms for the first time in many years. Shame on you BBC
Internet
1st Sep 2020
5
Thanks for voting!
Lets keep our traditions, the current generation cannot be held resposible for what happened in the past. I'm sure there are lots of people who can find something in their past that was, according to current standards, now unacceptable.
JillR3
31st Aug 2020
4
Thanks for voting!
Let people sing these age old hymns/songs of love and pride in our country - all lives matter. Lets stop over-analysing everything the BBC should follow the will of its licence payers - it costs enough.
mercury
30th Aug 2020
-3
Thanks for voting!
Yes. By all means let's muzzle any signs of patriotism and bend the knee to liberal UK-haters - makes perfect sense to me.

On the other hand, Proms attendees could just sing along whether or not the orchestra is "instructed" to stop playing, if indeed they have the guts..
ArtfulDodger
30th Aug 2020
1
Thanks for voting!
I didn't think there would be "attendees" in this COVID19 year.
Kilmanorth
30th Aug 2020
7
Thanks for voting!
I think the BBC should be defunded, why should have to pay for this biased organisation, they should have to rely on advertising like other channels.
Casualgrey
29th Aug 2020
10
Thanks for voting!
The SS vote shows how we think with 90% wanting the lyric as we have always done .What are the BBC playing at. If the people who live in our country don't want to hear the music in it entirety ,switch to another channel.
I for one am proud to be an Englishman as are Scots, to be Scots and Welsh and Irish etc and anybody else that whats to be proud (I'm sure someone will pick holes in that statement) but I am also of the opinion that if people don't like it here they have 2 options .... shut up or move on . History cant be changed whether people like it or not. How dare people with minority thoughts dictate to the majority and end up winning.
If this was the norm when we have an election the majority party would be in opposition
BarbaraM113
29th Aug 2020
11
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We certainly should not be bullied into a situation where the lyrics are banned from Anthems. Land of Hope and Glory and Rule Britannia were never meant to only be instrumentals. Every country on this planet has their own National Anthems. I know this is difficult to comprehend by those at the BBC and their woke supporters but that's a fact. Should the German people lose the lyrics to Deutschlandia or Deutschland Uber Alles? Or the French not sing the lyrics to L Marseillaise? Good luck with that! Let's put common sense first and stop being so insular.
Abbijen s
29th Aug 2020
9
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It is an English tradition. We are in England. We shouldn't ditch our traditions. Where will it end.
Valleyman
29th Aug 2020
7
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The BBC seem hell-bent on self-destruction. The proms appear to be yet another attempt to alienate the British public. The over 75's free licences were part of a deal they agreed to and reneged on. It will be interesting to see if the BBC report the arrest and imprisonment of scores of elderly people for not paying their telly tax. They claim lack of funds while at the same time proposing to spend £100 million on "diversity" programming. The BBC "news" is laughably woke and prejudiced against the values and culture of Britain.
But presumably the Corporation is run by intelligent people? How could they get it all so wrong?
In their eyes they have not. It's hard for us to conceive how insular the North London politics and media "elite" are. They clearly believe they are right, the rest of the country is wrong, and needs to be educated. They despise the ageing population they rely upon for for their funding.
A few years ago I would have laughed at the idea of a Marxist/Communist plot to overthrow our country. But after the rise of Jeremy Corbyn and John McDonald, and our close escape from disaster in the election, I realised things had definitely changed. I found a good explanation of how subversive plots work in one of Akkad Daily's videos.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tWEmvQmndI8
It is very familiar. A twenty year plan to infiltrate the education system and shape the minds of children and young people. The demoralising of the population, spreading doubt and distrust of it's institutions, e.g. the police.
The closing down of free speech.
It's not a secret, and unfortunately it's not paranoia.
Defunding the BBC would be a great start, but we'll probably continue to pay for it through income tax rather than the licence. The younger generation would have eventually refused to shell out for something they never use.
Well, adapt or die they say. Long live the comrades!
Yodama
29th Aug 2020
4
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Absolutely spot on!
ArtfulDodger
29th Aug 2020
0
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Don't worry, older people will not be arrested and imprisoned for failure to pay their Licence fees, as the vast vast majority of the population do faithfully, but they will be visited by Debt Collectors!
mrShifter
5th Sep 2020
1
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The BBC is partly funded by the EU...they don’t want to lose that money. Lineker and his millionaire friends rely on it!
Valleyman
6th Sep 2020
1
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Too right mrShifter!
Springtime20
29th Aug 2020
4
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We should remember it was England, specifically William Wilberforce, who passed a bill in parliament to end slave trading!
viking
31st Aug 2020
2
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I have not noticed any words of praise or thanks to William Wilberforce from BLM + Extinction.
Will they be out with the mobs to remove statues of W W ?? Don't really know on that one as they are determined to cause controvasy on any subject they feel could cause maximum trouble .
fre55die
2nd Sep 2020
1
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@ viking and @ Springtime20 They also forget that there were far more Black Slavers enslaving the Black people in Africa than there were White slavers.
LindaR4
28th Aug 2020
3
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Seriously? History is just that. Move on
alanhuntet24
28th Aug 2020
8
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Totally disgusted with the BBC & have defunded them. who do they think they are - traitors !
Lionel
28th Aug 2020
4
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Well said. Thankyou.
alimac
28th Aug 2020
11
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We are meant to be a democracy and I am fed up of theWOKE lot trying to dictate to the majority.
Lionel
28th Aug 2020
4
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tiger57
28th Aug 2020
14
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Enough is enough, this is the end of the line. We can not rewrite history and we are not responsible for the actions of our forefathers.
LindaI47
28th Aug 2020
13
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The bbc are pandering to the wishes of the minority who are criticising our history amongst other things, it is our country and our history whether good or bad and now our songs so if you are not happy with this then i suggest boycotting the bbc.
Jillo
28th Aug 2020
10
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You cannot change history and why should we want to? Just tell these protestors to get on with it!
guiness
28th Aug 2020
12
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If we all knew exactly what time they were both going to be played on the evening of the 12th we could go out into our gardens and have a national sing along
Lionel
28th Aug 2020
5
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We might yet. The problem is we live in a remote hamlet and very few would hear us. Also, I've got a voice like a bullfrog but I'd give it a go!
ArtfulDodger
29th Aug 2020
-1
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That would at least raise some laughs in this rather gloomy era in which we live.
12
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I am proud to be British
These athems are part of britush tradition
I am not responsible for what my ancestors did
But we need to remember them so it does nothappen again
As a nation we now accept that what happened was wrong but to ban music for its perceived association to slavery is ridiculous
Lionel
28th Aug 2020
7
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Well said. I'm proud to be British too!
shrew1742
30th Aug 2020
3
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I too am extremely proud to be British ( Welsh, Irish & English stock).

Also a Royalist and would dread the thought of a President Blair, Cameron or anyone else of that ilk.

However........ I have always disagreed with "God Save the Queen" being the English National Anthem. The 'NATIONAL' anthem should reflect the country and not a person. GSTQ - in my humble opinion - should only be played when Her Majesty is present.

There should have been a public survey for the English to choose their own National Anthem donkeys years ago. " I VOW TO THEE MY COUNTRY " maybe !!!!!
8
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The BBC should leave things as they were. They cannot erase our history. The singing at the end is the best part of the Proms I won’t be watching this year as it will be completely ruined for me without my favourite songs
Suefor
28th Aug 2020
10
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It’s about time we said as a Nation ‘enough is enough’. By changing words, taking statues and pictures down, etc, etc., will not change history. We should learn from history. Instead of looking back and erasing what has actually happened look at slavery today, it is still going on. Put our energy, voices and actions into stopping today’s slavery, which is as bad, if not worse, than what has gone. Worse, because we know it goes on but sit on our haunches and ignore it.

Rule Brittania and Land of Hope & Glory should be used as battle songs against today’s forms of slavery.

I, for one, will not watch Last Night at the Proms if our favourite and patriotic final songs are not played.
Trishwkinghorn
28th Aug 2020
7
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Let's not demean the sacrifices made in both World Wars to keep us free.
Lionel
28th Aug 2020
4
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Your comment touches me deeply. You are so right. Thank you.
HappyHippie
28th Aug 2020
7
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Its time to stand up and say, This nation will not be bullied, its time to stop this stupidity, we have no slaves, and as a nation we have excepted people of all colour and religions, but, its time we stopped being bullied by them. I'm British and very proud of our history, we have fought wars to help defend other nations, in the past we didn't always get it right but we have in the past striven to put it right, all this that is happening now is down to the very bigoted U.S.A so why should we have to put up with fallout..
TonyP79
28th Aug 2020
9
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No! No! No! Its music for gods sake, one a hymn I used to sing at school. Its history, you can't change it, learn from it and move on.
jane63c
28th Aug 2020
6
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The right leaning population are being manipulated by this non story. It is designed to create division and distract from the current incompetence and u turns.
ArtfulDodger
29th Aug 2020
-1
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True. Its handy for the Government to have something to moan about instead of having constantly to excuse their own U-turns and incompetence.
ecarg
28th Aug 2020
7
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Just another diversion from the real issues.
jeffsoo
27th Aug 2020
17
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No one alive today was a slave, owned a slave, or promoted slavery. We cannot be expected to change our history because some namby pamby do gooders want to feel good. How dare they.
GrannyMcVee
28th Aug 2020
8
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I'm thoroughly sick and fed up of the BBC trying to make me feel guilty for events(as terrible as they were) which occurred 300 years ago
MerylR
28th Aug 2020
-2
Thanks for voting!
neither should we be glorifying a disgusting part of our history with this jingoistic rubbish
elgin52
30th Aug 2020
-1
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Brave of you to put your head above the parapet, MerylR. I for one agree with you
Shelfside
10th Sep 2020
0
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Oh dear. Another one...
Yodama
27th Aug 2020
8
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Now the've gone too far Where is BBC's backbone?
BLM has been hijacked by a bunch of leftist activists who play the race and slave card at every opportunity. Even they cannot pinpoint actual events in history accurately.
Yet, we bend over like masochists, to receive a caning from them, wearing our guilt like sackcoloth.
Why??


Slavery and abuse of humans is thousands of years old, and is still being perpetrated today, it is not the property of black slaves ancestors alone.
God forbid all races, including white races rise up to decry their slavery and ban everything, pull down every damn statue and airbrush our history out of existence.

When and where is it going to stop? Do we now remove Elgar and Vera Lynn's headstone??

No more apologising,..BLM message has been delivered, understood and we are reminded of the horrors of the past, now let it go.!
Lionel
27th Aug 2020
9
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Yodama, no one in power is about to let this or any other controversy go. They're too useful to our political and Civil Service deviants.

As far as I'm concerned, as the descendant of European migrants, one either accepts Great Britain - not the UK - and all its strengths and weaknesses or one departs these shores for a paradise in one's own image. Preferably as far from these shore as it is possible to get.

It will serve this nation ill to give in to pressures from outside. A sovereign people must evolve steadily and naturally; be held accountable for mistakes while glorying in successes.

The Proms are but a visible symptom of outside interference which the BBC has embraced royally. Their management is as treacherous to Great Britain as Lord Haw Haw. That traitor was not paid by enforced public subscription and the bullying of over 75's.

Recalling the Carry On films, one had a title befitting what ought to be our national stance today: Carry On Regardless.
Yodama
28th Aug 2020
4
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You mention Lord Haw Haw Lionel. He used the media to the fullest extent, and so it persists, only on steroids.
When the world sees the Emperor has no clothes, they will be as mad as hell.

You say you are from immigrant stock?
If you look at the population of these Isles going back hundreds or maybe thousands of years, we are all pretty much made up of immigrants from countries around the world. We would be quite happy to live with our differences if it were not for the media whipping up a devisive onslaught.

Once again I say,.. look behind the curtain to see what is really going on in the "theatre of distraction"
While we are kept busy with the daily show of disaster, plague and rioting, plans are being put into place. When the majority of the population wake up, it will be too late to change what most of us will be horrified by.

The demise of fiat money, Bitcoin and other digital currencies will remove our privacy and freedoms
They will be able to track EVERYTHING you do.
The RFID chip is next.

Mass enforced immunisation with an untried vaccine that could have serious repercussions. Prophylactic interventions have not worked in the past due to a clever virus whose sole survival instinct is to mutate.

Anyway, the row about singing age-old lyrics at the Proms is yet another smokescreen.
Yodama
28th Aug 2020
2
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Sorry...went a bit off piste there.
Lionel
28th Aug 2020
3
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Don't think about it. We all get a bit piste at times.
Yodama
28th Aug 2020
3
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😀 😀 😀 you are funny Lionel.
spencer1
28th Aug 2020
2
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Well said i agree.
ArtfulDodger
27th Aug 2020
0
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Given the unique nature of this year's Proms, I don't think it really matters. The nationlistic songs are great fun to sing in a full Albert Hall, but, in 2020, the lyrics are complete nonsense when sung seriously by a choir.
Wilf
27th Aug 2020
1
Thanks for voting!
I think you are absolutely right its all a bit of tongue in cheek jingoistic nonsense! We have not ruled the waves since the 1850s and nowadays we have more admirals than ships! The whole thing is a total farce
Munsterlander
27th Aug 2020
4
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With all the current problems my view is -Who cares?
Wilf
27th Aug 2020
5
Thanks for voting!
It does seem a bit silly-what are we going to do next rewrite all history? A bit like the good old USSR back in the day!

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