Should Britain stay in the EU or is now the time to leave?

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The decision for the EU Referendum date has now been made, and David Cameron will invite the electorate to vote on 23rd June 2016, and decide whether the UK should stay or leave the EU.

The EU is Britain’s biggest trading partner and the countries in it our closest neighbours. The EU has bought many benefits for its members but there are still challenges. Britain has not joined the Euro and in many aspects strives to keep some independence.

There are a whole host of conflicting issues surrounding this debate. Do you feel well informed to make a considered decision about staying in or leaving the EU? should we stay or leave?  Should we risk leaving our largest economic partnership? What do you see as the major benefits of staying and those if we leave? 

Should Britain stay in the EU?

7134 people have already voted, what's your opinion? Yes No

What are your views?

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honestjohn
11th Nov 2016
0
Thanks for voting!
David Cameron stated in the run up to the referendum that if the vote was in favour of "out" he would initiate Article 50 the following morning. Instead he spat his dummy out, resigned and went scuttling off to the back benches. Just shows how much you can trust politicians!
0
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Article 50 should have been signed, sealed and delivered and we should have been out by now
Sylvia E
27th Oct 2016
0
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Despite problems and disagreements with the E U the biggest mistake this country has ever made is opting out. This silver surfer certainly did NOT vote out.
We shall certainly have time to repent at leisure .
Wilf
27th Oct 2016
1
Thanks for voting!
Although the pound is weakening some good news this morning that Nissan will build next new car models here safeguarding 7,200 jobs so Brexit has not affected this
ronniecoolbox
1st Oct 2016
1
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Well us silver surfers have done the deed and we should be very happy that once again we can be free from the mess that is developing in the EU
mikzun
25th Sep 2016
2
Thanks for voting!
I believe some still think we have an empire Long gone, we are a tiny nation i agree a great one but still tiny. As part of the EU we punch well above our weight. I think being in the EU was ok far from perfect with to many officials, but we could have worked on it.
Now we have Brexit, but what the hell is it??, The majority voted for an unknown deal/future no-one knows what the hell it will be?, our parliament has no say on the deal just one person Fuhrer May will decide. What happened to democracy & common sense all we got was an uncertain deal WE have no say in. I speak as an ex lifelong tory voter who is appalled at the loss of Democracy under a conservative government, and with no opposition to oppose them.
nelliebear
19th Sep 2016
1
Thanks for voting!
RTC, I have been reading your comments and I'm afraid to say I think you are a fraud ! If you are an oldie and if you aren't aligned to a political party your cognitive ability should make you at least 25yrs old :+)
Rosetta
20th Aug 2016
0
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I believe that the EU is also ...one world~~~globelization that type of one universe.. We are America , land of the free & brave founded under God with Liberty & justice for all.. Globalization is against that thinking. We used to be one with Britian then broke away.. Now Britian has the opportunity to break away from the EU.. It is my belief that they should take their possessions, money and stand as individuals.
Capricorn
8th Aug 2016
1
Thanks for voting!
Maggie Thatcher had to fight every year for a reduction on the accounts , we have no one of that calibre to look after our interests now.

France was awarded Agriculture and Spain awarded Fish. Both were a bitter blow for us , gone are Granny Smith apples , the quality of Apples available now is poor, as are English Strawberries.

The quality of vegetables is poor too ., gone are King Edward and the like.

Cameron, while trying to get some concessions from the EU to stay in the EU lent the EU 1 million Euros "ringfenced" as Osborne was quick to point out. This at a time when the NHS is broke and the Steel Industry facing closure.
Bryn
8th Jul 2016
0
Thanks for voting!
I feel 1.5% majority is not enough for such an important decision.
Hawke008
22nd Jun 2016
5
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Markus Kerber, head of the highly influential BDI, which represents German industry, has said that his organisation will press politicians in Europe hard to make sure businesses in the UK and the EU retain full, equal access to each other's markets after Lexit. Anything less would threaten jobs on both sides and serve no-one – least of all the Eurozone, which is in desperate trouble.
This intervention, which confirms what Leave campaigners have being saying for a long time, is a huge game changer, and should reassure voters that British businesses have everything to gain and nothing to lose if we strike out from the EU as an independent, self-governing democracy with full powers to enhance our trading opportunities worldwide.
Roof Top Crow
22nd Jun 2016
-1
Thanks for voting!
Judging by the consistent level of thumbs downticks I know that my views are not those held by most other Silversurfers.

What I do not understand is the very strongly held view that the UK would be better off outside of the EU.

Maybe it is immigration. Both the Leave campaign and the Remain campaign were on the TV last night and they both strongly supported immigration. Neither side had a plan for reducing immigration. Without immigration, we all know that the NHS, care homes, and public services would fail. So it cannot be that.

Maybe its is the economy. But in EU membership, we have become the 5th strongest economy in the world and the 2nd strongest in the EU. On last night's TV, both Gove and Johnson agreed that voting to leave would drop us into recession triggering high unemployment and the misery that goes with being out of work. So it cannot be that.

Maybe it is security. But both sides agree that NATO, the USA, the Commonwealth Countries and all the EU countries say we are safer in membership of the EU. So it cannot be that.

Maybe it is sovereignty. But the only areas where we have given up singular UK decision making is in things like air traffic control, security, health and safety, pollution control, scientific research and no one is saying we should change those things. So it cannot be that.

Maybe it is Boris. He is a very good speaker but as we witnessed last night he never gives facts he just does some very clever rabble rousing. He does it with his little boy lost body language and a child little stutter. But even my granny could have seen through that performance and level of insincerity. So it cannot be that, well I hope not.

Reading though Silversurfers posts from other members I get the impression that we are all very nervous about the future. The things we have always taken for granted such as cheque books, post offices, DHS, and pubs are all disappearing and it makes us feel that life is being changed without asking us if this is what we want.

It could be that many people think that by voting to Leave we will somehow stop life moving so fast and changing so fast. That is not a sensible and realistic approach, we have to accept that life is changing very fast and the younger generations know how to live and work in this world and we do not.

We senior citizens must come to our senses. The world has changed and we have to hand over the future to the next generations, the generations in the future that will work and drive the economy and society forward.

Voting to leave the EU would hold back our children and hold back our grandchildren for years to come. The UK would become a historic backwater in the history of the world.

PS.
Farage has just backed out of the C4 debate that was scheduled for 9pm. Farage quoted family reasons.
Not sure what to make of this, maybe hop poisoning has overwhelmed him, or maybe a recognition that sharing a stage with clever intelligent people has led to a mental lack of confidence
Think of the future, think of the next generations and not just yourself.

Now it is up to you, just be sensible, do not take a risk on the future and vote to Remain.

Signing off as Roof Top Crow.

And thanks to the editorial team for being so patient with us
2
Thanks for voting!
Thank you Roof Top Crow for your contribution to our Forums over the last few months ... I guess it is over to us all now to think carefully about our choice and follow our gut and instinct now!
viking
22nd Jun 2016
5
Thanks for voting!
Ok rooftop, if you feel that you are able to obtain so much information from Google, I will look forward to see a short breakdown of GDP figures, in particular Greece who had their actual figures "massaged" by Brussels to assist them in obtaining membership.As we now know, trying to tie in different economies just does not work and never will. The Greek people now are experiencing extreme hardship due to the dreams of Germany in controling the whole of Europe [in time of course !]

Incidentally, if UK does leave, how will the EEC be able to make up the loss of our huge contribution [ the 3rd largest to the EEC ].This figure of course will be corrected by rooftop from information obtained from his favourite website !!
It's no wonder that all the heirachy from Europe want us in !!
Roof Top Crow
22nd Jun 2016
-1
Thanks for voting!
Not much time before I sign off from this forum, so I will be brief.

It was Goldman Sachs who distorted the figures on behalf of the Greek Government.They stepped down following this debacle.

It was nothing to do with the Greek working population. Nothing to do with the Euro and certainly nothing to do with Germany or Brussels.

Rather than taking the time to dramatise the hardship and suffering that the Greek population are experiencing you should post some answers on how Greece should trade its way out of the situation it finds itself in.

Your last paragraph does not make sense so I cannot reply.
Wilf
22nd Jun 2016
0
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Greek unemployment for the under 25s is about 45%
Catrina700
22nd Jun 2016
2
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No, It's your shabby outfit that will rig the vote.
Roof Top Crow
22nd Jun 2016
-1
Thanks for voting!
Which shabby outfit is that ? I think we need a bit more definition.
Roof Top Crow
21st Jun 2016
-3
Thanks for voting!
You Gov has just published a poll.
64% of UKIP supporters believe that the vote will be rigged and about the same number say that Leave will win.
.
Are they sayin that UKIP is rigging the polls. I think we need to be told.
Ariadne
21st Jun 2016
8
Thanks for voting!
When we, the English inhabitants of this country become the minority group, as we surely will.When our coffers run dry, will we still be besieged by immigrants ,who supposedly come here for
a better life, but cannot speak ,or understand English, but they do
know where the Benefits offices are.
Time to Vote for keeping out of the E .U.
Roof Top Crow
21st Jun 2016
-3
Thanks for voting!
Migrants living in the UK represent approximately 11% of the population. But it is not as easy as that because that figure includes the following :
1. Someone whose country of birth is different to their country of residence.
2. Someone whose nationality is different to their country of residence.
I could go on with all the different categories and definitions within 1. and 2. But I leave you to look at Migration Statistics on the House of Commons library website.

For all of us who live in the cities, immigrants will include neighbours who work and pay tax, shopkeepers who work and pay tax, care workers who work and pay tax, NHS staff who work and pay tax and certainly friends who work and pay tax. They are all immigrants and they contribute more than they take out in benefits.
If our coffers were to run dry then immigrants will certainly stop coming because there will be no work. To follow that logic it is obvious that the brightest and the best of our young people would then emigrate abroad as they would not be able to find work either.
MorrisandDoris
22nd Jun 2016
5
Thanks for voting!
Nobody knows how many illegal immigrants there are this country not even you.
So we have the black economy paying no tax
Plus a very high proportion of single immigrants salaries are sent back to their home countries which is fine but puts into prospective,this country is not called The Royal Bank of Poland and Romania for nothing!
As for immigrants not coming to the UK if the job market fell, you haven't understood what the black economy is, crime like drug dealing ,pick pockets etc will attract a certain types of criminal here its like Christmas everyday to some of these people soft prisons and not much chance of being deported.
So you really need to get out more and stop filling your head with meaningless facts and figures and see the country and the EU as it is and not like some Idealistic utopia.

Don't forget to vote OUT tomorrow you know it makes sense !
Wilf
22nd Jun 2016
-2
Thanks for voting!
I think most of the immigrants are coming here as wages are so much higher than back home...6x in the case of Roumania. I have to say if it was the other way round I and a lot of Brits would have been working out there!
Hawke008
17th Jun 2016
8
Thanks for voting!
A while back RoofTopCrow (RTC) derided a post on another Silversurfers forum that included material posted on a different social media site by one Betsy MacKay MA MSc. RTC posted that because Mrs MacKay had referred in one of her posts to her Christianity and her Christian beliefs she was somehow deluded and should not be taken seriously.

Having briefly scanned through many of the posts on this and another Silversurfers forum I believe that RTC is quite possible a Remain plant, an agent provocateur, who possibly is being primed with information by the Cameron/Osborne apparatchiks. He has made comments that do not stand up to scrutiny, for example he has said that all the Commonwealth countries want us to stay in, but Australia and New Zealand to name just two say we would be better off out.

He says he is 72 but then denigrates 'old' people, with the inference being that because people are old they have lost their marbles! He clearly states that old people don't know how business works these days and how much it has changed. Well I'm an old person who was once employed in 'traditional' industry,
I changed tack some 40 years ago and over those past years founded my own businesses. I have been part of the computer age and am still part of the digital age. I have friends and many acquaintances of a similar age and background and I can assure RTC that we are all well aware of the how the requirements of business have changed; we are well aware of the reality of who we are today, we are not stupid or backward looking.

I, like many others here, was fed a tissue of lies from politicians of all hues when the EEC or 'Common Market' was mooted and subsequently. Politicians who were well aware that the British public would have rebelled had we known the truth of what the Common Market was designed to transform into, hid their agenda to tie us into a united states of Europe led by Germany.

The EU was conceived, birthed and nurtured in lies. Jean Monnet one of the founding fathers of the EU stated that, ”Europe’s nations should be guided towards the superstate without their people understanding what is happening. This can be accomplished by successive steps, each disguised as having an economic purpose, but which will eventually and irreversibly lead to federation.”.
Roof Top Crow
21st Jun 2016
-3
Thanks for voting!
Jean Monnet died in 1979.
It is very confusing, some say that these were his words and others attribute these words to other people.

There were 8 founding fathers including Churchill. There are no clear records of who said what.

There is a huge amount of information about the formation of the EC including stacks of conspiracy theories.

I have to say that the words successive "steps being disguised as having an economic purpose" seem completely different from the style of writing being used at that time.
MorrisandDoris
21st Jun 2016
4
Thanks for voting!
I agree with you on this one ,I think RTC is a mole too he has so much information at hand I'm convinced he's being sent it from a government department ,everything he says is in a politicians format loads of meaningless facts and figures.
He thinks he knows everything about the EU workings and tells us what a disaster it would be if we left,nobody knows for sure what will happen but one thing is that the UK will survive out of the EU.
Glad for the Crow that it ends on Thursday because I think his head would explode if it went on any longer!
Roof Top Crow
18th Jun 2016
-5
Thanks for voting!
Not much to say about Betsy M Mackay. On Facebook, she talks about this hidden group within Bilderberg who control the whole world and says leaving the EU will stop the UK being controlled by this hidden group.
But if they control the whole world then, of course, they will still control the UK if we remain in the EU or leave the EU.

My reference to Christianity referred to her publishing a list of the 10 things that God has said directly said to the Queen of England.

I am not and I have never been a member of a political party. I have no contact with any political party. Being part of this forum or any other Silversurfers forum does not oblige me to agree with what is being posted. Far from it, the value in online forums is that contributors are able to put forward different opinions.

Australia. The Australian Foreign Secretary said in April 2016. Please stay in we do not want you to leave the EU.

New Zealand. The New Zealand Prime Minister said in April 2016. Please stay in the EU it is better for us and better for you.

At 72 I am a realist about age. As we all get older our bodies wear out and our brains slowly degrade. In sport, we see people slowing down and apart from a few exceptions most of the world's top athletes retire in their 30s and 40s.
In the sectors of life where mental capability and judgement is of prime importance, the early 60s seems to be the point at which people step back from work. For example, the average age of a UK judge is 65 and the intention is to bring this down to 60.

The reality is that a lot of us older people know how to use modern technology such as Twitter, Facebook, Whats App and all the others but that is in our private life, business is different.

The average age of a board member of a public company is 56. If you look at the average age of the leaders in the IT industries it is the late 30s. This does not happen by chance, it happens because people at these ages are at their best.

I am not sure what you mean by hidden agendas and the hidden truth. On this forum I have often asked for an example of the lies we have been told, I have never had any replies.

Your last paragraph contradicts the history of the EU
MorrisandDoris
21st Jun 2016
5
Thanks for voting!
I suspect you are a mole Mr Crow being fed all your information from a government department here or in Brussels .
You are so confident that you know what's going to happen if the out vote wins ,but in reality you don't have a clue .
There's a very good chance that more member countries will want to leave if we go ,that is the real worry for the Brussels EU Elite the gravy train might get derailed .
If the vote on Thursday is for Out don't feel too bad ,you did your best to swing the vote here on Silversurfers ,I'm just surprised though that your head hasn't exploded before now with all the information you have!
Roof Top Crow
21st Jun 2016
-1
Thanks for voting!
I have said it before. I am not and have never been a member of a political party. I am a man in my 70s with some computer skills. These minimal skills give me access to freely available information that is published by the newspapers, radio stations, Wikipedia, universities, academic studies and so on. Everything you want to know is available online.

I am regularly criticised on Silversurfers forums for knowing too much and having too much information. This is an extraordinary criticism, having information means that anybody and that includes me can make balanced and sensible decisions. Not having enough information means that people and that includes me cannot make balanced and sensible decisions.

To criticise someone because they know too much and have too much information is so daft that it is not worth commenting further.
Hawke008
18th Jun 2016
5
Thanks for voting!
Thank you for your comments.

I am the same age as you and far from being ONLY able to use Twitter et al, I am still using modern technology in business environments; whilst officially retired I remain an internet consultant to a number of companies including start up technology companies. I have yet to find a '30 year old' who thinks I am past it!.

From an admittedly fairly brief scan through your contributions it appears a common theme that you denigrate people that don't conform your views. You seem to think that all 'old' people lack the mental ability to be thoroughly savvy about modern business practices and the latest technology, in that you are sadly misguided. Perhaps, as you have such a low opinion of us oldies, you should find another forum to expound your views, as you clearly think we silver surfers are past it.

It is clear from all your comments that you are allied to the 'in' campaign, so it is not surprising that you deride the comments of those who seek to remove the shackles of the EU from Britain.

Regarding the last paragraph of my previous post I suggest that you remove the EU blinkers and look up Jean Monnet on your beloved Google. Monnet's statement was and is part of the blueprint for the EU; the vast majority of the steps set out by Monnet have been achieved over the past 40 years, that is a fact, as is the fact that successive British Prime Ministers have withheld the truth of what joining the EEC - Common Market - would evolve into.

I tend to dip in and out of various social media sites as and when I have time, so if I don't respond immediately to your posts, it's because I have more pressing things to do.
Roof Top Crow
20th Jun 2016
-2
Thanks for voting!
I do not agree that I denigrate the views of people who do not agree with me.

What I do know is that the response I get to my views is very robust and occasionally very personal. A couple of days ago even the way I look in my photo was criticised.

The forum gives people a simple solution to agreeing or disagreeing with what I have posted. The thumbs up and the thumbs down symbols. I have a lot of thumbs down symbols.

Anyway, I am off to a lecture later today on design driven Artificial Intelligence and its application in marketing. I think it will be a challenge to understand.
deffay
16th Jun 2016
7
Thanks for voting!
Dear Mr. Crow
You have written much about how 'old people' should feel, vote; - and not feel because we are too old to feel any sort of impact after! But we Do feel, just because it was our generation who got us into all this, and just because it is our own families who are to be affected.
You write "Sadly I have come to the conclusion that older people are not aware of how society works today and do not know what is possible in the world and what is not" HOW DARE YOU !
Roof Top Crow
20th Jun 2016
-1
Thanks for voting!
A very basic fact of life is that as we age our bodies wear out and our mental ability degrades.

In sport, we see people slowing down and apart from a few exceptions, the world's top athletes retire in their 30s and 40s. In the sectors of life where mental capability and judgement is of prime importance, people start to be withdrawn from high levels of responsibility in their 60s. A good example is the judiciary, where the average age of a UK judge is 65 and the intention is to bring this down to 60.

Us oldies have been part of an extraordinary success story. The UK economy was on its knees in 1957 when we joined the EU. Today we are a successful and wealthy country and we should now pass on the responsibility of the UK to the next generations.

Us oldies might be aware of the massive changes that our kind of world is going through and how technology is changing everybody's lives. But we do not know how to be part of it and we do not understand how it will change the future.

Our obligation is to not stand in the way of the younger generations who do understand technology and know how to use technology.

We must not block the future by imagining that we can turn the clock back and return to how life was in the 50s and 60s that would just be selfish.

Voting to leave would be a negative and retrograde step. The UK must be part of the EU and being part of the EU gives us access to the rest of the world. Voting leave would make us an isolated and much less wealthy country.

We must give the decisions about the future to the next generations and they want to stay in the EU. Do not stand in their way, you must vote to remain.
nanan45
16th Jun 2016
5
Thanks for voting!
Britain should leave the EU
Roof Top Crow
16th Jun 2016
-5
Thanks for voting!
As we lead up to the Referendum the TV news stations are interviewing people in the street and asking people if they will vote to Leave or vote to Remain.
Typically they do this between 11am in the morning and 3pm in the afternoon. Inevitably the people they interview are not working because working people are not shopping in the middle of the day. The people being interviewed are almost always aged 65 or over and the majority say they will vote to leave.
These are people like me, in my 70s and an old person. Older people like me will not have to manage the result of the Referendum, we will not have to manage the chaos and decline that will follow a vote to leave. The chaos and decline that will follow voting leave will have to be managed by the younger generations, including those that have not yet started to work.
In the past couple of days, I have seen old people being interviewed on the TV. It quickly becomes clear that they do not understand how business and industry works nowadays and how much it has changed from when they worked.
When we all started to work it was all about industry, manufacturing and physical labour. Men worked and the majority of women worked as housewives. Nowadays most of our manufacturing and industry has gone, and it will not come back. Our strength is mainly in the service and technology sectors, and there are as many jobs and careers available for women as there are for men.
The older people being interviewed on TV talk about making our way in the world, talk about being the best in the world, talk about being independent, talk about our unique skills. All of this romantic nonsense is spoken as though it is the 1920’s and the world was just starting to open up to business and the UK could bring them exciting new products and work practices.
Sadly I have come to the conclusion that older people are not aware of how society works today and do not know what is possible in the world and what is not.
The cold hard reality is that the UK represents just 0.88% of the 7.4 billion people who live in the world. As members of the EU, we can and do fight above our own weight but if the UK votes to leave the EU we will slowly and very politely disappear.
Older people need to wake up to the reality of who we are today and not who we were in our past. The UK belongs to the younger generations, not older people like you and me. If us old people do nothing else we must leave behind a legacy of success and a bright future.
Older people like you and me do not want to be remembered as the generation that chose to vote leave, the generation that chose to pull up the drawbridge and the generation that chose to send the UK into obscurity.
MorrisandDoris
17th Jun 2016
3
Thanks for voting!
Yet again you write with passion in your arguement for remaining in the EU and write with confidence or maybe even arrogance that you actully know what you are talking about.
Your facts and figures research are impressive but to know the price of everything but the value of nothing is not!
The out campaign is mainly based on Sovereignty, Border Control, mass uncontrolled immigration and security issues.
I wonder what area of the country you live in to have your views on immigration.
Roof Top Crow
19th Jun 2016
-2
Thanks for voting!
Like many people, I believe that self-respect and respect for other people creates a balanced and harmonious society. In our UK society, we have a mix of capitalism which is applauded and social welfare which is all to often sneered at.

Having a job in our society creates self-respect, having a job means having money. Having a job means having a family and all of the other values we prize so highly in the UK. Not having a job and claiming welfare leads towards the lack of self-respect and the respect of others.

The cold hard reality is that voting to Leave the EU will drive us into a recession. The leave campaign agrees and Michael Gove agreed that voting leave will force us into recession on the TV this morning.

The IMF has given another warning that voting to leave will trigger a recession, the Bank of England has given another warning that voting leave will trigger a recession and just about every independent financial authority in the world has said voting to leave will trigger a recession.

We should not take recession casually and say it will all be OK in a few years time, it is far more important than that. Recession means a period of economic decline which is marked by high unemployment and a drop in salaries and wages.

Voting to leave will trigger a recession and put thousands of people out of work.

By Sovereignty, you mean making our own laws. The House of Commons library says that EU laws represent around 9% to 13% of the legislation that is voted on. Most of this defines commonly agreed standards on science, agriculture and security.
Border Control I will combine with immigration. Take away immigration and we will fall into recession. On a more practical level immigrants work in jobs that UK citizens do not want. Agriculture and care homes are two obvious examples.
Security. The principle that being part of a team is stronger than being an individual must apply here. Trade unions, team sports, and armed forces are all obvious examples of why it is better working with our EU partners than doing it by ourselves.

I live in one of the areas of the UK that have very high levels of immigration. In my everyday day life, I can see the contribution immigrants makes to society. Shops, transport, social services and more.
deffay
16th Jun 2016
5
Thanks for voting!
I read all the articles, some useful information, but at the end of the day I will vote a very big NO because the thought of 'greater political union' horrifies me. Did we not fight 2 World Wars to stop German dominence?
viking
16th Jun 2016
3
Thanks for voting!
I have looked at the very detailed replies from Roof Top, and it would appear that we have a "mole" in our midst ! Either declare yourself Sir, or tell us where and how you are able to obtain such detailed information, which is not available to the general public.
Roof Top Crow
16th Jun 2016
-2
Thanks for voting!
As I have said before I am not a politician and I have never been a member of a political party. I am a long retired 72-year-old ex-business person who has some computer skills. I also like gardening, cooking, and DIY.
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Information.
Information is very easy to find and nowadays nothing is secret or hidden. Type the question into Google and within seconds, you will get back pages of information. For example, Google led me to the European Court of Auditors website. All of the information was there in 2 pages.
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I read The Times, The Telegraph and The New Statesman in paper format. Online I find the BBC has a lot of very factual information on its website and Sky is very good at simplifying the facts. CNN and some of the EU stations are very good at giving an outside view.

I get lots of stuff through my letterbox from the vote Leave and the vote Remain campaigns. I go through the same process of checking facts online. Both sides stretch the truth but the winner by miles for stretching the truth is the Leave party.

I suppose this is simply because just about every expert in every field has told the Leave party that coming out of the EU is the wrong decision.

Because they know the experts correct they are only left with one option and that is to tell us this sort of romantic fantasy story about the future.

In this fantasy story, they tell us that as UK citizens or, to put it another way, just 0.88% of the world population we are so clever and so much better than the other 99% of the world we will remain a world power just by voting leave.

And because we are so much cleverer than rest of the world we will have just under 7.4 billion people queuing up at our door to buy our products and services. All of this by voting to leave the EU.

This will mean jobs for everybody and the treasury will be awash with money. The NHS will be like a 4-star hotel with doctors standing at the doors just asking us to fill their beds. All of this by just voting to leave the EU.

I have got to stop as I think I have just seen a pig fly past my window.
Roof Top Crow
15th Jun 2016
0
Thanks for voting!
UKIP, Nigel Farage and the British fishing industry.

Nigel was on the lead fishing boat sailing up the Thames today in support of the Grimsby Fisherman and the UK fishing industry.

Nigel has been a member of the European Parliament Fisheries Committee for 3 years. In that 3 year period, there have been 42 meetings. During this same three period, there have been 3 major changes in the legislation.

The proposed changes were to do with giving the local fisherman a greater share of the quota.

Nigel attended just 3 times but chose not to vote.
Roof Top Crow
15th Jun 2016
-1
Thanks for voting!
It is not a secret, it costs £93 million a year. It does not cost the £300 million a year that was published as a fact by the Daily Excess.
This is a very brief resume of an ongoing historical situation.
At the beginning of the EC there was not enough room to meet in Luxembourg so they found some space in Strasbourg, France.

The European Parliament and all of its administration have been saying for years that they would like to move everything to Brussels and close down Strasbourg. But everybody has to agree to this move and France will not agree to this proposition.
Presumably, because they feel it would weaken the French position within the EU and create massive unemployment in Strasbourg.

I assume it is one of those situations where there has to be a yes vote from all of the member countries and as France will not agree then nothing can change.

The single country block is there as a safety measure. For example, if Turkey applied to join it would mean just one vote from a member country to stop them becoming members.
viking
15th Jun 2016
1
Thanks for voting!
I love to read Top Crow, and most of his research is correct. But now and again the other side of the coin has to be covered.

Brussels to Strasbourg and back EVERY MONTH 550 people transported between the two destinations to vote on proposals from Brussels. How much does this cost - it's a secret !!

Can this waste ever be altered ? - No, was the comment from a Euro MP - reason, it's written into the constitution !!!
Roof Top Crow
13th Jun 2016
1
Thanks for voting!
Euro Members of Parliament are elected. The UK has 73 elected Euro Members of Parliament. As UK citizens we voted them into place. There are 751 Euro Members of Parliament elected by the 28 member countries. They discuss and vote on all of the proposals that come out of EU Legislature.
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In the UK we have 790 members in the House of Lords. They were not elected by UK citizens. They can and do reject legislation voted on by the elected House of Commons.
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Fishing. If we leave the EU all fishermen from the rest of the EU and fishermen from all over the world will be able to come and fish in our territorial waters. We will have very little chance of stopping them.
MorrisandDoris
13th Jun 2016
2
Thanks for voting!
Roof Top Crow
14th Jun 2016
1
Thanks for voting!
The Fishery Protection Squad has 4 patrol vessels. 3 protect England, Wales, and Northern Ireland. 1 protects the Falklands. Scotland looks after itself.

At any one time, there are up to 400 fishing vessels in the England, Wales, and Ireland territorial waters. Many are our own fishing boats but not all. The Fishery Protection Squad say it is an almost impossible task and they depend on EU agreements to manage the situation.
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It seems logical that we remain part of the EU fishery protection rules as this is the only thing that stops us being overwhelmed with fishing boats from other EU countries.
blueeyes1947
13th Jun 2016
3
Thanks for voting!
When we first joined the Common Market it was to make it easier to trade between members, It was not intended for unelected Euro MPs to tell us what we can and cannot do or for their law courts to overturn sentences of our own law courts it has ruined our fishing industry so our fisherman are loosing their jobs If the EU went back to where we first joined I might vote to stay in but at the moment I'm voting out
WoodyStringMan
14th Jun 2016
1
Thanks for voting!
Euro MPs are elected. We vote for the European Members of Parliament every 5 years. We have 12 electoral districts in the UK: one each for Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland. England has nine because of its larger population. Each district elects between 3 and 10 MEPs, depending on how many people live there. In 2014 there were 724 candidates from 41 parties who stood in the European elections in the UK.

The UK fishing grounds are actually protected by membership of the EU; 'our' fishing industry was always going to lose jobs, just as 'our' industries have been eroded - but this was nothing to do with Europe but with the 'de-regulation' and privatisation carried out by successive governments since 1979, as well as a general lack of investment by the private industries themselves.

It's a good idea to research the arguments before writing anything.
Hawke008
17th Jun 2016
0
Thanks for voting!
Read ' From Brussels With Love' by Sir William Cash.
Hawke008
17th Jun 2016
1
Thanks for voting!
EU MPs may be elected, but they are purely window dressing for the commissars who run the EU. There are 736 MEPs in the EU 'parliament' with the UK having just 73, just under 10%.

Our fishing grounds are not protected for British fishermen, but are open to all the other EU countries.

It's a good idea to be factual and not 'spin' responses.
najinski
12th Jun 2016
-2
Thanks for voting!
well, i'm foreign, at least my dad was.so i guess my views aren't worth much, still, better Europe than America, unless you want 'ho*eland Security running us
najinski
12th Jun 2016
-2
Thanks for voting!
of course, we could do the Europeans a favor and leave..
WoodyStringMan
14th Jun 2016
0
Thanks for voting!
Perhaps, if you are American. In Britain we do 'favours', not 'favors'.
ginntonic
10th Jun 2016
0
Thanks for voting!
I know which way I am voting and my reasons for this.
One question I would like to ask is, how are the votes going to work? Are they going to be counted by region, they way they are in elections so it's first past the post, or will it be every vote will be counted as an individual. I hope it's the latter.
Roof Top Crow
10th Jun 2016
0
Thanks for voting!
Every vote will be counted as an individual. Not as a region.
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In the next 10 days you will be given a lot more information The information might confirm your decision but then again it might change your mind.
mamgu2
7th Jun 2016
1
Thanks for voting!
The deciding factor for me is the fact that we will loose through NHS if we stay in EU.
Roof Top Crow
7th Jun 2016
-2
Thanks for voting!
How do you work that out. ? The EU has nothing to do with the NHS. The EU cannot decide on funding for the NHS, employment levels in the NHS, who uses the NHS or the future of the NHS.
mamgu2
7th Jun 2016
1
Thanks for voting!
Roof Top Crow
7th Jun 2016
-1
Thanks for voting!
The article says.
Hundreds of papers from the secretive trade talks between the US and EU have been released online.

They appear to confirm fears that the Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership talks between Brussels and Washington will, when ratified, lead to the health service being privatised or dismantled.

The documents, obtained by Greenpeace Netherlands, include a US proposal to have a committee with representatives from Washington and Brussels to meet each year “to review state-owned enterprises and monopolies” which would include the NHS.
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These were not secretive talks they were minuted talks that are freely available on line. The Daily Excess chose to add the words "secretive" and if you note it also says "appear to confirm" and "when ratified"

The proposal was rejected by the EU as part of the TTIP proposal. All 28 countries have the individual right to reject all or any part of the proposal. The UK government, the Spanish government and many others have totally rejected this part of the proposal.
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The problem is with this kind of misreporting is that some people believe it.
Roof Top Crow
4th Jun 2016
-1
Thanks for voting!
I know that a lot of Silversurfers will find it uncomfortable but in the north of Europe we need the unemployed migrants from other parts of the EU to come and work in our factories, on our farms and in our service industries.

In northern Europe Germany has a massive problem with an ageing population and of course it is getting worse. Germany desperately needs immigrants from other parts of the EU to go and work there.

Our problem is different. The UK unemployment level is at just over 5% and can not go down any further. If we did not have the unemployed immigrants from the EU working in the UK, and that includes the NHS, our economy would fall into recession. In addition to keeping our economy buoyant immigrants paid £3.1 billion pounds in tax to the treasury which is 5 times more than they claim.
Wilf
4th Jun 2016
4
Thanks for voting!
Yes all agreed BUT how big do you want the UK population to be...lets keep going for growth and soon it will be 80 million...then 100 million...its madness! We will concrete over the whole of the Uk just for "Growth"
Roof Top Crow
6th Jun 2016
0
Thanks for voting!
97.75% of the UK is not built on or paved over, according to the latest research I can find on line. But that distorts the reality of how we all live. 80% of us live in towns and cities and our concerns are to do with how many more people can we get into urban areas.
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It is probably one of those things that self manages itself. If the population gets to a level where the traffic is so heavy that business cannot be carried out then the economy will drift into recession and the jobs will disappear. The same principle applies to housing, if the housing stock is under more pressure than it is now then immigrants will not find accommodation and they will not come to the UK. The same applies to education, the NHS and so on.
Mistylincs
13th Jun 2016
2
Thanks for voting!
Does that figure include farm land ? if so with the extra mouths to feed we are going to need every acre . Also we still have unemplyed people of our own so why do we need the immigrants to fill the vacancies.
Roof Top Crow
13th Jun 2016
0
Thanks for voting!
it is more complicated than that. For example some researchers say parks are not part of urban development, others disagree. It is the same with farms, some call them urban development some do not. But then urban does not necessarily mean built on.

Maybe the best way is just look out of the window when you are on a plane. Even around our major cities there is a lot of open land and farm land.
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Who are the unemployed. That is an even more complex problem and this next bit of my post is just scratching the surface.

If you take away the people between jobs or those who have just been made redundant you get down to the hard core.

In the UK two fifths of men under 25 are unemployed. This is a reflection on the lack of skills being taught in our schools and colleges.

The highest level of unemployment in men under 25 is in London and the south east.

Employers in London and the south east cannot find the skills they need within the unemployed in the UK and as I have said above this is due to the failure in our schools and colleges.

To overcome this situation they employ people who were born overseas who do have those skills.

Which is one of the reasons that London has nearly 40% of the not born in the UK population.

As I said, it is a very complex situation and just pulling up the drawbridge will not help anyone.
MorrisandDoris
10th Jun 2016
1
Thanks for voting!
You are having a laugh surely, or you really do need to get out more.

But I think you're a troll or a politician !!
Roof Top Crow
11th Jun 2016
-2
Thanks for voting!
I am not a politician. I assume you are using this word as some form of insult. It makes no sense but then making sense is not an obligation on this forum.
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The use of the word Troll is also a bit strange. I assume you are not referring to a supernatural creature in Norse mythology. In a more contemporary context the use of the word troll is slang for a person who sows discord. I suspect that as you do not agree with what I am saying you prefer to resort to using a word you do not understand.
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As I live in a location that has one of the the highest number of immigrants in the UK I am aware of the international nature of UK society.
Roof Top Crow
5th Jun 2016
-2
Thanks for voting!
People go where the jobs are.
A good example of how this plays out is Ireland. The economy if Ireland is recovering and Irish born people are not now leaving Ireland and many people who left Ireland are now returning home.
The economies of Spain and Portugal have now stabilized and growth will follow, with that growth you will get less and less immigrants coming to the UK from those countries and many people returning to their home country.
Italy will follow but Greece may take years to recover.
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People who come to the UK as immigrants come for jobs not for lifestyle. And just like everybody else, if there are jobs available at home they will stay at home. As the economies of the PIGS recover you will see a slowdown in immigrants coming to the UK and at the same time immigrants returning to their country of birth.
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Alternatively we could vote brexit and by doing so collapse the economy. We would then stop immigration because we would not have any jobs. We would instead have a recession and a huge increase in British born people being unemployed.
Wilf
5th Jun 2016
1
Thanks for voting!
Yes I agree its like Osmosis...people gravitate towards jobs..my point is can the UK have 80 million or 100 million people? Plus the brightest and best leave their own countries where they are really needed...
canary
3rd Jun 2016
5
Thanks for voting!
Get out and don't look back, be free of the corrupt EU..
Wilf
4th Jun 2016
1
Thanks for voting!
Problem is like the boss of JP Morgan said on the news tonight we could loose 000s of jobs by leaving
Roof Top Crow
1st Jun 2016
0
Thanks for voting!
Within the EU we have had a long term relationship that has created a strong economy and a stable society for the UK. It is not perfect, in fact it is far from perfect, but just like any other relationship you are better off staying in and fixing the problems rather than walking away.
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Unless you can absolutely guarantee that the UK will be better, and stronger by leaving this successful although somewhat flawed relationship with the EU you are better off voting to stay.
Hawke008
17th Jun 2016
1
Thanks for voting!
If you can absolutely guarantee that the UK will be better, and stronger by staying in an unreformed, undemocratic EU then vote to stay.

But, if there is no absolute guarantee that the UK will not be drawn into the Euro in 2017, as is it is bound to be by the terms of the Lisbon agreement; if you cannot absolutely guarantee that the UK taxpayer will not have to contribute to a burgeoning EU budget or bail outs for bankrupt Eurozone countries, then vote to leave. (Recently the EU gave France 60 billion euros to fill a hole in the French treasury.)

If you don't want to live and be ruled by a corrupt organisation, one that its own auditors have refused to sign off its accounts for over 20 years; one that is little by little is destroying your rights, including the removal of your right to criticise the EU, its commissars, presidents and workings, then vote to leave.

If you have not been awed or frightened by a remain campaign that comprises spin, untruths, threats and intimidation, vote leave.

If you think Bob Geldorf making 'v' signs at British fishermen represents your views then vote remain.
Roof Top Crow
20th Jun 2016
0
Thanks for voting!
There are no guarantees in life. It is always a matter of personal judgement as to what will happen next.

For me, the biggest risk for the future is to support the concept of leaving the EU. The Leave argument has not been backed up by any plans for the future. The only thing that the Leave campaign have confirmed is that the UK will go into recession if we vote Leave. No thanks.

The auditors sign off the accounts every November. The 2014 accounts were signed off in November 2015 and they expect to sign of the 2015 accounts in 2016.

On the other boat, was Nigel Farage. Nigel is a member the EU Fisheries Commission. So far Nigel has attended just one of the 42 planning meetings that have been called since he became a member. He did not vote.
MorrisandDoris
3rd Jun 2016
2
Thanks for voting!
Fixing the problems, they will never be fixed because its all about self interest, then you get out voted by the rest.
Think about what you write then let me know how many Polish and Romanians are living here against British going to their countries to live and work.
The poorer EU countries people mostly come to the UK to work so creating serious infrastructure problems for us, so wait till 70 million Turks join the EU !!
And as for wishing for a guarantee that living will be better out of the EU than in, well nobody can really guarantee anything for certain in life, only death!!
Roof Top Crow
3rd Jun 2016
-2
Thanks for voting!
I assumed that self interest is the reason the citizens of the UK are deciding if we should stay in the EU or leave the EU.
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You have identified three different groups of people and split them by nationality.

Polish people living and working in the UK.
We know that the vast majority of Polish people come here and work as tradesman. Around 80% of them have a job on arrival because they have responded to adverts in Poland offering them jobs in the UK. The other 20% are unskilled and work seasonally in agriculture and warehousing etc.
The department of Work and Pensions say that they account for just 2.5% of the benefit claims that are made.

Romanian people living and working in the UK.
We know that the vast majority of Romanian people come here and work as tradesman. Around 80% of them have a job on arrival because they have responded to adverts in Romania offering them jobs in the UK. The other 20% are unskilled and work seasonally in agriculture and warehousing etc.
The department of Work and Pensions say that they account for just 2.5% of the benefit claims that are made.

Most EU immigrants are young and healthy, they do not claim benefits and do not use the NHS. Just about all of them speak English because it is the only common language in Europe. It is the language of technology, business, music, fashion and the language of the young. You only have to watch the TV to see young people all over the world speaking English.

The NHS have said that 30% of the people they employ come from the EU.

British citizens living in other parts of the EU.
These people are very different. It is estimated that there are over 1 million British born people living in the southern parts of the EU.
They are primarily more than 60 years old and with many in their late 70s and 80s. They do not work, they do not pay tax to the country they live in such as Spain, Portugal and France. They expect to be able to use the health services in those countries but they do not expect to pay for those eservices. They are a burden to those countries and if we leave the EU we may get hundreds and thousands of old and unwell British citizens returning to the UK.
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Turkey. It will be at least 20 years and maybe longer before Turkey is ready to join the EU.
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if we stay in the EU things will mostly go on as they were before with a strong and growing economy. If we leave it will be chaotic and it will lead to recession.
Catrina700
1st Jun 2016
5
Thanks for voting!
Ask yourself one simple question, who do you want running the country you live in. Your own elected government or someone from across the channel. For me the answer is easy, there is no contest and I find it hard to understand why anyone would want it any other way.

Because It's highly unlikely that any one from across the pond, controlling us, making the laws and decisions would be doing so in the best interest of the British people.
Roof Top Crow
1st Jun 2016
-3
Thanks for voting!
I think we should look at some of the numbers rather than listen to broad brush opinions.
Although having said that, it is a very complex calculation and the House of Commons library has said that there is not a simple way if defining what is a Law as passed as an Act of Parliament and what is a regulation influenced by our EU membership.
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It seems that somewhere around 9% of the laws put in place by the UK Government are influenced by EU regulations.
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Most of this 9% is to do with common standards and values such as health and safety, animal welfare and scientific research etc.
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The major acts of legislation such as the Health and Social Care Act which reformed the NHS are entirely drafted and voted on within the UK and the EU has no influence.
Wilf
4th Jun 2016
2
Thanks for voting!
On question time last night an interesting question. If the UK was not in the EU now...would we join? Debate!
Roof Top Crow
4th Jun 2016
-2
Thanks for voting!
We joined the EC because our economy was on the path of becoming the weakest in Europe. Years later we have become the second strongest member of the EU and the 6th strongest economy in the world. So that was the right decision.
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If we were not in membership we would be desperate to join. We would be an island on the edge of the worlds biggest trading bloc and that trading bloc was just about to sign a trade deal with the second largest trading bloc in the world.
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Yes we would want to join.
Wilf
4th Jun 2016
0
Thanks for voting!
I am for staying in but I do not agree with you. If we looked at Europe now we would see a shambles-Currency fiasco, riots in France, the PIGS in southern Europe, migration crisis...no I do not think we would join
Linear
31st May 2016
-1
Thanks for voting!
I really don't know ...yes or no....
Phoenix122
1st Jun 2016
3
Thanks for voting!
Neither side know for sure what would happen and although I'm all for leaving the EU, I would like to see people vote for whichever way the feel is best. If most of the people would turn out for a vote, then we'd know how the whole of the country felt.
If we leave, we will not be alone as the scare tactics say. Britain did without the EU for centuries so I don't see why we can't again.
If we stay, I hope this referendum has been the means of a shake-up both for the EU and UK. It will let these governing groups know we still have the power to get changes if we stand together.
Phoenix122
29th May 2016
5
Thanks for voting!
The EU can't give us anything we haven't already got already. The scare tactics used by the 'remains' are unbelieveable.
Will no-one trade with us if we leave the EU, WW3 threatened -
Of course they will trade. We are one of the 7 biggest economies in the world and being members of the G7 proves that. We are also members of the G20, an even bigger organsation. We're in The league of Commonwealth of Nations which has our queen as their head, we're in NATO. These are worldwide organisations we are already in, so when they say we will be alone - They lie. WW3 will break out - They lie, we're in NATO - so are most the other members. EU members will not trade with us - they lie. Merc, BMW, Fiat, Citroen, Scania, Daf etc are all from EU countries and for a foreign committee to block them selling to us, puts their economy in danger and they won't do that. If we leave, there is a chance that there will be more jobs for more people in Britain.
The House of Commons cost analysis is a long read but it's worth it, it makes points for either side. One paragraph starts
"2 Cost-benefit analyses of EU membership
There is no definitive study of the economic impact of the UK’s EU membership, or
equivalently, the costs and benefits of withdrawal. Framing the aggregate impact in terms of
a single number, or even irrefutably demonstrating that the net effects are positive or
negative, is a formidably difficult exercise."

It's a PDF doc if you want to read it.
http://researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/SN06730/SN06730.pdf

Personally I don't think it's worth giving up our sovereignty to a beaurocratic foreign committee to make decision for us.
redfive
27th May 2016
5
Thanks for voting!
The EU is not the Promised Land. Shipbuilding-Dead, Fishing-Dead, Coal-mining-Dead, British Leyland-Dead, Trains, Steel, Heath Service on life support, Rocketing House Prices, Rents going through the roof. Bankers getting Knighthoods and Bonuses, Immigrants in Mansions and Luxury houses, the British suffer bedroom tax, Sick and Dying made to work and some can't afford to bury their dead. Safer to remain? You mean, insane to remain! VOTE LEAVE.
Roof Top Crow
27th May 2016
-1
Thanks for voting!
Why will it be better if we leave the EU. Many of the things you mention such as property prices, bankers getting knighthoods, the bedroom tax etc etc these are all exclusive to the UK.
If we leave the EU it will not change any of these things.
nanabet48
27th May 2016
1
Thanks for voting!
Two reasons why I think we should leave the EU are:

1) As our economy grows, so will our payment to the EU. At a nett cost of approximately £10 billion per year now, what will it cost in future years. Think what we could spend that money on - don't forget, it is ours. We may pay £530m gross per week now and deduct our 'discount' before we send it (thanks to Maggie negotiating it for us), but the money we get back in funding etc., can only be spent on the things the EU tell us we can spend it on and it is our money! Another £8m or so is paid to the Private Sector, which leaves us with a net total in the region of £161m per week! (These figures obviously are not exact but can be checked on the internet). The advantage to Britain to come out of the EU is obvious in this instance alone.

2) I have read that the TTIP agreement is due to be signed between America and the EU in August (or it may be Autumn, but whatever, it is not that far away), we need to be out before this is done - otherwise we will definitely suffer. I urge you all to do your own research on this agreement - the only winner will be America! We are not being told anything about the TTIP - Transatlantic Trade & Investment Partnership - but look on YouTube (just enter TTIP) and you can read what a disaster this will be for the UK. Also look at the TISA - Trade In Service Agreement.

We all know this in an important issue and we cannot rely on being told the truth by either the Remain or Leave parties but I am sure we are all intelligent enough to be able to research for ourselves and work out whether we should Leave or Remain.

I believe in Britain and know how I am voting!!
Diane 11
27th May 2016
0
Thanks for voting!
Sorry pressed the wrong button
We need to leave the EU
What trade with Europe are we worrying about ? We now produce next to nothing.
We need to rebuild England.
Farmers need immigrant workers to harvest crops . How long will they be satisfied to stay in menial jobs?
Roof Top Crow
29th May 2016
-1
Thanks for voting!
We export to the world 80% of the 500,000 cars we produce in the UK. We also export electrical goods, aircraft, aircraft parts, mineral oils, fuel, plastics, alcoholic drinks, food, nuclear reactor parts and much more. From the service industries we export financial services, IT services, films, TV programs and again much more.
44% of our exports to the EU.
Roof Top Crow
27th May 2016
-1
Thanks for voting!
It is difficult to calculate these figures but I think you are very close. What your figures have excluded of is the fact that £10 billion represents 1.3% of the GDP of the UK.
For that 1.3% of our GDP we export 44% of the products we manufacture into the 27 countries of the EU without any duty being payable. In return the 27 EU countries export a combined total of 8% of their manufacturing into the UK without duty being payable. Seems like a reasonable commercial agreement in anybody’s terms.
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TTIP hit the headlines with President Obama saying we would be at the back of the queue if vote Brexit. In fact the TTIP negotiators have been telling us this for a year and they asked Obama to make it part of his speech as we did not seem to be listening.
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If we vote Brexit then we are being told by the leave party that the USA is a target market for the re born UK. The UK with 65 million people is 15% of the size of the 27 EU countries.
Realistically I do not think we stand much of a chance of negotiating a deal with the USA that is as good as the EU deal where they are negotiating on behalf of have 450 million people.
Trampas1955
24th May 2016
2
Thanks for voting!
People should think about what it will be like in 20 years time if we were to leave the EU.
Our currency will almost certainly disappear as well as our passports. The military will be brought into a Euro force and we will be forced to cut ties with the commonwealth.
The monarchy will be downgraded and the house of lords will most definitely go.
Many people of course will think these things are good but there definitely will be radical changes if we stay.
Roof Top Crow
26th May 2016
-1
Thanks for voting!
20 years ago digital technology was in its infancy, Tony Blair was PM, Charles and Di divorced, Mad Cow Disease was rife, Interest rates were at 6% and the NHS was in crisis. It all seems so long ago and none of the ways we live now and the problems we face now were predicted.
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You could be right but we all know that when anybody forecasts the future that none of it will come true. It might be better or it might be worse it is impossible to know.
JohnHerb
25th May 2016
-2
Thanks for voting!
Yes but I fear it will change a lot more if we leave and for the worse. The city could crumble with 000s of jobs at stake
MorrisandDoris
3rd Jun 2016
2
Thanks for voting!
When we leave most of the other members will follow,they are waiting for us to lead the way in getting their own countries back !!
Roof Top Crow
3rd Jun 2016
-3
Thanks for voting!
So what you are suggesting is that all 28 countries separate.
If we follow that line of thought we will have borders all over Europe. With that would come border disputes, blockades and in fact total chaos.
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Business and all travel would grind to a halt with 28 different currencies, 28 countries different levels of tax, 28 different tax and import duty levels. 28 different passports systems.

it makes it sound like Europe in the 15th and 16th century.
MorrisandDoris
3rd Jun 2016
0
Thanks for voting!
We all had our own borders before the EU and our own currencies, we still do.
Travel to America, Canada, Australia, Mexico, etc they have their own borders currencies not a problem to go there on holiday.
You are clearly an EU fan and probably a Cameron supporter with your now desperate argument,with your 15th 16th century Europe comparison, seriously !!!!!
Speeednet
27th May 2016
1
Thanks for voting!
You sound like Cameron and Osborn, or maybe you just believe their scare stories and fantasies. It should be good when they introduce the famine and pestilence stories, they haven't used them yet.

They used exactly the same lies to get Norway into the EU but fortunately the people did not fall for it and not only have none of the doom and despondency threats come to pass, quite the opposite they are thriving as a result.
Roof Top Crow
27th May 2016
-1
Thanks for voting!
Norway has to pay 50 million Euros a year to the EU to be able to trade with the EU. Plus other moneys for co-operate on legal agreements and additional millions for Territorial Co-Operation.
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Norway has to abide by all of the EU rules and regulations just as we do and all the members do.
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The big difference is that Norway is not represented in the EU. No votes, no influence and by being outside of the EU they have given themselves a lousy deal.
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They have oil but the price has collapsed and they are approaching a negative balance of payments.
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Even the Norwegian government are telling us not to vote Brexit.
MorrisandDoris
3rd Jun 2016
1
Thanks for voting!
Yes but what do the Norwegian people think !!
Helga
29th May 2016
2
Thanks for voting!
Sorry my finger slipped please view my comment just as Eu,
Thanks
Helga
29th May 2016
1
Thanks for voting!
Lets just stay as we are, this way we can still and will be heard. GREAT BRITAIN is very much needed in the EUn
Helga
18th May 2016
-3
Thanks for voting!
there is only one reason, we must keep Europe united. Only
Great Britrain can do it. Look to the future and not the past.
Speeednet
27th May 2016
2
Thanks for voting!
That is what NATO is for, the EU is basically the Fourth Reich.
Catrina700
17th May 2016
6
Thanks for voting!
If we were given the opportunity to join the European Union today, knowing what we know now and seeing what's going on across Europe. Low growth,high debts and 40% unemployment in some cases. A massive migration problem with fences going up all over the place. Anti-Europe parties springing up everywhere, countries wanting their own vote to get out and corrupt lame duck countries waiting to join.

Where the European leaders stumble from one crisis to the next without the ability to solve any of them. Where we are expected to give up control of our own country to people we don't even elect. They would have to pay us £350 million each week to join not the other way round. We would be running in the opposite direction.

No wonder dodgy Dave and his chums dream up daily scare stories to try to prevent us from voting out.
Roof Top Crow
15th May 2016
-1
Thanks for voting!
Boris as PM ? We all read it today, desperate, lacking in judgment, offensive. That folks is what we will get as the PM if we vote to leave. Britain is better than this.
MorrisandDoris
10th Jun 2016
2
Thanks for voting!
You can't possibly support Cameron,he is a jelly faced wimp, not the strong leader we so desperately need for UK.
Roof Top Crow
11th Jun 2016
-2
Thanks for voting!
I did not say I supported Cameron.
Boris de Pfeffel was sacked by The Times for telling lies, sacked by the Tory Party for telling lies.
This is the same man who up until a few months ago wrote a weekly column in The Telegraph extolling the benefits of being in the EU.
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He is at the very least an opportunist and as all of the women said on TV earlier this week all he is only interested in is his political career.
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At the very least we should expect from the the PM of the United Kingdom honesty and integrity. Boris does not have either of those characteristics.
Hawke008
17th Jun 2016
1
Thanks for voting!
Honesty and integrity - Cameron? Please.
victor meldrew
13th May 2016
5
Thanks for voting!
Like a lot of older folk I remember happier times before we joined the EU behemoth. That why I'm voting yo leave.
najinski
12th Jun 2016
-1
Thanks for voting!
what happier times?.. i was happier in the Hansiatic league
oscarsmum08
13th May 2016
0
Thanks for voting!
Hi everyone. I am a new member and am delighted that there is a healthy debate going on around whether or not the UK should leave the EU. It was also heartening to find that, in the poll, some 75% of members are in favour of leaving, including me. This is a huge subject and one which is challenging to fully understand. However, for some of us it is a no-brainer when you factor in all the elements. The following is an article from The Telegraph Business section which aims to bust the myths around Brexit - hope you find it interesting and food for thought.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2016/05/02/why-its-time-to-bust-the-many-myths-surrounding-brexit2/
Speeednet
12th May 2016
0
Thanks for voting!
Remember those leaflets on which the government spent £9.3m of tax payers money to persuade us to remain in the EU? Well over 200,000 people objected to that and as a result it was debated in Parliament.

For those that are interested here is the debate. Anyone that is undecided could learn a lot from watching and or listening to this.

http://www.parliamentlive.tv/Event/Index/93a979e7-4c8a-4d3f-89b1-529df4b4cad4#share
Roof Top Crow
11th May 2016
-4
Thanks for voting!
Like everybody else I want what is best for the UK, and for me that is about the people we want to have in government.

The UK government want us to remain in the EU. They tell us that the UK is one of the best places in world to live and work, and one of the wealthiest countries in the world. The UK is certainly not perfect, far from it, but watching the rest of the world on TV, and the problems they all have, I think they are correct. Living in the UK is about as good as it gets.

The rest of the world supports the UK government. All of the Commonwealth countries, all of the Americas, all of Europe and just about every country in the world of any size, and that includes Albania want us to vote yes. The exception is Russia, but then they have their own agenda.

Worldwide the list of major financial institutions who support the UK government is very long. Worldwide the list of the military and security institutions who support the UK government is also very long.

The list of major financial institutions who want us to vote no is very short. From the military and security institutions there are a few retired old soldiers who want us to vote no. They are mainly, old, retired and technically out of touch.

On behalf of Brexit we have Boris with his own personal ambition to be PM. Iain Duncan-Smith who failed as the leader of the Conservative party, Nigel Farage leader of the old and grumpy party, Michael Gove who has gone onto hiding after his disastrous speech in April and Kate Hoey who can never answer a straightforward question. Plus a few more politicians who have no chance of progressing and see Brexit as the last chance to get into a position of influence. In addition they have Aaron Banks who is on a Brexit campaign all of his own. Aaron has just produced a campaign promotion that links Brexit to Donald Trump.

For me yes or no is not about the cost of the EU, trade barriers, immigration, security, sovereignty and all the rest. For me yes or no is about the people I trust to be in Government. The people who will make the decisions that will be in the best interest of the UK and not just themselves.

I am not a supporter of the Conservative party, but I prefer to have the current government running the UK than the Brexit campaigners. I do not want my country being governed by the Brexit mix of political opportunists who have taken hypocrisy and double standards to a new level.
Speeednet
27th May 2016
0
Thanks for voting!
If you like the EU so much and are thinking of moving to one of the countries that will be remaining in the EU. Don't pick France or Germany, because once we vote for Brexit, they will both want their say and will also bail out. IMHO
Roof Top Crow
27th May 2016
0
Thanks for voting!
The EU has a many problems but then trying to find agreements between 28 countries and over 500 million people is never going to be easy. The UK has got the best of the EU including the fact we are not part of the common currency agreement and not part of the Schengen agreement. But we still get to trade without borders or export duty with all 27 countries of the EU.
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If we vote Brexit we are facing at least 5 years and maybe 10 years of turmoil. As we fight to re establish our place in Europe and the rest of the world.
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If we vote to stay we will get back to normal life. The UK will continue to prosper and we can get on with finding an answer to the NHS problems, improving education and all of those other problems that are nothing to do with the EU.
denboy
13th May 2016
5
Thanks for voting!
But do you want it to be run by a bunch of people who you didn't elect in Brussels ?
I say take back our own country and take back making our own laws
Roof Top Crow
11th May 2016
-5
Thanks for voting!
Iain Duncan Smith said yesterday that the EU favours "haves over the have-nots" and claimed he is speaking on behalf of the poor and people who are finding life difficult.

This is the same Iain Duncan Smith who imposed the “housing benefit under occupancy charge” or bedroom tax. A tax that targeted the disabled and the elderly surviving on benefits.

Hypocrisy.
A situation in which someone pretends to believe something they do not really believe, or that is the opposite of what they do or say at another time.
Susiqu
10th May 2016
8
Thanks for voting!
I have been listening to all the arguments put by both the in and out parties. The referendum has been rushed through as soon as David Cameron came back from the so called agreement with the EU so we do not have at the chance to take in all the pros and cons, in fact we have not been given true facts and figures, more scare tactics if we decide to leave.

I was undecided but weighing up all the pros and cons and the extortionate amount we put into the EU with relatively a small amount back. The fact that we are more or less governed now by the EU and the agreement made, despite David Cameron's assurances, is not binding and can and all be overridden by the EU, I will be voting to leave. These are just a few of my reasons. I do not take for gospel all I read by either parties but I do have a mind of my own and I don like what I see and hear. I truly believe we will be better out.
denboy
13th May 2016
8
Thanks for voting!
I truly believe that also, let's get back to governing our own country
Wilf
10th May 2016
-7
Thanks for voting!
Today the 2 previous leaders of MI5 MI6 said much safer to stay in the EU. These guys know everything about security. Lets stay in the biggest market in the world. Why leave the "Rich Club"-you would have to be mad!
MorrisandDoris
3rd Jun 2016
1
Thanks for voting!
Most of the problems are coming or trying to get here from Europe mainly through France,so much for security of being in the rich club !!!
Munsterlander
11th May 2016
3
Thanks for voting!
Yes but these powerful people do not know everything. Look at the Euro. Gordon Brown et al said go in...what a disaster if we had of done!
Starburst
8th May 2016
6
Thanks for voting!
I am for leaving the EU. We can stand up for ourselves and we can flourish, we certainly won't go down the drain as some people out there seem to think. We can still trade, we can still produce goods, if only our government gives those that are willing to make it in business a helping hand. We would save money by not paying into the EU the enormous funds, we can spend that on the most important issues facing the country i.e the NHS. We can control our borders and we do not need to be told how to do it by EU bureaucrats.
Wilf
11th May 2016
-4
Thanks for voting!
yes but if we leave and then want to trade with the EU we will still have to have flexibility with migrants like now. Also why leave the richest trading group globally...it doesn't make sense?
victor meldrew
13th May 2016
4
Thanks for voting!
We do more trade with the EU than they do us. When we leave they will be knocking on our door pleading to do business with us.
The likes of Aldi,Lidl,BMW,Mercedes,VW,Audi,skoda,and many other German,French,Spanish,Italian companies aren't going to say "Sorry mate I'm not doing business with you now you are not an EU member" They would be mad to do so.
Roof Top Crow
19th May 2016
-1
Thanks for voting!
We are just 13% of the EU population. They will not stop trading with us in the short term but in the medium to long term we will end up being by passed for other easier markets.
EG. The forthcoming TTIP agreement between the EU and the USA will leave us as a commercial backwater if we vote Brexit.
MorrisandDoris
3rd Jun 2016
0
Thanks for voting!
We shall see how the trade deals go after we leave perhaps all the BMW,AUDI ,VW dealerships will close plus Aldi and Lidl stores to name but a few from just Germany,no it won't happen.
The main problem is the transition from the EU,will the new government be up to it,lets hope so but I don't think we have a real choice in the matter stay and die or fight for our country,
we just need a real leader to do it !!
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Speeednet
27th May 2016
0
Thanks for voting!
I cannot believe anybody would mention the TTIP in any positive terms. The TTIP alone is a valid reason for Brexit. I would suggest you have a read of it (only through leaks because the EU and the USA are keeping the details well hidden from the people) Greenpeace got a copy and you can read some of it here. https://ttip-leaks.org/ It will certainly mean the end of the NHS and will mean that if a Country passes a law that will infringe on the profits of big business, for instance by making things safer for the public or employees, the company will be able to sue the country for damages. How can that be in any way good? It's bad enough being ruled by bureaucrats in Brussels, being ruled by multi nationals would be little more than slavery.
Wilf
13th May 2016
0
Thanks for voting!
Yes but if we are out of the EU they have already said we can trade with them but we would have to keep olur boarders open...no change...look at Switzerland..same there
MorrisandDoris
3rd Jun 2016
1
Thanks for voting!
Why would we have to keep open borders ?
When the UK returns to being a sovereign state again we can do what we like with our borders it's our country,we let in who we want and deport any non UK citizens we want.
That's assuming we get a government with some backbone of course not like the weak pathetic bunch we have at present!!
Joan Fraser
6th May 2016
5
Thanks for voting!
Thanks Silversurfers - I have enjoyed perusing and been interested in reading all the varied comments and thoughts here.

I have swung and swayed from Stay In, to Get Out, for months now.....so I stepped away for a while and feel a bit fresher and more clear headed now.

I initially thought I was veering towards stay in; but on researching the amounts of money involved, plus large salaries & expenses for MEPs and all their aides and officials that I know little about, and even less about what they do to make our lives in UK better and/or safer.

I also fully understand that NATO & European Human Rights Commission are entirely separate from EU.....which is really only as it used to be called; a Common Market - but it appears to me to be a marketplace that has hefty and complex membership rules. It is also a market place where the customer base has exploded in size over recent times, and with increased membership has come increased bureaucracy, 'onus and responsibility' .....much of which I don't think we can afford or cope with.

So, today I am still a lover and admirer of the continent of Europe, the beaches, the history, and it's cultures and peoples; but feel I could forego my EU Health Card to see our home waters fished sensibly and freely, and to benefit from some reduction in the red tape and restrictions we endure. Assuming of course that we will have sensible and truth telling UK politicians in place who would manage our domestic affairs, health provision, manufacturing bases, training opportunities, pensions, and negotiate international trade deals well and transparently........ Mmmmmm more food for thought me thinks.
Wilf
11th May 2016
-3
Thanks for voting!
Yes I agree would you trust UK MPs to do the right thing? They would probably spend more budgets on private duck houses and claiming rents for 2nd homes etc!
Catrina700
4th May 2016
5
Thanks for voting!
The only good thing about staying in this European club is the fortune we will save on MPs salaries and expenses. There will be little point in voting for a UK government in the future, since there will be nothing for them to govern. All we will need is a few low paid messengers to transfer orders from Brussels to the rest of us.

With the money we've saved we could pay even more into the European money box, to prop up more corrupt lame duck countries that are queueing up to join. A large part of this money could be used to support our own industries, our public services, over crowded schools, hospitals and transport systems. After all, it's not as though we couldn't find a home for it. Surely, our needs come before we support the lame ducks of Europe.
Bernard Wooller
3rd May 2016
7
Thanks for voting!
I think a lot of people confuse the EU with Europe the continent ,the EU is just a collection of governments of countries of Europe who have decided in there best interests to Harmonise there rules and laws, which as a bald statement is a good aspiration. The problem I now see is this is not what is happening, I think it would have been manageable if the common market is it was when we joined had stayed as 9 members, but as the expansion has taken place so the problems have expanded for Britain, I have nothing against immigration but too much I feel we destabilise the country, we are already seeing this in the NHS and Education, and when people say "oh the NHS won't function if we stop immigration", I don't won't to stop immigration I wont my elected government to have a choice who comes here and if I don't like there choices I the right to change the government something I can't do with the EU.I also want my government to be able to send convicted criminals and undesirable potential immigrants back to where they are citizens. As to the arguments about whether we are better off in trade and monetary terms the only sane answer to that is "nobody knows"
I would like to think that if we leave and with a big effort from visionary politicians and businesses this Great Britain of ours can flourish by creating new partnerships with the rest of the world and with the EU on terms we can live with,not the imposition of terms we don't like. This is a chance for Great Britain to Shine please don't let it go.GET OUT AND VOTE LEAVE EU
scandiman
4th May 2016
3
Thanks for voting!
Entirely agree with you Bernard. You say that, with visionary politicians we can flourish. I think that we would find it difficult to get a visionary politician! The mess we're in has been entirely created by the politicians. The banks were allowed to do as they pleased, we were dragged into ever closer political union by scheming behind closed doors and the clever, expensively educated elite who think they have a right to govern. Now, when it is actually too late, they condescend to allow us a referendum. We have failed to educate our youth so as to provide the engineers, doctors and nurses we need, so we have to look abroad. I know many young people who will never have a home of their own, whether rented or mortgaged. They will also not know the job security many of my generation enjoyed.
We need a PM of dynamism and vision, prepared to fight for us outside EU, because we will become a vassal of federal Europe if we stay in. Unfortunately, among the present lot of political pygmies, there isn't a man or woman of vision among them.
KEITH_WL
1st May 2016
5
Thanks for voting!
I like the European countries and always try to learn a bit of their languages when I visit. However I don't like the control-freak, bureaucratic policies of the EU. I could still visit those countries if we left it.
TwilleyTwineToes
30th Apr 2016
4
Thanks for voting!
I saw a post on Facebook yesterday that suggested that David Cameron, and others were deliberately wanting us to vote 'OUT' even through he is voting to stay in. That his attitude and comments about leaving were to deliberately anger us to vote 'OUT' ....... The reason given is that he wants to sell off more of our once great institutions to his friends at knock down prices. The NHS for instance.
I found this difficult to swallow, as I believe that once 'OUT' he would have no other choice than to resign, along with his Buddy, The Chancellor of the Exchequer, Mr. Hunt. There have been far too many mistakes made by the pair, and already the public are calling for a Parliamentary rethink on the schools being forced into being Academies. People had had enough of this austerity that just goes on and on whilst the EU squanders the taxpayers money and the EU|'s books have never been audited. We can make a difference .......
WE NEED 'OUT' !
Roof Top Crow
1st May 2016
-2
Thanks for voting!
You cover a lot of points in your post and you end by saying we should be out of the EU, as it would be a solution to all of our problems.
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You are most probably right in saying that the PM and others would have to resign if we voted to leave the EU and I think you are correct in saying this would lead to a general election
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But you do not say what you think would happen to the UK as a result of these events. Can you come back onto the forum and outline what we should expect.
Speeednet
29th Apr 2016
3
Thanks for voting!
If our leaders, our politicians, those that have been elected by us to look after our welfare and our interests, are willing to blatantly lie, distort the facts, make up scare stories and wild exaggerations to keep us from voting to leave the most corrupt and universally disliked organisation ever to exist. You just have to wonder why?
Munsterlander
29th Apr 2016
-2
Thanks for voting!
I don't think everyone has this picture of the EU. I don't. Yes its a vast bureaucracy and yes there are a lot of problems but it does let countries trade efficiently. Most important of all we have not had a war in western Europe and one of the key reasons is the EU. After 500 years of wars I would call that a right result!
MorrisandDoris
1st May 2016
1
Thanks for voting!
Regarding the wars in Europe over the last 500 years,the England won most if not all of them!
In the last 70 years we have been to war with Germany twice
the rest of Europe either sat it out or surrended so not much chance of another war in Europe,no stomach or money for it,only Russia as the will and the way.
The open borders of the EU will be its downfall because without strict control it was never going to work,and with the masses of non EU immigrants coming into Europe it will only get worse,so it's time to say goodbye vote Leave and close our borders,the rest of Europe will follow or implode !!
Roof Top Crow
1st May 2016
-2
Thanks for voting!
You say we have been at war with Germany twice in the past 70 years. I think you must have missed typed that figure.
For the past 70 years we have experienced the longest period of peace in the history of the European continent.
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Pulling up the drawbridge might work if we were to fight a land and sea battle just as we did in the last world war. The reality nowadays is that technology does not respect borders so we are no more protected as an island off of Europe than is France, Germany or Switzerland.
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If you get the chance go and see the film "Eye in the Skye" its all about modern war fair. It is quite frightening, but a great film. It stars Helen Mirren.
MorrisandDoris
3rd Jun 2016
0
Thanks for voting!
My error should have been 102 years the last war ended 70 years ago,but you forgot to mention the RAF .The V1 and V2 rockets that the Germans had could have been the end for us if they had them earlier in the war,and now the technology is much more advanced plus the nuclear addition .
We have no reason to fear a conventional or any other type of war with Europe ,non of the countries can fight apart from possibly France.
Open borders will be our downfall we will be destroyed from within by various means and so will Europe !!

Will watch the movie though !
Speeednet
30th Apr 2016
3
Thanks for voting!
The EU had nothing to do with it, the peace was due to NATO, you have bought into the propaganda put out by the remain mob and EU trolls like the crow who's full time occupation is living on forums such as this to convince those wavering that more of the same rubbish we have been fed is good for us.
Roof Top Crow
30th Apr 2016
-1
Thanks for voting!
I put forward views based on the commercial logic of staying within the EU. Occasionally that involves correcting facts about the EU that other forum users have put forward. I assume you do not like what I say, but that is your choice.
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The way you describe people like me who think we should remain in the EU as a mob tells its own story. It tells me you have already decided how you will vote and you are not able to listen to alternative points of view. But again that is your choice.

I will ignore your use of the word troll. Clearly you do not understand its correct use.
Roof Top Crow
29th Apr 2016
-1
Thanks for voting!
You have said "it is our leaders, our politicians, those that have been elected by us to look after our welfare and our interests, are willing to blatantly lie, distort the facts, make up scare stories and wild exaggerations etc etc.

Since the people asking us to remain and the people asking us to leave come from both sides of the house then the same lying, distortion and scare stories must come from the remain side and the leave side.

You ask why. I think that politics today is mainly a career choice and they are choosing "remain" or "leave" on the basis of how much it will enhance their political career.
Speeednet
30th Apr 2016
0
Thanks for voting!
There are some honourable folk amongst them, people who are doing what is right for both the UK and the inhabitants. I will agree with you for once that there are those that are looking to further their careers and wallet, that is where intelligence comes in, and I would like to think that the age that the most of us on here have attained, we have learned by now to tell when somebody is telling porkies.

PS The people in the remain camp have a lot more to gain by us staying in, than the Brexit mob do in us leaving. That should give most people a clue as to motivation and who is genuine.
Wilf
11th May 2016
-3
Thanks for voting!
I think leaving is wrong as it will damage the UK economy. We need to keep the jobs and the wealth in the UK
Speeednet
12th May 2016
1
Thanks for voting!
and we can keep the jobs and the wealth in the UK by giving £55m a day to Brussels to waste / steal / or whatever they do to make it disappear.

Really?
Dilwyn
29th Apr 2016
1
Thanks for voting!
l read both sides of the argument for leaving or staying with interest. I have known of the Bilderberg group since the middle sixties although l had never known its name. I agree with the sentiments Betsy M Mackay states as per Hawk008.
Just a reminder, Germany is trying to take over the London Stock Exchange and not a peep have l heard from the government about this. Moving the money power centre away from London to Frankfurt. Why is that l ask in my innocence?? Surely to strengthen the EU should we decide to leave. Be interesting to read your comments.
Roof Top Crow
30th Apr 2016
-1
Thanks for voting!
In a Facebook post in early April Betsy M Mackay said we we being controlled by an Evil Empire. In another post she said she was asking the Lord to extricate us from the Evil Empire and the EU. In a more recent post she said she knows very little about the EU.
On balance I think we can safely ignore what she has to say.
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The reason Deutsche Borse and The London Stock Exchange decided to merge was to protect both businesses from being taken over by the New York Stock Exchange.

The new jointly owned business is registered and based in London and is probably too big to be bought by the New York Stock Exchange.
Robert2706
28th Apr 2016
2
Thanks for voting!
I agree with the statements in Hawke008.

There will undoubtably be challenges ahead but we need to make the effort to stand on our own two feet if only we could find some honest , not for profit MP's to lead a Government committed to making it work. If we say Out who is man enough to really fight for a Independent , proud and honest UK/

Out, Out, Out
Samwise
27th Apr 2016
0
Thanks for voting!
I am staggered by the current polling and am dismayed if this is genuinely what the UK think. Having worked for a very large US technological company for many years prior to my retirement 18 months ago I know that they already have plans to abandon the UK if they ever leave Europe ... and that several similar companies were also undertaking the same planning. It seems that people seem to believe that the grass will be greener on the other side of Europe, but I am absolutely convinced that this will not be the case. People want control of their own borders, but this will be much worse if we leave. The worry is not EU migration (and remember that we have more people living and working abroad than any other EU country) it is terrorism - people from within being turned against our values by religious fanatics. Any move to leave will leave us with 3500km plus of coast to protect, along with the border between Eire and NI and all of the small islands around the coast ..... we will end up like the Lesbos of Greece, and the EU countries will be happy to let pirates take people from their nations and dump them around our coast. Seriously it will be absolute folly to leave, as we get far more from being in than people seem to realise.
Roof Top Crow
28th Apr 2016
0
Thanks for voting!
Like you I am retired from day to day business life although I still have business interests. All of the businesses I am involved with have a plan of action should we leave the EU. I am not saying they would leave but it makes sense to have a plan just in case.

For many business Ireland is an option and they would pay less tax, Scotland might become an option.
And for the IT, Finance and Service industries a move to to France, Belgium, Holland or Germany would be OK. Everybody works in English so that is not a problem and commuting back and forth by train or plane is easy.
redfive
27th Apr 2016
2
Thanks for voting!
If the EU is so good why do they have to tell us all a load of LIES ABOUT IT. VOTE LEAVE.
Hawke008
27th Apr 2016
0
Thanks for voting!
The following, copied from social media, makes a significant comment on the machinations of the EU. It is a little long but read to the end.
For those people who think our future lies within the EU, read the following and share.
BETSY M MACKAY wrote.......I, probably like most of my generation, knew very little about the EU. I had done a Masters degree in the 70s; brought up my family, and by the early 2000s was ready to return to University. I was privileged to return to University to complete a Second Masters Degree; this time in European Policy, European Law and European Economic Analysis. Words cannot describe the horror I felt as I delved into the truth of the EU. Sends shivers down my spine to this day, remembering the horror of the realisation, that we had been hoodwinked into the EU by deceitful, disingenuous, intentionally devious means. The populace of the UK was never intended to find out the truth behind the EU, until they reckoned it was too late. Truth it is almost....almost...almost too late. We already are, in the UK, all but a federal state in the United States of Europe. You never quite realised that, did you? Why? Because ' they very deliberately decided not to tell you! They deliberately created a political elite who knew full well that power was being ceded , systematically, Treaty by Treaty, to the EU. But who knew? They did! But were we the UK populace ever informed? Absolutely not! Why? They made mega millions from EU scammery & we the minions were shafted day, daily, monthly, yearly & forever. Where did your pensions go? Where did your schools, your NHS, your housing, your social services go? Well, £55 million per day, every day, every week, every month, every year..... Guess what? That is why UK is bankrupted for generations to come, with a £1.5 trillion pound debt. I wish I could enlighten the populace of the UK to the real truth about the EU. I spent a year studying the EU in depth, visiting both the EU Parliament and EU Commission in Brussels. Every word I heard in lectures, hundreds of hours of lectures, every word I researched for my thesis and every thing I saw in Brussels, lead me to the inescapable conclusion that the EU is an utterly corrupt, profligate, political monstrosity which has destroyed British jobs and bankrupted the UK for generations to come. The EU operates on lobbying, which is the technical term for bribery and corruption. Whatever Cameron says, EU law has supremacy over our UK law unless there is Treaty change. He may say so but the truth is that 27 other countries will never agree, this side of eternity, to change the Treaties.
So …..what is the connection between the EU, the Bilderberg Group and the almost completed TTIP? (Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership)
The Bilderberg Group meet in secret each year and they are a group of phenomenally wealthy men and women from the worlds of big business, banking and politics, coming from across Europe and the US.
The TTIP represents an integral component of Bilderberg’s attempt to rescue the unipolar world (New World Order) by creating a “world company,” initially a free trade area, which would connect the United States with Europe. Just as the European Union started as a mere free trade area and was eventually transformed into a political federation which controls upwards of 50 per cent of its member states’ laws and regulations with total contempt for national sovereignty and democracy, TTIP is designed to accomplish the same goal, only on a bigger scale.
The treaty is likely to advantage the corporations of both the US and the EU, while disadvantaging their people. It presents a danger to democracy and public protection throughout the trading area.
The Bilderberg Group are focussing on how to derail a global political awakening that threatens to hinder Bilderberg’s long standing agenda to centralize power into a one world political federation, a goal set to be advanced with the passage of the Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership (TTIP),
Bilderberg globalists are aghast and there is panic in the ranks that their planned EU superstate is being eroded as a result of a populist resistance all around Europe, mainly centred around animosity towards uncontrolled immigration policies.
And just who might we expect to find at such a secret gathering? Angela Merkel, Herman Van Rompuy (ex President of EU Council), Jean Claude Juncker, (Present President of the EU Commission), Martin Schultz,( Present President of EU Parliament), David Cameron, George Osbourne, Tony Blair, Ed Balls, Rona Fairhead, (Chair of the BBC Trust), Michael O’Leary of RyanAir, Stuart Rose (ex M & S, and BSE Chairman), Bill Clinton, Barak Obama………..…and many more. What do they all have in common? They are all trying to persuade you to stay in the EU. Why? Because it is in their warped self interest to do so! Is any of this in your interests? Absolutely not! Their modus operandi is that truth becomes lies and lies become truth. Sound familiar?
No possible option available, other than to get Out of EU ASAP. Vote Leave!

Credits to : Betsy M Mackay
Roof Top Crow
28th Apr 2016
1
Thanks for voting!
Basing your views on what Betsy M Mackay is saying is a mistake.
Betsy is American but she can vote on 23 June. In the past few weeks these are a few of her comments on Facebook.
God reigns and have mercy on the UK.
Lord extricate us from the evil empire of the EU.
Like most of my generation I know little about the EU.
My Lord God deliver us from the evil which is the EU.
10 Brilliant things the Queen has said about God.
Betsy has said much more and all of them are along the same lines. But adding to the list would take us back to early April.
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The Betsy article you quote from is full of financial inaccuracies and very clearly she has no understanding of how democratic governments worldwide work and cooperate together.
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Betsy has this paranoid belief that the UK, the EU, the USA, Bilderberg, TTIP and as many names and groups as she can think of, are all conspiring to take over the world. The only people she has missed out so far are the Masons, the Monster Raving Looney Party and North Korea, but there is still time.
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Betsy does not tell us how leaving the EU would separate the UK from this evil empire (Betsy's words not mine) because logically if they are as all powerful as she says then there is no hiding place.
And if you follow her reasoning to any kind of conclusion it means that an elected UK Government would not be able to talk to the leaders of any other country in the world.
latin
28th Apr 2016
1
Thanks for voting!
I think this is the best comment of the year.
Its all out there for people who want to find out the truth of what you say. I hope they will do.
Put your comment on Facebook ,send it to Times Telegraph Sun Observer even the Gaurdian,someone will print it I am sure.
Well done and thanks for your time!
latin
28th Apr 2016
0
Thanks for voting!
My praise comment is meant for Hawke008,it reads as though I meant Roof Top Crow.
Anyway I will repeat my compliment to Hawke 008 ,well said !
lcoulby
27th Apr 2016
3
Thanks for voting!
I think there are £350 million reasons a week to say leave. I am aware that we get about 50% of that back in projects funded by the EU, however who runs a business where they only get back 50% of what they put in?
Even if £175 million was paid out by the Government to cover the funding we could lose if we opted out, that still leaves another £175 million per week that would benefit the NHS and many other austerity measures too.
Then there is the argument of having control of our own country, borders and laws, to say but a few.
Our nation has fought many a battle and lost many lives to avoid out independence being lost and I do not want to be a federal state of the 'United States of Europe' and I really hope everyone wakes up to that fact before 23rd June and votes to leave!
latin
28th Apr 2016
-1
Thanks for voting!
Marley444
27th Apr 2016
1
Thanks for voting!
I still don't think I have enough facts to make my decision. I am concerned that perhaps I never will!
latin
28th Apr 2016
0
Thanks for voting!
Can I recommend Hawk008 comment , you then have a research starting point!
Bilderburg Group is what you need to research'


Very dangerous indeed.
This is why we are being swamped by mass third world immigrants!
Remember Cameron saying we are two white and he wants a future Muslim Prime Minister!
Wilf
28th Apr 2016
0
Thanks for voting!
Russia will be the only happy nation if we leave. Why upset the status quo-Uk is 5th richest country in the world why on earth risk that for ourselves and our kids. Simple argument
latin
28th Apr 2016
0
Thanks for voting!
The only one ,the only one?

How do you make that out,the people all over the EU are rising up!
If you like Germanynand admire it so much why don't you go and live there.
HEAPUS
27th Apr 2016
0
Thanks for voting!
One of the reasons I will be voting to leave is "snake oil Dave "thinks its a good idea to remain,I wouldn't you buy a car from him I'm certainly not buying the rest of his garbage?
Catrina700
26th Apr 2016
4
Thanks for voting!
The European Union is so good that other countries are queueing up to get out, should we vote to leave. The domino effect is what Merkel & Co fear most.
Roof Top Crow
27th Apr 2016
1
Thanks for voting!
If we vote to leave the EU the other 27 countries will take the sensible course of action and do nothing until they can see what happens to the UK outside of the EU.
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If leaving is successful then they will do the same thing. If it is not successful they will be pleased they did not make the same mistake.
latin
28th Apr 2016
1
Thanks for voting!
If we don't come out several others will!
Austria has just voted in the Far Right!
Germany is having huge rallys.France and the Netherlands are going right, and the EURO is failing!
Merkel will be dead in the water.
Hungary and Polands leaders refuse to take Muslims as they wish to remain Christian nations.
It will all implode regardless of us!
Civil war will be next.
Roof Top Crow
28th Apr 2016
1
Thanks for voting!
70 million people died in the Second World War. Stopping any further wars in Europe was the reasoning behind the formation of a united Europe. A Europe that was to be linked culturally, politically and economically and in doing so we would avoid going to war ever again.
Winston Churchill called for the United States of Europe. So far his plan has been very successful, and we are in the longest period of peace in the history of Europe.
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If we leave the EU it might trigger the kind disaster you describe as a Civil war. The kind of war we see in Syria. With societies destroyed and millions of refugees. Becoming isolationist and pulling up the drawbridge would not save us. The UK would be dragged into a war that would cost us thousands of our lives and set us back many decades.
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There is no denying that the EU is very far from perfect but is has stopped the kind of wars that held Europe back for many years and cost millions of lives.
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None of us can say what would happen if we leave the EU, and that includes the leaders of the Brexit group.
What I do know is that if we remain in the EU we will continue to live in one of the most politically stable, socially balanced and wealthiest countries in the world, and have a legacy we can pass on to the next generations.
Speeednet
29th Apr 2016
-1
Thanks for voting!
The EU had nothing to do with stopping wars it was NATO. Another figment of the imagination by the remain group.
latin
28th Apr 2016
0
Thanks for voting!
NATO has kept the peace not The EU!
scandiman
25th Apr 2016
5
Thanks for voting!
I want to say thank you to all those clever politicians who have ensured, through meetings behind closed doors, through deliberate falsehood, the creation by stealth of a federal Europe. This has crept in, with the electorate having no say in it up until now, when it is actually too late. Congratulations to you all. You have also ensured that anyone wanting to leave this bloated, corrupt and expensive club will find it almost impossible to do so. Well done.
latin
28th Apr 2016
0
Thanks for voting!
Scandiman I will still vote out and can't find one person who chooses to stay in.
Their is real anger and if they play with the votes I can see things kicking off big time.
The EU is failing all country's rising up,if we don't come out others will.
Merkel can't save the corrupt baby she and her Europrats have created no matter what twisting and lies she spits out .
StYing is not an option we can't continue to watch the demise of our country because Cameron and Merkil and Co says so.
Wilf
28th Apr 2016
0
Thanks for voting!
I want to stay in. Germany is the 4th richest country globally...UK 5th...France 6th...why leave a rich club to be out on your own. Just makes no sense at all!
Roof Top Crow
25th Apr 2016
4
Thanks for voting!
The Brexit campaign leaks information every day and they admit they have lost the argument about being better off if we leave the EU. This has triggered a leadership squabble and Boris Johnson, the lame duck London Mayor will have to be sacrificed, and with it goes his chance of being PM.
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So what next for Brexit. All they have left is immigration and the NHS, and sure enough Michael Gove published an article today on that very subject. To add to the confusion the MP Dominic Raab a Brexit supporter published an article on emigration. He says that that if we leave the EU we will need a visa to travel to Europe and logically need a visa to live in Europe.
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I can only assume that Brexit supporters are not in touch with each other. But it did make me think of all the Brits who have holiday homes in Spain and France etc. It is estimated something like 500,000 retired or semi-retired Brits have holiday homes in the EU. If we leave they will lose their EU health card and their UK pension will be frozen at today’s rate.
These retirees or nearly retired Brits are already returning at an ever increasing rate. If we vote to leave there will be a surge of them coming back to the UK as getting a residency visa in places like Spain and France will be close to impossible.
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These returning retirees will not work and pay tax, unlike most immigrants and they will have instant access to our social services. They will need places to live and just like all the rest of us pensioners they will be a huge cost to the NHS. Meanwhile we will be asking the immigrants who work in our care homes and in the NHS to go back to their country of birth.
latin
28th Apr 2016
0
Thanks for voting!
You sound like a Blair Tory with Corbin edges!
latin
28th Apr 2016
0
Thanks for voting!
I gave you a vote up and it was supposed to be a vote down.
You sound like dodgy Dave and his scare tactics.
Roof Top Crow
28th Apr 2016
-1
Thanks for voting!
That is OK. I think I am leading the negative votes category.
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I get the same information as everybody else. The expat newspapers in Spain, France and Portugal are full of articles about expats having to come back to the UK.
Wilf
28th Apr 2016
0
Thanks for voting!
yes why would we want that?
latin
28th Apr 2016
-1
Thanks for voting!
Are you talking about the same Spain that has declared it will take back Gibraltar the very next day if we leave the EU ?

Is that the same Spain that imports far more stuff to us than we export to them?

I don't think their or your scaremongering fools anyone!

I think you are bored and just trolling along.
latin
28th Apr 2016
0
Thanks for voting!
What next for the EU ,more of the same?
Dodgy Dave got nowhere with hid deal and we have been at the top table for years and got nowhere with that- so how are you going to change things and bring back democracy?
I want our money spent here and our borders closed end of!
peternicho
24th Apr 2016
2
Thanks for voting!
The american president Obama has suggested that we stay in the EU as we may be at the back of a queue for around ten years to agree a trade agrement with the usa. He is not being honest and has an hidden agenda, perhaps he should also realise that he put his foot in his mouth when he timed his speech to coincide with St Georges Day he should have done his due diligence and he would have found out that the british people do not take kindly to being bullied or told what to do by anyone. He should also realise that america needs the uk more than the uk needs america. I will vote to leave the eu completely, we need to make our own law, make our own decisions and be brave enough to walk our own path in life.
scandiman
23rd Apr 2016
2
Thanks for voting!
Thank you for your reply Roof Top Crow.
Hattie
23rd Apr 2016
2
Thanks for voting!
All very well the president of USA telling UK to stay in EU. Do you think the President or, the American people would let an unelected party of people probably earning vasts amount of money make and change their laws? I have nothing against The President or the American people.

Or, put up with HR rubbish that lets evil criminals wander our streets because we can't use our own justice system to either deport them or keep them in jail?

As for building Racing Bikes/ Fancy Cars/ Luxury Yachts which mostly goes abroad, not much use to the thousands who don't work in those big corporations who of course want to stay in the EU.

London has always been a main financial centre. Have we forgotten already, tax payers having to bale out banks and bankers that were supposed to be looking after our interests.

When we can make our own laws and guard our own border's without interference from EU i might think about it, but then, who in the EU is going to give a fig what Hattie want's, they will just keep doing and going by their laws.
Roof Top Crow
23rd Apr 2016
2
Thanks for voting!
Hello Scandiman
I am a little older than you and I agree that a lot of things have changed.
It is true that most cars built in the UK are made in foreign owned factories. In return those businesses employ many thousands of people and pay the treasury a lot of tax.
But that is only part of the picture. The UK leads the world in designing and building specialist road cars such as Morgan, Caterham, Mclaren, Westerham, and Ginetta. We also design and build more racing cars than any other country in the world and UK names such as Mclaren Racing, and Williams have world recognition. These two parts of the motor industry are very closely linked and they employ thousands of people.
Motorbikes are another success with Triumph Motorcycles building over 50,000 bikes a year and many smaller specialist businesses such as Greeves creating off road and race bikes.
In the IT industry the UK is one of the leading countries in the world. We do not build stuff because for that you need very cheap labour. What we do extremely well is the coding and software. The list is too long for this forum but our coding and software is to be found in products throughout the world. The IT industry employs thousands of people in the UK.
In the financial services industry we are a world leader. Tokyo, London and New York being the worlds 3 main financial centres. Just one part of the financial service industry is foreign currency exchange. The UK manages over 80% of the world’s foreign currency transactions every day of the week. The financial services industry in the UK employs thousands of people.
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We will never be able to compete in the coal industry as it is only makes commercial sense if you can employ very cheap labour, and let them work in dreadful conditions. The same applies to ship building, although we do build some of the best luxury yachts in the world.
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Yes many things have changed but mostly it is for the better. We have low unemployment, girls can now compete on an even playing field in all the professions and without doubt they are the real driving force in design. We are living longer and despite the problem of obesity we are all much healthier.
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The UK is a fantastic country and despite our being less than 1% of the world’s population and 13% of the EU community we continue to achieve great things. If we place ourselves behind a trade barrier by leaving the EU it is inevitable that these industries, and many others will slow down, and some will not survive.
latin
28th Apr 2016
0
Thanks for voting!
Roof Top you start well and then spoil it all in the last paragraph .
Scandiman sounds very wise and does not need you to push your negative view of our survival outside a dying EU.
We will do very well thankyou,as I have said before how do you think we will manage to keep a dying EU afloat?

Remember one cap can never be made to fit all as we have already found out!
Hattie
23rd Apr 2016
-2
Thanks for voting!
Now Mr. Cameron is getting President of USA helping him with his referendum, telling us we should stay in the EU or end up at the end of the queue for trade. Sounded like a warning to me.

Can you imagine what the American people would say if Mr. Cameron went there telling them how to sort their gun laws or any other political issues in their country.

Still going to vote OUT.
latin
28th Apr 2016
0
Thanks for voting!
jeanmark
23rd Apr 2016
0
Thanks for voting!
No, the President of the USA is stating the facts in relation to how his country would react if we voted to leave.That isn't a warning.

In relation to the comment that Mr. Cameron is getting the President of the USA to help him with his referendum ignores the fact that the leader of the Labour party also supports the 'in' campaign. How does that fit in with the argument?
latin
28th Apr 2016
-1
Thanks for voting!
They have already apologised for Obaama and his remarks and interference in our elections ,they said it wasn't true and we will always be at the front of any queue.
Obaama was giving his own opinion not facts!

It's all out there on the web,it is so obvious dodgy Dave has dragged in anyone he can backed by Merkel and Co to lie and scare people to stay in a failing EU.

As I have already written if we don't come out many others will,and where will that leaves then ?

Are people not aware of what is happening in the EU and that country's are voting in far right party's ,if everything is so swimming in the EU why are people rising up?
Roof Top Crow
23rd Apr 2016
1
Thanks for voting!
It is a warning and it is not a new warning.
The USA has been telling us the same thing for months and months. The leave organisations made a decision to ignore the very strong messages that have been coming out of the USA. Ultimately the most powerful and influential man on the planet had to come and tell us to our face.

We do criticize the USA. You only have to look at what our PM has said about the Republican Party and Donald Trump
annbakeronegmailcom
22nd Apr 2016
3
Thanks for voting!
I still don't feel adequately informed. The politicians all give their own opinions, most of which differ from each other but how do we know who is giving us the right information?
latin
28th Apr 2016
0
Thanks for voting!
Research,read German papers in English ,read Italian ones etc ,you will find out what is happening.

Seek out comments in all papers etc.
It's out there if you want it.
scandiman
22nd Apr 2016
1
Thanks for voting!
I feel there is someone missing from the debate. Where is that 'pretty-straight-kinda-guy', Saint Anthony Blair? Surely he can be dragged from one of his multi-million pound properties to give us the benefit of his wisdom? Or is he still wrapping up his successful term as Middle East peace envoy?
Roof Top Crow
21st Apr 2016
0
Thanks for voting!
Michael Gove (MG) is a very good speaker and his speech on April 19th was well written and very creative. I was hoping that MG would tell us why our economy would be stronger and we would all be safer and happier if we voted to leave the EU.
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MG did not do that, but he did tell us a story. A fantasy story. The story was all about what would happen if we voted to leave the EU. The core of the story is that that having decided to leave the EU the remaining 27 EU countries would all start working together to ensure that the UK becomes wealthier, stronger, more secure and a “happier place”
MG then added some detail to the fantasy. MG said that if we left the biggest and strongest trading bloc in the world the 27 members would not impose tariffs or trading restrictions on the UK or even ask us to cooperate with them. MG told us that the remaining 27 countries would be bending over backwards to ensure that the UK would still be able to trade and move freely within the EU, keep all the rights that go with being in membership and as a sort of bonus they would not charge us a fee, as they do to Norway.
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Unfortunately MG did not explain why France and Germany and the other EU countries would agree to a deal with the UK that would be better than the agreement they have themselves. But then when you listen to a fantasy story you have to recognise that it is after all a fantasy, and not reality.
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I do not think I need to come to a conclusion. It was after all just a story and we can now get back to reality.
PS. The words “happier place” belong to Michael Gove, not me.
scandiman
21st Apr 2016
2
Thanks for voting!
I am in my early 60s. I know nothing stays the same, but this country has changed hugely from the UK of my childhood. We have no car or motor cycle manufacturers; we build them for others. What is left of ours are owned by Ford or BMW. My home is full of German or Japanese electronics. There is no choice. Our ship-building industry is almost non-existent. We have coal we are not allowed to dig out. In every sphere, from education, military, the judiciary, police and NHS, the work of the politically correct, the left wing control freaks has rendered them neutered. Our senior politicians claim they know what is best, yet it is their failure to stand up for UK that has created the mess we're in. The gap between the wealthy and privileged and the less fortunate is bigger than ever. I absolutely despair of this country's future. On the most important issue of the age, membership of EU, we are, as usual lied to by squabbling, petty politicians.
jeanmark
23rd Apr 2016
-1
Thanks for voting!
Of course the country has changed since your childhood because the only constant is change. We can not compare our country with how things were 43 years ago because things progress whether you like that progression or not.
latin
28th Apr 2016
0
Thanks for voting!
No ,corrupt people and corrupt EU have changed our country but EU country's are coming to their senses !
Jo Kingham
20th Apr 2016
3
Thanks for voting!
The EU has grown too big - it's time to control our own destiny (and borders) again!
latin
28th Apr 2016
0
Thanks for voting!
We have several Trolls out today putting a positive spin on the corrupt EU Jo!
Roof Top Crow
20th Apr 2016
-1
Thanks for voting!
Chris Grayling and Nigel Farage. My memory, which is supported by Google, tells me that just a few short months ago they were politically opposed to each other. But things must have changed. A couple of days ago, there they were, shaking hands and telling an already converted audience why we should leave the EU.
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Nigel Farage and George Galloway an even more strange partnership. Politically I thought they were miles apart. How odd it is that that the Moscow sponsored TV channel Russia Today should bring them together.
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Arron Banks as well as being a great mate of Nigel Farage has pledged millions to the Brexit campaign. But I understand that he cannot vote because he is not domiciled in the UK. It is hard to say where he lives, some reports say Belize and others say Isle of Man.
But now that his name has now been leaked in the Panama Papers we can also see that in addition to Belize and the IoM he has money in the British Virgin Islands and interests in mining in Northern Cape and Lesotho.
Roof Top Crow
19th Apr 2016
-2
Thanks for voting!
Boris Johnson wrote in the Daily Telegraph in May 2013.

Mr Johnson added that, “More generally, there is a risk that leaving the EU will be globally interpreted as a narrow, xenophobic, backward-looking thing to do.”

This was presumably before Mr Boris Johnson realized that if he joined the Leave party and they won, he would end up as the leader of the Conservative party and Prime Minister.

Hypocritical is a word Boris used last week. It is a word that he would easily recognize as a description of his own character.
hazelmurf
19th Apr 2016
3
Thanks for voting!
I don't mind if it costs us a little at first , we need our dignity and sovereignty back. The government want us to stay in so their mates in Europe parliament can keep their overpaid jobs.
Roof Top Crow
18th Apr 2016
-2
Thanks for voting!
We still have no information from the Vote EU side. All we get are shouted statements that everybody on the remain side is wrong and the leave side are right.
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Vote Leave have not explained why leaving the EU side will be better for all of us or produced any data for us to read and understand.
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Today they said the same thing following a Treasury prepared report. No explanation from Vote Leave but just the same shouted report that it is wrong.
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Mind you they they managed to get Ian Botham (yes the same Ian Botham the test cricket captain 20 years ago) onto the front page of The Sunday Times. Ian says we should leave the EU and trade with New Zealand, Australia and The Caribbean. I am not sure how Ian works out that trading with a total of 66 million people would replace 500 million in the EU.
latin
28th Apr 2016
0
Thanks for voting!
Now that's enough trolling for one day Roof Top Crow ,you must be worn out.
Cameron will reward you for putting such a wonderful spin on the Europhile lies if you repeat yourself enough you will believe it!
mccollmbe
17th Apr 2016
-2
Thanks for voting!
Stronger together ! Getting out will be a retrograde step, in my opinion.
latin
28th Apr 2016
1
Thanks for voting!
I think every year we have remained in the EU has been a retrograde step,what evidence have you got that the 5 largest economy can't survive without Mother Merkel holding its hand !

The EU dosent want us apart from wanting our hard earnt tax money to waste on pet projects and line their pockets and it wants us as the Alcatras of the EU project ,any dodgy person is passed on to us !

In case you hadn't noticed the far right is rising and we as a country are full to the brim!

Merkels nation will vote her out and they are. marching because of mass immigration ,but you hear none of this from Cameron do you.

I wonder why.

America has apologised for Obamas threat to us and said he should not have interfered in our politics .
It said we will always be at the front and we will always remain special!

Makes you wonder what dodgy Dave has done for Obama to get him to say these things !
mayroyd
17th Apr 2016
4
Thanks for voting!
You look too young to remember life in the UK before the Government bounded happily into Europe. We were told the Common Market, as it was called then, would make prices cheaper. IT DID NOT - and has made living more and more expensive ever since.
jeanmark
19th Apr 2016
-1
Thanks for voting!
I am old enough to have lived pre-EU but surely progress has made things more expensive. We can't blame the EU for everything.
latin
28th Apr 2016
0
Thanks for voting!
Oh yes we can.
Cameron blames everything on leaving ,so tell me why we can't blame everything on the EU!
Wilf
19th Apr 2016
0
Thanks for voting!
Yes I agree the UK economy was in a right mess in the 70s...3 day weeks, no electricity, we were about 6x worse off economically...high unemployment...I know I was unemployed!
jennys59
16th Apr 2016
-1
Thanks for voting!
I am thinking about voting tho leave the EU, but in doing so are we going to lose all of the rights we have now? And what will all our rights be replaced with?
latin
28th Apr 2016
0
Thanks for voting!
The EU sorted that did it? don't make me laugh!
latin
28th Apr 2016
0
Thanks for voting!
This was meant for Wilf
Roof Top Crow
18th Apr 2016
0
Thanks for voting!
Nobody knows what will happen if we leave. The leave campaign have said very little about what they would do. It will be a leap into the unknown.
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We will certainly lose all of the rights that go with being citizens of a country that is a member of the EU.

One of the Leave campaign people talked about having a bonfire of EU regulations. I am not sure what that means but I do remember a 1966 film called Fahrenheit 451.
The basis of the story is that society is controlled by a ruling party that burns everything they do not want you to read.
PS. Paper burns at F 451.
latin
28th Apr 2016
1
Thanks for voting!
What rubbish more Cameron lies,tell us what we will gain by staying in the sinking EU project?
jeanmark
28th Apr 2016
0
Thanks for voting!
Latin, you have the right to your opinion but why do you only name David Cameron in relation to all things negative about staying in the EU when Jeremy Corbin has also pledged to stay in?
latin
28th Apr 2016
0
Thanks for voting!
Why? Because Cameron is the Govenment of the day and HE is the one who failed and lied in his so called EU negotiations !

He came back claiming a success yet the EU say nothing is in writing and MEPs can vote everything down!

Cameron is no Tory he is New Labour and he has put his head on the parapet so that's it!
jeanmark
28th Apr 2016
0
Thanks for voting!
Oops, Corbyn.....
Plutako
16th Apr 2016
0
Thanks for voting!
My wife and I have lived in Spain for over 20 years and have no problem with the EU. It is not perfect, but neither is the UK Parliament. We have had 43 years of connection with the EU and have a say in what happens. If we leave, the remaining EU members will react like a woman scorned. Forget what Boris says there will no easy renegotiation of trade arrangements. The UK will be out in the COLD ALONE!
latin
28th Apr 2016
1
Thanks for voting!
Stop moaning and come back here and live ,if you think it's so good why aren't you still in the UK.
Spain is not like us are you on benefits and have a house given and free health or are we paying for your health care ?
scandiman
16th Apr 2016
6
Thanks for voting!
I saw a photo the other day of three people taking calls from public, explaining to them why we should stay in Eu. They were that well known dream team, Cameron, Corbyn and Kinnock. One ignores the less well off in favour of the rich. One can't decide which side he's on. One is an EU commissioner for paper clips. Would anyone seriously believe a word from any of them? Why would anyone vote to remain in a club that hasn't produced verifiable accounts for decades? The amount we pay in membership is considerably more than we get back. Officials we didn't elect tell us how to live. Yes I know we elect MEPs, but the real power lies with Merkel and the President. We didn't sign up for ever close political union. We didn't sign up for mass immigration. We can manage without it. The Remain side are telling us how bad it would be if we left, not telling us the advantages of staying in. If we vote to stay in because we are too timid to take a bold step and leave, we deserve everything EU will throw at us. Did we fight two world wars, costing millions of lives and nearly bankrupting us, for THIS? If we stay in, history will judge us as the generation that threw away everything that we used to stand for.
latin
28th Apr 2016
1
Thanks for voting!
We have plenty of on here telling us it's our Utopia!
jeanmark
19th Apr 2016
1
Thanks for voting!
Why do some people keep referring to the World Wars when discussing the in/out campaign? The clue is in the title "World Wars" this means other EU countries (and non-EU) were also fighting and a number of them didn't have a sea to protect them from invasion.
latin
28th Apr 2016
1
Thanks for voting!
Yes, and the EU has prevented no wars it's NATO that protects us!
mayroyd
17th Apr 2016
1
Thanks for voting!
scandiman
You are so right. company must be grinding their ghostly teeth at how easy it has been for the pen pushers to gain what he wanted.
Let's get out whilst some of us still remember Great Britain as it was!
Joe Slater
16th Apr 2016
2
Thanks for voting!
Sorry pressed wrong button, thought it was yes to leave EU. I will be voting leave, voted no first time and successive times. From what I have seen the EU is two member club and we are not one of them. Now it seems that for David Cameron to get Merkel's backing he must agree to a European Armed Force. How much more of our soveriegnty is he willing to give up. If the UK votes to stay in the EU say goodbye to life as you know it for we will no longer have a country to call home.
JackieBrown
15th Apr 2016
5
Thanks for voting!
Article 50 of the Treaty of Lisbon states that:
1. Any Member State may decide to withdraw from the Union in accordance with its own constitutional requirements.”
2. A Member State which decides to withdraw shall notify the European Council of its intention. In the light of the guidelines provided by the European Council, the Union shall negotiate and conclude an agreement with that State, setting out the arrangements for its withdrawal, taking account of the framework for its future relationship with the Union. That agreement shall be negotiated in accordance with Article 218(3) of the Treaty on the Functioning of the European Union. It shall be concluded on behalf of the Union by the Council, acting by a qualified majority, after obtaining the consent of the European Parliament.
3. The Treaties shall cease to apply to the State in question from the date of entry into force of the withdrawal agreement or, failing that, two years after the notification referred to in paragraph 2, unless the European Council, in agreement with the Member State concerned, unanimously decides to extend this period.

So basically we have the right to leave the EU. From the date of notifying the European Council we have two years to negotiate the terms of our leaving including any trade agreements, which would probably be pretty good as they wont want to give up on a lucrative market for their goods. Finally, with or without agreement, any and all treaties would cease to apply to the UK two years after notifying our intention to leave. During these two years we would also be free to negotiate trade agreements with anybody else we choose to trade with.

Those who say that the economic, politic and ecological advances we have made are entirely due to membership of the EU and that we risk losing all the progress we have made and losing out on so many rights and achievements, seem to be drastically under estimating the British people if they think that the progress we made in all these areas, from the beginning of the last century up until the time we joined the then Common Market, would not have continued without the directives of the European "supernanny" or that we will not continue to progress. A bit insulting really!

I see no point in remaining in a system which has morphed out of all recognition from its original concept and which will continue to try to control all aspects of our lives. It has already made it easy for huge chunks of our industry, utilities and services to be privatised, sold off or leased to outside interests; aided and abetted by successive governments concerned only with surface show and money in their pockets.

Not only will leaving the EU put us back in control of our country and our borders, we might even be able to bring our government under control - a definite bonus!
pansypotter
14th Apr 2016
3
Thanks for voting!
The EU is definitely not for me I look at it like I give my neighbour all my money every year and he gives me a little bit back but then I can only spend it on what he tells me to. Not a good deal on any stretch of the imagination if we sign up to them we are giving away our freedom once locked in who knows what they will do
Hattie
13th Apr 2016
4
Thanks for voting!
I will be voting OUT. But, i have to say, that is because of my age and remember before we joined the EU. i have listened and read (not the 9 million leaflet) to both sides. I don't know why, but the Stay In blurb always sounds like the EU is dictating to me. I do feel a little guilty because i feel sorry for the younger generation.

If! if! the vote turns out to be STAY IN that is it! we can't turn back.
5-10 years down the line EU will just churn out thousands of pages legislation that no one bothers to read plus, they can make whatever laws they like and we will have to abide by them.

I don't know, sitting here i can't think of anything truly British anymore, no steel, no coal, we are an Island and even have fishing restrictions there is probably more i can't think of at the moment.

Anyway, roll on June get it over with.
Lythamlucy
13th Apr 2016
0
Thanks for voting!
Really can't make up my mind things for and against been waiting for a good debate on the television
latin
28th Apr 2016
1
Thanks for voting!
We'll be warned ,every time someone says they haven't made up their mind

It is funny he will brainwash you in such a subtle way you won't feel a thing.

Don't be fooled he is Cameron Mark 2.

Fairy tale Fairy tale to make you remain in the corrupt failing EU.
Roof Top Crow
12th Apr 2016
1
Thanks for voting!
It is not a matter of having little faith in our country, it is a matter of the commercial reality of who we are going to trade with in today’s world.
There are 5 trading blocs, APEC, CAIRNS GROUP, G20, NAFTA and the EU. We are members of the EU It is the most powerful trading bloc in the world, with a GDP almost as large as the USA. Those 5 trading blocs represent 85% of world trade every day of the week.
Trading blocs are all protectionist and they make outsiders pay to trade with its members. If we leave the EU we will have to pay an annual fee to trade with EU members and pay an annual fee to trade with members of the other trading blocs. Just like Norway does in order to trade with EU members.

I cannot think of any recent legislation from the EU that has been against our interest.

I retired a short while ago after over 30 years of starting and running small and medium sized businesses. The EU rules are in practice very minimal and all they involve is a bit of paperwork. It is simply a matter of measuring the time it takes to fill out a small amount of paperwork against the commercial benefits that come from being able to trade with 500 million people without restriction. The trading benefits win out every time.

John Longworth had to resign because he holds views that are very different to the majority of BCC members. He abused his role as a spokesman and administrator, if he had not resigned he would have been dismissed.

I am not sure how you can say that the EU needs us more then we need them. The population of the EU is 500 million. The population of the UK is 65 million or 13%. We make a lot of noise but we are in reality a member just like everybody else.

If we leave it is to be expected that EU members will restructure the way they work with the UK. Overseas owned businesses will be pulled out of the UK because of the export tariffs that will be placed upon the UK. For example, Germany will almost certainly take Rolls Royce and Bentley back to Germany. France will take Airbus back to France and the City will re locate to Frankfurt. That will be just the start.

I want to listen to the reasons for us to leave the EU. The two groups that say we will be better outside the EU are Vote Leave and Leave.EU/Grassroots Out. Both groups are in internal chaos and spend their time squabbling with each other. They have both failed to produce any kind of document that we can read and understand how they will replace the business we will lose if we leave the EU.

I went off for a cup of tea. Whilst drinking my tea the news came through that the International Monetary Fund has stated that leaving the EU would cause major damage to the UK and Europe.
latin
28th Apr 2016
1
Thanks for voting!
This is pure guess work and Cameron scaremongering .
Roof Top Crow
28th Apr 2016
-1
Thanks for voting!
The data I use comes from Wikipedia, Google, the Department of Trade, the EU and data sources worldwide. Nothing from Brexit as they have not published any data.

My opinions, and they are my opinions, are mostly triggered by the Financial Pages in the broadsheets and by the business programmes on TV.

I try to bring to the forum the importance of commerce. It is commerce that funds our society and pays for the NHS, education and pensions.

Is it guess work or is it forecasting ? they very similar.
Like everyone else I start by choosing the facts I want to use, I then put a little time into assembling them into a workable format, read it a couple of times and publish it in the forum.

What do you do to substantiate your opinions.?
.
Catrina700
12th Apr 2016
4
Thanks for voting!
If the European Union is such a wonderful project, why are people in other countries across Europe putting pressure on their governments for a referendum? An anti Europe feeling is spreading like a rash right across Europe, parties that support these feelings don't exist unless people vote for them.

Some people seem to have little faith in our country and adopt the view we could never trade on our own, when we have done so for hundreds of years long before we got involved in this European Union nonsense. There are many countries around the world who trade successfully on their own and have nothing to do with Europe.

Governments across Europe increasingly have little control or say over how their country operates, the laws and decisions are made elsewhere often against their own interests. 70% of our laws are made in Brussels by people we don't even elect. The bosses of many of the small to medium size businesses often complain of how legislation holds them back and prevents growth, this applies right across Europe and accounts for some of the high unemployment we see today. Listen to John Longworth who was recently kicked out of the British Chambers of Commerce who is campaigning for Brexit he should know.

Europe needs us rather more than we need them, they also realise if we leave then other countries will follow. As the second biggest economy in Europe and the fifth largest in the world we should show them the way. I only hope if we do come out we have a more anti Europe leader than the two we have at the moment who cuddle up to Mercal. Dodgy Dave & boy George.
latin
28th Apr 2016
2
Thanks for voting!
I don't hear the In side tell us anything of what is really happening in the EU,they hope we don't notice and have dumbed down news agency's across the EU.

We need to stop paying the Corrupr EU out tax money to destroy our country,it is becoming unrecognisable !
Tinkers
11th Apr 2016
6
Thanks for voting!
When we voted to go into the Common Market many years ago, there were advantages but the whole ethos has changed and now we are ruled by a load of faceless individuals who never stop thinking of stupid laws to impose on us. For this privilege we pay a vast amount of money each day which could be used to improve all our services and put the Great into Great Britain again!
Frida
5th May 2016
0
Thanks for voting!
Hi All

For me, coming out of the Euro hopefully will bring a renewed pride in our own culture . I would like us to focus on building our own industries.

Local produce, textiles- yes, even steel. We are too reliant on Europe for goods.

I really do like being part of Europe but we , more than any country give away so much of our culture. I love other cultures but equally , I love mine. I work in London and when I talk to others from Europe who live here and attempt to discuss my culture, they know nothing about it. These people have been here for years. It is not their fault , we just do not seem to care about our own traditions.

When an event is organised, we have music laid on by other cultures, the food is often from another culture.

We have traditional music in this country , we have great food (despite what others say about us!)We just do not celebrate it

The problem is we don't even know how to define our own culture.

I want us to buy British, support small business, focus on training and education to fill our own employment gaps. We need to produce more highly skilled people such as doctors , nurses. We need to fund more science and foster home grown talent.

Leaving does not mean a lack of co-operation or trade. We are a small island but without industry and ways to self sustain in difficult times we will not survive. Europe has turned us into a financial and service industry. We are so reliant on other countries!
onerayco
9th Apr 2016
5
Thanks for voting!
We should revert to being governed by our own parliament and have our borders controlled by us and not dictated to by Brussels. We joined the Common Market trading group for the English and not to become a member of the European Union.
Roof Top Crow
8th Apr 2016
-3
Thanks for voting!
Your view that membership of the EU and joining the Euro has collectively been the downfall of these 5 countries is wrong.

After having the Euro in common you have to look individually at why each of those countries have economies that have not grown in the same way as UK and Germany. And primarily it is Government failure in each of those countries.

Spain. Very little manufacturing, agricultural decline, property bubble / banking failure.
Portugal. Very little manufacturing, fishing industry decline, property bubble / banking failure.
Italy. Massive tax avoidance, political instability with 61 changes in 50 years, banking failure.
Greece. They should not have been allowed to join.
France. 35 hour working week, militant farmers, out of control social services.
.
I do not understand why you think we would be better off by leaving the EU. The EU is one the biggest trading blocs in the world. We trade more with the EU than we do with any other country or region in the world and we can do this because we are members. Why would you want to withdraw our membership from our most successful trading agreement.
.
The EU has over 80 trading agreements with non-member countries already in place. These agreements include all of the most prosperous countries in the world who are not in EU membership.
If we leave we will have to negotiate a trading agreement with the EU, our biggest and most successful trading partner. If we leave we will have to negotiate trading agreements with all of the 80 countries that we had trading agreements with as EU members.
Catrina700
7th Apr 2016
3
Thanks for voting!
To judge how good Europe is you only have to look at the other countries inside it. Namely, Spain, Portugal, Italy, Greece, France. They were all capable of standing on their own two feet at one time and perhaps with the exception of Greece reasonably prosperous. Now they are bogged down with debt have very little growth and massive unemployment, some as much as 40%. Had we listened to the so-called experts who told us the world would cave in if we didn't join the Euro, we would be in the same position.

As the second largest economy in Europe we should take the opportunity to get out while we still can, stand on our own two feet again and start to trade with the more prosperous countries around the world. Britain didn't become great by being tied to Europe.

It's good to see the people of Holland vote No to Ukraine joining the EU, another corrupt ex-Russian country holding it's hand out for all it can get, while the rest of us are expected to pay for it.
Roof Top Crow
6th Apr 2016
-4
Thanks for voting!
I grew up in the 40s and 50s and started working in the 60s. A period which so many contributors seem to remember as being a wonderful time to live in Great Britain. I know how life was then and I know how life has become since we became a member of the European Community in 1973.
Up until the late 60s we were still recovering from WW2. Industrial smog was killing thousands every winter and polio and TB was common in children. The NHS was massively underfunded, the hospitals were mainly pre-war buildings and lacked investment, and the appalling state education system left thousands of children totally illiterate when they left school.
In the early 70s housing was still abysmal and thousands lived in privately owned slums. Wages were low and job security was almost totally absent. Manufacturing was a dark and dirty place being driven by old and tired technology, and being held back by the lack of investment. The City and financial sector was out of control with fraud, insider dealing and financial opportunism being standard practice.
In the early 70s the UK economy was in ruins and we were the poor man of Europe. Trade barriers were preventing us from trading with Europe and just about everywhere else in the world.
We joined the European Community in 1973 and during the past 43 years the smog, the slums and dirty manufacturing have all but gone and unemployment is at a record low. The NHS is achieving an extraordinary level of success, despite being underfunded. Education is geared towards the high tech and service industries, the industries that continue to create jobs and make the UK wealthy. The City and the financial sector has mostly been cleaned up.
And now in 2016 the UK is so wealthy we are facing an obesity epidemic, and we oldies are living so long that the NHS and the pension department cannot cope.
This has all happened during our period of EC and then EU membership. The principle of having common and shared interests has worked. The UK is part of the European social and business community. A sharing community that is politically stable, that trades without barriers and exchanges technology and skills without any restrictions. Working together we have become one of the biggest trading partnerships in the world.
Nothing is perfect and the EU is very far from perfect. But membership brings the UK political stability, barrier free trading, freedom to work and travel in the EU and much more. Carry on as we are and the forecast is that we will become the wealthiest country in EU membership.
latin
28th Apr 2016
2
Thanks for voting!
Enough stop trolling now for goodness sake!
wendydee
16th Apr 2016
3
Thanks for voting!
I was born right at the start of the 50s, grew up in the 60s and started work in the 70s. I don't remember life quite like the one you portray above. We were not a rich family, my father worked hard and didn't own a car until 1964. We didn't have holidays except when we went to stay with relatives. However, my friends had a good diet, because of the plentiful veg from markets and neighbours gardens, we didn't eat much meat and had loads of exercise, running around in a largely car-free environment. We had the NHS, free orange juice, Virol, cod liver oil, school dentists and teachers who took us on nature walks to learn about the environment. Life was more local. The education I had gave me a lifelong love of learning and the tools needed to express myself. There was a young lad with polio who wore calipers on our street and I don't remember any other health problems that my friends and family suffered. Yes, we did get smogs and the air wasn't always clean around the railway. Was this any different in Europe? I left school and benefited from free college education and accommodation and got a job when I needed one, both through college holidays and after leaving college. When I'd been married for three years we bought a house. We've had two houses, both of which made a profit. I consider myself part of one of the luckiest generations ever.
Has membership of the Common Market (that was all we voted for, I believe....) helped us? I don't know, really. Who's to say what life would have been like without it. It has, however, meant a freedom to travel, which is good for me but not for anyone wishing its citizens ill-will. It has meant some rather loony laws. I resent the amount that is spent on electing MEPs and their huge expenses, I resent the mechanics and expense of the burgeoning beaurocrocy that is the European Council and all its sub-sets and committees. I resent the fact that we cannot decide our own fate in our own country on some matters. So far, I'm fact finding and making up my mind. The outlandish Government Pamphlet has not helped, it has only annoyed me....what a waste of our money! So I'm willing to listen to all the arguments, for and against. My instincts are tending to 'leave'.
Roof Top Crow
4th Apr 2016
-3
Thanks for voting!
In the last week we can very clearly see how unimportant the UK is to China and we already know that India will walk away from our steel industry.
China.
if we leave the EU we will have to negotiate trade tariffs with China who think we are unimportant.
India.
If we leave the EU we will have to negotiate trade tariffs with India who are far more interested in the rest of Asia and China.
The EU.
If we leave the EU they have very clearly told us that there will be trade barriers and tariffs.
Speeednet
3rd Apr 2016
2
Thanks for voting!
I can understand how kins and folks up to their thirties and possibly forties could vote to stay in because they have never known any different, and are possibly buying into the scare stories that the remain mob are publishing on a daily basis with the help of the tabloids and BBC.

But those of us that have been around since it started realise that we have been lied to from day one, taken for total idiots and seen the so called "common market" morph into a juggernaut of a single entity run by unelected beauracrats that we have no power over, running every facet of our lives with no recourse.

The person that commented earlier about Germany running the show is spot on, my father said when we elected to join the common market that "twice by force of arms Germany have tried to take over the whole of Europe, this way they will do it without firing a shot".

He was it seems something of a prophet. The German people are also waking up and I would not be surprised at all to see a) Merkel booted out and b) Germany having their own in-out referendum.
latin
28th Apr 2016
0
Thanks for voting!
toulula
3rd Apr 2016
6
Thanks for voting!
We should come out
ozzie
2nd Apr 2016
9
Thanks for voting!
Can't wait to vote OUT in June. I think this is just another way of Germany trying to rule Europe and so many gave their lives to prevent this happening in both World Wars. It seems the only ones who wish to stay are businesses with European dealings or politicians on their own gravy train. We have always given more than we get back. Britain is no longer Great, there are food banks in most towns, the number of homeless is diabolical. Employment,Health, Prisons and Education have never been as bad since we joined the EU with all their rules. Those of us who remember pre EU remebr a Great Britain.
Munsterlander
3rd Apr 2016
0
Thanks for voting!
Germany is a very peaceful country and I dont think they are the slightest bit interested in ruling Europe. Whats the point of that?
latin
28th Apr 2016
1
Thanks for voting!
Money power and lastly control!
Its controlling now!
Trampas1955
16th Apr 2016
2
Thanks for voting!
I'm puzzled by certain aspects of the Irish Republics membership?
For 500 years they fought the British yet no sooner have they consolidated their independence than they give it away to the EU. It doesn't make sense. They've even given up their money for the Euro.
latin
28th Apr 2016
1
Thanks for voting!
How many times did the EU force them to vote?
It was all controlled by the EU and they are trying it with us!
anf
2nd Apr 2016
4
Thanks for voting!
would you join any organisation where no one is accountable for how it is run or what it costs? the money we pay could pay for all existing eu subsidies plus money over to finance nhs etc. it is just another layer of government which provides jobs for unelectable failures, ie the kinnocks.
Val Baldam
24th Mar 2016
-3
Thanks for voting!
We should stay in euro because we do a lot of medical research with other university and clinical centre which benefits people in England Wales Scotland & Ireland.
Without euro funding a lot of people in the medical and health professions would be unemployed, as they have their salary paid by the euro funding their research.
They will not be funded by this or government or any future government.
In the last seven years l and my partner would be unemployed and be claiming benefits and told we are scrounger having both be in work for the last 30 years.
So l advise you look at the bigger picture,
jeanmark
19th Apr 2016
-1
Thanks for voting!
I think the issue is much wider than medical research which is carried out and shared in a number of countries not just the EU.
Hattie
23rd Mar 2016
6
Thanks for voting!
I just which June was here get this over with, and am hoping it will be an OUT vote.
Watching the shambles of the EU, and having to watch the awful killers going round Europe slaughtering innocent people because no one is able to stop them, what on earth is EU there for? We need control of our own boarders.

Sad really, since joining EU, seems UK is unable to run it's own house, what did we do before joining and how better of are we being a member?
mermaid60
23rd Mar 2016
3
Thanks for voting!
In June 2015 Mrs Merkel tells a crying child who was being deported "GERMANY CAN'T TAKE EVREYONE", which at the time I thought was very heartless. Then less than 2 months later she has a monumental change of heart and throws open the doors to a biblical mass of migrants. She did this without consulting her party or other EU countries. I did wonder about her motives. Maybe it was the promise of something better and could that something be like taking Ban ki -moons place at the UN.
Roof Top Crow
23rd Mar 2016
0
Thanks for voting!
It was a decision based on economics and demographics.


She did it because of the major demographic problem facing Germany. Germany has an ageing and declining population. In parts of north of Germany schools are closing because there are no children left to teach

To make sure the factories and businesses have enough staff and enough people paying tax they need 1 million immigrants to join the workforce every year.

The U.K on the other hand has a growing population and a positive birth rate. Which is why we will become the strongest economy in Europe in the next 10 years.
latin
28th Apr 2016
1
Thanks for voting!
Who are these people giving birth?
Is it people with three wife's etc who have as many children as possible as their Holy book tells them to!

Most don't work and we pay for all these baby's .

Fancy saying to a nation whose infrastructure is falling apart due to mass immigration that it's a good thing the birth rate is going up,where do you envisage all the houses and mosques are going to go,I think your mind is so Europhile it blinds you to what is happening !
Birth rate up immigration up,heaven help us all!
Roof Top Crow
28th Apr 2016
0
Thanks for voting!
It was Germany I was talking about, not the UK.

Germany has an ageing and declining population. In parts of the north of Germany schools are closing because there are no children left to teach. The hospitals are busy but primarily with old people and they are struggling to find enough staff to work in the hospitals.

Germany has to make sure the offices and factories have enough staff to work in them. The workers in the offices and factories pay tax as do the businesses. The German government needs this tax to keep running the country.

For many years Germany has had a declining birth-rate and that means not enough people in the workforce

So now Germany needs 1 million people to come to Germany every year. People that will get married, have children, get educated and join the workforce.

If that does not happen the German economy will slow down and they will stop being a strong and productive country.
latin
28th Apr 2016
0
Thanks for voting!
You said the UK had a positive birth rate and a growing population ,that wasn't about Germany that was about our breaking country!
jeanmark
28th Apr 2016
-1
Thanks for voting!
And you accuse other people of trolling?
latin
28th Apr 2016
0
Thanks for voting!
PsyaNyde
5th Apr 2016
5
Thanks for voting!
And if we stay in the EU, in a few years time ALL those migrants will get an EU passport and any number of those millions CAN freely migrate to this country and there's not a thing we can do about it ...VOTE OUT!! Secure our borders and ensure there's jobs, housing and a working health service for your children and their children.
jeanmark
19th Apr 2016
-4
Thanks for voting!
You may find without those migrants we won't have an NHS.....
Roof Top Crow
5th Apr 2016
-3
Thanks for voting!
Those immigrants will put down roots in Germany. They will have families and children and well paid jobs. Germany is a good place to live. It is modern, clean and with a very good health service and a very good educational system.
Why would they want to come to the UK.

.
Migration is a two way process. If we close our borders we will also stop our young people from going overseas to work.
jellyducks
19th Mar 2016
10
Thanks for voting!
When we joined we joined the common market not a European State that has now robbed us of every decision making body we had including our weak and lying government.
If we stay in we will have to take in tens of thousands so called refugees and migrants that as a small island nation we cannot afford!Our NHS is being sold off in back handed deals and this government is making it appear to be so badly run that the best thing would be to privatise it.If we took in more people then the NHS would go into meltdown.Funding for all emergency services has been cut to disastrous levels so how can we expect the police , fire ,ambulance and border control people to cope.
Don't be fooled byDavid Camerfools project fear we would be a better country looking after ourselves not paying billions of pounds to a corrupt group of faceless people in Brussells.
Roof Top Crow
20th Mar 2016
-3
Thanks for voting!
I do not understand the link you are making between the EU and the underfunding of the NHS and the reduction in funding to the police, fire and ambulance services. Those decisions have been made by the current Conservative government they had nothing to do with the EU.
latin
28th Apr 2016
1
Thanks for voting!
Every penny of out tax money given to the corrupt EU is money we could plough back in our own infrastructure !
That is the link ,we don't want Merkel and Co dishing out our hard earnt money to her pet projects and to line her and her chums pockets!
What is hard to understand about that?
Roof Top Crow
22nd Mar 2016
0
Thanks for voting!
I received a negative tick on my reply to jelly ducks. I cannot know who owns the negative tick. But can anyone tell me why my simple statement was wrong.

The decision to cut funding to the NHS, the police, the fire service and the ambulance service was taken by this current Conservative government and had nothing to do with the EU.

My question does not indicate pro or anti EU it was just a statement of fact.

Why the negative tick?
latin
28th Apr 2016
2
Thanks for voting!
If we stopped funding the EU we would not have to keep suffering major cuts ,that money we give Merkel and Co is paid out of our pockets to be spent on things that benefit US AS A NATION!

Who asked us if we wanted Merkel and Co to be kept afloat with our hard earnt cash?

Turkey is being allowed to join soon ,watch the NHS sink even faster then.

They come here out of choice for our generous benefits housing and jobs if they are so inclined .
And they can practice their religion unhindered !

You could not make it up could you!
jeanmark
19th Apr 2016
2
Thanks for voting!
I think you will find its because most people have no idea how public services are funded. Having worked in the NHS for over 45 years I didn't find being in the EU negative to the service, if anything migrants helps it to keep going.
latin
28th Apr 2016
1
Thanks for voting!
What tosh.Come and ask our hospitals schools and GP surgerys if they agree with you?
Eloheh
19th Mar 2016
10
Thanks for voting!
I remember a time when we did just fine on our own and we weren't governed by Brussels. Once Britain was great all by itself. We had a national pride.
jeanmark
20th Apr 2016
-1
Thanks for voting!
Once Britain was great because we had an empire - that means we ruled other countries because we thought we were superior. Fortunately we moved on and change happened.

We still have a national pride as do a number of other EU countries the EU can not take that away from us.

A number of comments keep referring to how well we were before entering the common market. Well, 43 years ago I was in my twenties, slim and wrinkle free but as I became older things changed and I moved with the changes. That's how I feel about the EU, we can't turn the clock back whether we leave the EU (renamed as things changed) or stay in the EU we will never be as we were 43 years ago.
banjo
18th Mar 2016
11
Thanks for voting!
we should be able to administer our own courts & what punishment is administered be carried out & not be subjected to European laws.
Grannieannie1
10th Mar 2016
14
Thanks for voting!
We are more than capable of surviving outside the EU. It was supposed to be a trade agreement I didn't sign up to have my country ruled by someone I haven't voted for
Jonathan Hastings
3rd Apr 2016
2
Thanks for voting!
Firstly, the UK is not "ruled" by the EU. Secondly, three quarters of the electorate of this country is being governed by someone they didn't vote for in David Cameron
Wilf
10th Mar 2016
-3
Thanks for voting!
Yes but think its grown to more than that with laws etc. It does mean that there is freedom of workers including those from the UK to work anywhere in Europe.
John Digby
14th Mar 2016
-2
Thanks for voting!
What is your point Wilf? British people with skills leave our country after being educated for free and don't support the UK with taxes paid on their salaries. How is that a good thing? However, if we are not in the EU it does not preclude anyone emigrating to an EU country to work, as long as they have the required skills to do so.
latin
28th Apr 2016
2
Thanks for voting!
Well said John ,you have it in one!
Every single thing the in Europhiles say is something to scare people!
Not once do they build on our strengths it's just negative negative negative.
How they could run their country down is beyond me!
Wilf
15th Mar 2016
-2
Thanks for voting!
John the point is we are in a globalised world now and all interdependent on each other-China has a cough economically and we all suffer. People are working all over the world and my point is its simple for a Brit to work in Europe and VV as we have hundreds of thousands of French working here for example. My worry if we leave is we will not be part of the largest global trading bloc...why would we want top leave that?
John Digby
15th Mar 2016
4
Thanks for voting!
Thanks for the reply Wilf. However, those determined to go and work for the benefit of another country will still be able to do so. Before the advent of the EU, many people lived and worked in places other than their country of birth. The whole point is we do not want to be governed by an unelected commission that we cannot challenge. By leaving the EU we will be, once again, governed by a democratically elected parliament that we can de-select if they don't come up to our high standards of leadership. This will not be the position if we remain shackled to the EU commission.
Hattie
9th Mar 2016
3
Thanks for voting!
Watching and listening, seems to me EU is in a complete shambles. All they can come up with is to chuck billions of euro at which ever country will sort out the immigration crisis for them.
Apart from all the other issues the OUT voters on here voice my main rant is the HR rubbish.

I just cannot get my head round why?? EU/Brussels or whoever seems it's ok for evil criminals to have the HR to wander our streets, what this does to victims and their families must be devastating.

I would like one of the 'do good brigade' to come on here tell us they would be ok with an evil criminal who wrecked their lives to live in their community.

I don't want EU making our laws.
latin
28th Apr 2016
0
Thanks for voting!
Well said John and Hattie.
Roof Top Crow
8th Mar 2016
-4
Thanks for voting!
The problem with leaving the EU and the Snake oil solution.
The Americans have an expression, Snake oil. Snake oil is an expression used when the promises being made on bottles, packets and in documents cannot be verified.
Snake oil is a problem for the “outers”. They have said that all of our problems will go away if we leave the EU. They tell us that we should tick just tick the out box on June 23, and then all of our problems will go away. From then onward they will make life in the UK better for all of us.
But the “outers” cannot tell us how they will make this happen.
They cannot tell us how our economy will improve, how they will help us resolve the problem of mass migration into Europe, how they will manage immigration into the UK, how they will improve the NHS, education, housing, social services, and transport or for that matter how they will improve anything else. They have told us nothing.
Until the “outers” tell us exactly, and with detailed plans, how everything will be better if we leave the EU, then the “outers” plans to leave the EU falls into the Snake oil category.
jeanmark
20th Apr 2016
0
Thanks for voting!
Speeednet
15th Mar 2016
7
Thanks for voting!
Our reserves will be better off to the tune of £55m per day, how's that for a start? As a nation we did OK for centuries before the EU, I guess we could muddle our way through now.
Roof Top Crow
15th Mar 2016
-8
Thanks for voting!
We get back over £35 million a day in grants to farmers, and other things.It varies a bit but the real figure is around £17 million a day. Not sure you are serious when you talk about being able to muddle our way through. Whilst being members of the EU we have become the 6th richest country in the world.
Speeednet
16th Mar 2016
4
Thanks for voting!
You are obviously an EU plant so there is no point in debating with you.You say we get £35m back, wow that's generous of them so they are only keeping £20m of our money (per day) that could be spent on homeless, the aged and the sick. They should not get one more penny from us until they get the fraud and waste under control, jail all of those guilty and get their accounts signed off by a competent firm of auditors.
Wilf
17th Mar 2016
0
Thanks for voting!
EU plant sounds a bit strange. Just because someone wants to stay in the EU just means they have an opinion different to you. I think we should stay in as well. To leave could be economically risky & our economy is shaky at the moment as Osbourne said yesterday at the budget speech
Roof Top Crow
16th Mar 2016
1
Thanks for voting!
Not sure what you mean by EU plant. I retired a while ago and I have no political contacts. My view on the EU has no doubt been influenced by working in an international industry for 40 years. The business primarily traded with all the EU countries.

In the late nineties we started to trade with the USA and some of the Asian countries. We stopped after a couple of years, we could not cope with the paperwork that was generated in customs declarations, import surcharges, tax declarations overseas etc. Trading with the USA was the worst.

Daily revenue in the UK is circa Two Billion pounds sterling a day. Twenty million pounds sterling is small change to the Treasury.
mermaid60
7th Mar 2016
2
Thanks for voting!
I would like to why the EU never publish any accounts. Also how can it afford to pay such ridiculously large pensions to former employees. Chris Patton worked there for 45 months and he will collect a £100000 per year.
mermaid60
7th Mar 2016
6
Thanks for voting!
Silly me! I know how they can afford it. I don't have a pension for another 5 years. It's a good job I am self employed and am able to carry on working.
Roof Top Crow
7th Mar 2016
-3
Thanks for voting!
There has been a lot of comment regarding “unelected law makers in Brussels”
There are 751 elected Euro MEPs including 73 from the UK. We voted for and appointed those 73 MEPs. They did not elect themselves.
Along with the other MEPs in Brussels the 73 elected members from the UK discuss and vote for the rules and regulations.
It is not the administrators in Brussels or the faceless civil servants in Brussels who decide on the laws and changes it is the MEPs.

It is very different in the UK.
In the UK we have 650 elected MPs in the House of Commons.

In the House of Lords there are 760 non-elected members.
These non-elected members who get paid to sit in the House of Lords can and do reject the laws and changes that the elected MPs have voted for in the House of Commons.
You may re call the drama that ensued in October 2015 when the House of Lords blocked the tax credit changes put forward by George Osborne.
mermaid60
7th Mar 2016
11
Thanks for voting!
I shall be voting out, because the thought of staying in terrifies me. I am so tired of the dictators in Brussels who find it so easy to pass stupid rules and regulations without any real thought of the consequences. Who opened their borders allowing a biblical flood of migrants which they can't control and still have no solution to. Governments are covering up crime figures caused by migrants. It is very sinister when the government want to control the news media. The BBC a case in point. The BBC should never have been allowed funding from the EU.
And how can our government afford to pay for migrants to stay in hotels and yet it stops benefits to long term serious ill people who have paid into the system.
Hidge
22nd Mar 2016
6
Thanks for voting!
I agree with you wholeheartedly mermaid60. I am tired also of being dictated to by Brussels. As you say, there are so many people born here who have paid into the system and why should we support those immigrants when some of our own are living on the streets.
Roof Top Crow
7th Mar 2016
-5
Thanks for voting!
I am not sure that I understand the meaning of Sovereignty, and because of that I am not sure what it is that we have lost by being EU members.
Every country I have visited in the EU and in the rest of the world (I was in the travel industry before I retired) have and still have their own traditions and history, just as we have.
What is this Sovereignty that the “Leave” campaign tell us we will lose more of if we stay in the EU. ?
latin
28th Apr 2016
0
Thanks for voting!
Can I suggest you look the word up.
Also how many country's had open borders putting their peoples lives at grave risk ,how many didn't check your paperwork.
If you go to Barbados they want to know where you are staying how long ,departure date ,plane number ,passport checked and it takes ages but very very thorough !

Just like us Not!

We are all at risk.

Don't tell me it was like that when you were young ,we had very good airport Ferry security ,but we can't have it now as our borders are now pourous and we can't control the amount .
The EU has brought us to the point of needing armed officers in airports ,and don't say it's not because of stupid EU open borders !
Trampas1955
10th Mar 2016
6
Thanks for voting!
Sovereignty are the structures and history and culture of a particular people's or country. When British people talk of sovereignty they mean the monarchy, the English language, sterling, driving on the left hand side of the road etc etc. Some issues will obviously have a greater importance to some people than others. Sovereignty are the things that make us unique from others.
John Walsh
6th Mar 2016
5
Thanks for voting!
I've been on holiday recently to Bulgaria and Croatia and work with Poles and Romanians and the thing is with all of them, they are very enthusiastic about the EU and want to take it further. They don't want wars and until recently were ruled from Russia. They don't want to go back to that. They don't really understand sovereignty like we do and they're looking for a federal Europe. I think that's right for them but definitely not for us. We are an island with our own traditions etc. We will never be comfortable if we stay. That's the secret. What are we most happy with?
latin
28th Apr 2016
1
Thanks for voting!
They understand Christianity and are refusing entry to Muslims to their country ,also Hungary,they wish to remain Christian.
Also I mix with poles and they are more for Brexit than myself.

The Poles you worked with probably are in receipt of our family allowance . Or Poles here are sending money home,why would they not want to stay when the EU is building their infrastructures.
They want the best pieces from the EU (money ) but reject taking mass immigration .
We stupidly pay huge amounts to be members ,take millions of immigrants ,house them support their religion ,feed cloth benefits health care and education and in return get hardly anything back from the EU.Take note our prisons are full and many are from outside the EU!
Look at the state of our roads and all other infrastructures!
What fools we are to have allowed corrupt politicians to do this to such a fine nation!
John Digby
14th Mar 2016
2
Thanks for voting!
The Eastern European countries that joined the EU in 2004 were ex communist states and had nothing to offer the EU except a low paid workforce. That however was not fully thought through as it was surmised that those countries would raise themselves to the average of the richer countries. What, in fact happened, is that their low paid workforce migrated across to the richer north- western states and lowered the wages of the host countries.
There are 9 nett contributers in terms of money supporting the remaining 19 countries that are net receivers of EU funds. It just happens that the UK is the second largest contributer and has seen our own monetary worth diminish, now being propped up with huge loans arranged by successive British governments.
petesline9
6th Mar 2016
10
Thanks for voting!
I see it like this we had 2 world wars to keep our
Country safe
What was all that about when we open our borders
To suck up to the have-nots of Europe !!
And we are now being told that we have to put up or shut up
We have have had a certain labour politician who held
Office for a time before he was seen as being incompetent ,
Then a certain person claims a lot of money for
Attending after dinner speeches ,
Everything this man has ever done has been for money!!
The way I see it now is what ever we get we deserve !
My grandfather & father fought in those wars
And It's a crying shame that a lot of good British
men & women died In those fights
For what ! For nothing that's what :(((
jeanmark
10th Mar 2016
-4
Thanks for voting!
I think the clue is in World War, we were lucky in as much as we were not invaded (the Channel Islands were not so lucky) and many europeans died in trying to defend their country not just Great Britain. Why do people keep raising 'the war' as a reason to leave the EU, doesn't make sense?
Dilwyn
5th Mar 2016
5
Thanks for voting!
We were initially deceived by believing it was a trading agreement. Politicians and the establishment have gradually changed this agreement to what we now experience. Ruled from Brussels by unelected Eurocrats [who do not pay tax]. The European Court of human Rights need l say any more!!! Our culture and way of life is being eroded. Remember New Labour? Robin Cook said there is no such thing as Britishness. we have a different way of life to people on the continent. It is being changed by politicians both in this country and the EU for political benefit, not ours. The shambolic reaction by the EU leaders is beyond comprehension. They do not know what has hit them or how to deal with it. They are out of their comfort zone. Most have no idea of Islamic society and by how much it differs to ours. they do not understand the power of the Koran and its adherents. We are not of Europe as such we are on island race with our own identity and culture. I do not wish this to change.
latin
28th Apr 2016
0
Thanks for voting!
A spot on comment,out of their depth is right !
jeanmark
10th Mar 2016
-2
Thanks for voting!
It may surprise you to know a number of British people follow the Koran so what has that got to do with staying in or leaving the EU?
Jazzbaby
5th Mar 2016
5
Thanks for voting!
I think we should leave, is a there at the first ballot and voted not to join then, my views haven't changed in all these years, we are not joined to Europe nor are we European no matter what jumped up politician says, we are an island race and should make the most of that fact by being our own boss and not ruled by unelected beaurocrats
maureen19
4th Mar 2016
-1
Thanks for voting!
still undecided I believe that after the vote [especially if close] if the INFORMATION is not fair and open for IN or OUT the arguments will go on for ever
Roof Top Crow
4th Mar 2016
-3
Thanks for voting!
Export to the EU and import from the EU.
The December 2015 figures were published by HM Customs on 9th February 2016
Export to the EU £10.4 Billion
Import from the EU £17.00 Billion

Since the UK population represents approximately 12% of the population of the EU I am not sure if these are good or bad figures.
winky
3rd Mar 2016
3
Thanks for voting!
I am really enjoying this debate I would like to add this and by the way they are government figures:::

The trade deficit between us and Europe is quite frightening and that's we export to euro £20 billion of goods.....

They export to Britain over nearly £ 300 billion of goods now I say I am not good at maths but that's a truly bad deficit so I ask WHO NEEDS WHO????????????
Roof Top Crow
17th Mar 2016
-1
Thanks for voting!
I do not think it should be seen as a competition.

We need all of the EU countries as a destination for our exports and places to sell our service industry products.
In reverse the U.K is a destination for the products we do not make in the UK but are made in other EU countries.

The service sector is different. In the UK we use very few services that originate in other EU countries. The U.K leads Europe in technology, IT, Banking, Film and Media and much more.
latin
28th Apr 2016
0
Thanks for voting!
Don't ignore the fact that those figures make wonderful bargaining tools!
Muffy Jay
2nd Mar 2016
1
Thanks for voting!
No, I think we should leave the EU. However at my age should I vote. I have right to vote but the effect may be a long way down the line and have profound consequence for my grandchildren long after I've gone. At my age my prejudices should not be allowed to map their future. Most young people want to stay in Europe
latin
28th Apr 2016
0
Thanks for voting!
You grandchildren may be more cross if you give their country away .
Young people who go to University have indoctrination from Uni Unions and left wing Tutors .
The literature being placed and sent to the students from the EU is nothing but sheer properganda !
Shamefull .
It's like going to a Madrasser where they are banged full of the Koran!

We must leave as we are breaking up from sheer weight of numbers of immigrants coming here and the people of the EU are rising up.

We must do it for our Grandchildren as we can't have more of the same!
captain nemo
2nd Mar 2016
7
Thanks for voting!
the eu is an unelected dictatorship (the eu commission pull the strings of the so-called eu parliament which is nothing more than a talk-shop for the politicos...to keep them quiet with generous no-strings expenses) great for the multinationals since the taxpayers fork out the £55m per day membership costs, which they then repay by not paying corporation tax and squirrelling the profits in the cayman islands. Did you know the average US state now has more executive power than HM government, since so much has been given away to brussells? Vote for Independence Day on 23rd June. BTW, with the eu gone we get to keep feet pounds and fahrenheit, for those of us over 50's who wish to use them, instead of being locked up
HEAPUS
2nd Mar 2016
3
Thanks for voting!
So happy that we ONLY contribute £16.43 million a day to the E.U.
JohnHerb
2nd Mar 2016
-4
Thanks for voting!
I think it has helped-look at our farmers and the subsidies they get which is a great thing
winky
3rd Mar 2016
5
Thanks for voting!
yes johnherb what you say may be true ,but I say to you is this instead of having to give brussels £ 55 million a day on our own we will be able to pay our people ourselves finally do you know of any club where you have to pay annually £ 20 billion just to be a member plus it increase yearly???????????????????
Lovelylizzy
2nd Mar 2016
2
Thanks for voting!
Last week there was an article in the Express saying farmers would be 2 billion reuos a year better off if we left the EU. Not my area of expertise, but may be worth researching?
Roof Top Crow
4th Mar 2016
-1
Thanks for voting!
Daily Express. Feb 24.
The article is based on a speech made by Farming Minister George Eustice MP.
Mr Eustice MP said in his speech at the NFU annual conference that our EU membership costs £18 Billion a year. In fact it costs £7.1 Billion a year.
Mr Eustice then goes on to say that it would be easy to find the £2 Billion a year from £18 Billion a year.
Not much to say really accept that as a Minister of State he should at the very least use accurate figures.
JohnHerb
2nd Mar 2016
3
Thanks for voting!
I totally agree. The government should put an impartial website up with pros and cons of leaving. How can that be difficult???
latin
28th Apr 2016
1
Thanks for voting!
Simple ,do you really trust Cameron and Co to tell the truth after the Downing Street properganda machine has pumped out a daily lie broadcast !
I for one don't want to hear from Tory's properganda machine ,do your own research on what is now happening in the EU ,read English versions of EU country's papers .
See how the Far Right is coming up and all the marches taking place in Germany!
Finally do you want 70,000 Turks coming here anytime very soon ,and are you prepared to be a minority in your own country ,if you don't believe me travel around our country and open your ears!
Even my Polish friends want out,they tell me it's a Communist takeover!
They should know.
John Digby
4th Mar 2016
3
Thanks for voting!
It is difficult, John Herb, because our government are run by the EU and the EU have a ruke that says "Member countries must not criticise the EU Parliament"
Their hands are tied and their mouths gagged by the very people that need criticising.
jeanmark
5th Mar 2016
-1
Thanks for voting!
I read JohnHerb as suggesting an impartial website with pros and cons. That isn't criticism but a means of trying to give people a better understanding of the issues. So far I haven't really seen a balanced argument for me to make an informed choice.
latin
28th Apr 2016
0
Thanks for voting!
Research it's all on the Internet .
jeanmark
2nd Mar 2016
1
Thanks for voting!
If politicians from both sides of the argument and supposedly in the know can't explain the true issues, how can we make an informed choice?
Roof Top Crow
2nd Mar 2016
-2
Thanks for voting!
Lies, Damned Lies and Statistics.
It has been attributed to many people, it was probably Sir Charles Dike in around 1885.
Whatever, it most certainly applies to the campaigns being run by the “inners” and “outers”
Let’s start with the biggest whopper of the lot. We pay £55 million a day to the EU.
Multiply £55 million by 365 days and the figure is £20.07 Billion.

The correct figures for 2015 was as follows.
We contributed £17.4 Billion to the EU in 2015 and we got back £11.5 Billion from the EU in 2015.
So we contributed to the EU in 2015 a total of £5.9 Billion.
That is a lot of noughts to calculate so I will call it £6 Billion.
There are 365 days in a year.
£6 Billion divided by 365 days in a year is £16.43 million a day and not £55 million a day.
latin
28th Apr 2016
1
Thanks for voting!
It always comes out smelling of roses dosent it Roof Top Crow.
John Digby
4th Mar 2016
1
Thanks for voting!
I beg to differ Roof Top Crow, but the figure for 2015 is stated at £8.9 bn nett and that is a goverment ESTIMATED figure. In 2014 it was £10.4 bn so I cannot see it being, in reality, as low as £8.9 bn.
Roof Top Crow
4th Mar 2016
-2
Thanks for voting!
Maybe we are both wrong.
The latest figure from: HM Treasury, European Union Finances 2015.
UK paid in £17.8 Billion
We got back £10.7 Billion
The result of this back and forth is £7.1 Billion
John Digby
2nd Mar 2016
4
Thanks for voting!
The EU is part of the most diverse continent on the Planet. It is divided by its languages.

Bulgarian, Croatian, Czech, Danish, Dutch, English, Estonian,
Finnish, French, German, Greek, Hungarian, Irish, Italian
Latvian, Lithuanian, Maltese, Polish, Portuguese, Romanian
Slovak, Slovenian, Spanish, Swedish
This is not a Union its a diversity and it is trying to be Federal Dictatorship.
Roof Top Crow
1st Mar 2016
-1
Thanks for voting!
Legislation from Brussels.
I have been trying to find some examples of the legislation that come out of Brussels that has not benefited the UK.

Can someone please give me some details please.
John Digby
2nd Mar 2016
5
Thanks for voting!
1. Free, unfettered immigration into the UK driving down UK wages and putting strains on infrastructure ( NHS, housing, benefits).
2. EU human rights laws that mean we cannot deport convicted EU criminals and their families.
3. EU workers in the UK can send Child Benefit at the UK rate back to their country of origin and the UK government have no say over this. UK benefits about 400% higher than Poland's costing about £1million per week. (Figures from http://www.migrationwatchuk.org/briefing-paper/288
4. EU "Green" taxes add around 15% to household and industrial energy bills (BBC figures)
Roof Top Crow
2nd Mar 2016
-3
Thanks for voting!
Free unfettered immigration into the UK.
In some areas of the UK the agricultural businesses could not survive without EU immigrants being prepared to work on the land. Inevitably those workers come with families and that puts huge pressure on the NHS, education and housing in those areas.
I suppose that means we get cheap food but it puts a lot of pressure on our infrastructure.

EU human rights laws.
It works both ways. I cannot find the information I was looking for but there are a lot of British citizens in EU prisons that cannot be sent back to the UK.

Information from migrationwatchuk.org.
They have their own objectives and you may have seen what I said earlier today about statistics from groups with political objectives. Lies, damned lies and statistics.

EU Green Taxes.
I found the article you referred to. It was as you say published by the BBC in 2013. The concept behind this tax was to use the money to develop ways of reducing air and water pollution.
Three years later it looks as though the tax will be scrapped. On top of that oil and gas prices have crashed and end user energy prices are going down. I have no idea what this all means for the UK government’s environmental policies.
John Digby
3rd Mar 2016
3
Thanks for voting!
1. If we were to retain the £55 million pr day that we send to the EU, we could afford to pay our farmers the going rate for their goods.

2. Your point is lost if you cannot back up your statement. I did not suggest deportation before custodial sentences are completed but subsequent deportation in both directions would be acceptable.

3. So, it seems, do you have your own objective. These are published figures that you choose to refute, again with no back-up. Much like the current scare stories the PM is condoning.
Come clean and tell us what your objective for remaining is.

4. Granted what you say about oil and gas prices falling is correct but there is still a 15% EU tax on the bills. You have no idea what this all means for the UK government's environmental policies because the UK government don't have any environmental policies, they just reflect what the EU instruct them to do.
What these policies have done is to force companies to use countries outside the EU for manufacturing where there is no EU tax on energy and these mainly African manufacturing plants are not regulated and produce more pollutants than ever. We still pay the tax but we gain nothing from being able to manufacture goods in the UK and world gains nothing in reduced pollution. Only the EU gain from imposing a 15% tax on our energy bills.
Wilf
1st Mar 2016
-4
Thanks for voting!
I think the problem is we are going into the unknown outside the EU. If we are ok economically now (worlds 5th largest economy) why would you want to risk all that?
latin
28th Apr 2016
0
Thanks for voting!
We are going into the unknown staying in now that most EU country's are rising up ,it will all disintegrate.
captain nemo
2nd Mar 2016
6
Thanks for voting!
Somehow we managed to govern ourselves before 1974 for a thousand years . How is that unknown? And risk all what? We have the whip hand on the new trade agreement, because if the eu doesn't sign up to OUR terms then German car makers start going bust within a month. it won't be a walkover like the eu did to poor Iceland and Norway....since we're (as you say) the world's 5th largest economy. The eu will have to be VERY nice to us...or we walk away. We've £55m per day to sort out problems for our exporters, but the eu's in deep trouble. NB If we stay in, they'll bleed us dry. Vote for Independence Day on 23rd June
Lovelylizzy
2nd Mar 2016
3
Thanks for voting!
To understand the EU agenda, check out:
Kalergi plan europe refugees
Frankfurt school 11point plan
Cloward piven europe

You might also want to watch John Cleese as you have never seen him before:

The End Game:Full White Genocide

http://www.thetruthseeker.co.uk/?p=128979
John Digby
2nd Mar 2016
5
Thanks for voting!
With Turkey poised to join the EU, a further 75 million EU citizens will have the right to migrate to the UK. We may be economically OK at present but that does not mean the situation will continue. Our infrastructure is on the point of being overwhelmed already. Our national debt is currently spiralling due to George Osborne borrowing at an unprecedented rate.
If we remain in the EU, all those immigrants currently flooding mainland Europe will gain EU citizenship and be allowed, if not encouraged, to migrate to any EU country they choose. From recent history, that will be the UK.
crazyhorse
2nd Mar 2016
7
Thanks for voting!
The in campaign bang on about leaving the EU as a leap in the dark, I suggest it's the other way round, we have no idea what the EU will be like in six months time, let alone in years to come. David Cameron says he has brought back a good deal for Britain, it will be savaged by Brussels within a matter of months. As far as I am concerned all the scaremongering from the stay in campaign is just that. Most people on this site will have had family members who did their bit, and in many cases their all,in past conflicts for this great country, and the in campaign wants to belittle their sacrifice by handing over our sovereignty to egotistical, self serving, unelected beaurocrats, that love the sound of their own voices, and not the voices of the people they are meant to serve. Many countries in Europe are watching us, and if we leave, many will follow, and the whole corrupt house of cards will fall. I want this country to be free and independent,and, not shackled like slaves to Brussels
JohnHerb
2nd Mar 2016
-7
Thanks for voting!
yes but EU is worlds largest trading bloc-better in than out
Peter1947
1st Mar 2016
7
Thanks for voting!
Reading an article in to-days Daily Mail concerning "Project Fear" or Project Fact as Cameron would have us believe has unravalled the "facts" which have been exposed as gross exaggeration,designed no doubt to frighten what he obviously thinks are the feeble minded public. Well,I've got news for Cameron he isn't frightening us as he gets more desperate each day. He would do well to take heed of Nicola Sturgeons advice not to rely on fear tactics as it cost her party the Scottish referendum to the No camp.
JohnHerb
2nd Mar 2016
-4
Thanks for voting!
Yes but if Scotland had of left the UK it would have been a disaster as oil was central part of the budget and look at what's happened to oil prices. Better to be in the EU with 3 of the worlds largest economies-Germany, France, Italy
John Digby
4th Mar 2016
2
Thanks for voting!
Nicola Sturgeon wants the UK to vote to remain in the EU for her own reasons. However, she is also making threats to again call for a devolution referendum between the UK and Scotland. What she does not seem to consider is that Scotland is unlikely to be allowed to join the EU as they have little to offer, the majority of Scotland's oil platforms are currently mothballed.
Subsequent to Scottish Independence, most of their economy would rely on tourism and on the UK's defence industry which is likely to be relocated to England.
petesline9
1st Mar 2016
6
Thanks for voting!
I guess it's like you say that David Cameron
Is locked in a battle of over-kill for the unaware
Proportion of our country,
I believe that the only choice we may have is to
Leave the eu ASAP
Though after taking note with what is happening on the
Continent it could well be to late
At least when adolf hitler was knocking on our door
We had sea' between us ,
The thought of my country in 5 years time is very worrying ..
Tinka
1st Mar 2016
7
Thanks for voting!
I cannot believe that we are sitting back and accepting that we give 55 million pounds A DAY to the EU and get so little back for our needs. Why? Does our government want to look like the big benefactor while turning their backs on our NHS and homeless here. It's time to stop and look after our own. All this talk of taking in thousands of children to be fostered, how, with whom, a member of my family is a foster carer and the system can't cope with our children needing care let alone taking in more. I'm fed up with the EU telling us what to say and do, what to buy and how to govern our own country. I'm just so glad that many of the people who fought in either of the two world wars are no longer here to see what a joke Britain has become and how their friends and family fought and died for nothing.
As I look at all the abuse and violence among the "refuges" to people of authority and the shameful way they discard their waste by just dropping/leaving it on the ground and wonder can anyone quite honestly say that's what they want in the UK. I know I don't.
So Cameron face facts you got no concessions worth having, so lets all join together, come out of the EU and become GREAT BRITAIN again.
JohnHerb
2nd Mar 2016
2
Thanks for voting!
It will always be Great Britain whether we are in or out. 5th largest economy in the world and probably the greatest "soft power" country in the world for culture alongside the USA
Lovelylizzy
2nd Mar 2016
3
Thanks for voting!
The migrant situation has been deliberately created...

google: kalergi plan europe refugees

Here's an example just for dentistry in Germany

http://www.breitbart.com/london/2016/01/26/dentist-association-warns-treating-migrants-terrible-teeth-will-cost-taxpayer-billions/

Now imagine that cost on our NHS - and that's just for teeth.

Cameron, George and co are all aware of this - who are they serving? Not the British people.
Roof Top Crow
29th Feb 2016
0
Thanks for voting!
I just sent a reply to Scandiman and made a mistake. The correct figures are as follows.

In 2015 we contributed £17.4 billion pounds to the EU.
In 2015 we got back the following from the EU.
£4.9 billion as part of the Thatcher agreement.
£4.4 billion for regional grants and agricultural subsidies.
£1.4 billion in grants to UK businesses.
£0.8 billion in a complex return of the aid we give overseas.

So we got back from the EU somewhere around £11.5 billion pounds in 2015.

in 2015 our exports to the EU were £230 billion. So to trade with the EU, who are our largest trading partner we pay a 3% tariff.

Hope that helps.

NB
The UK economy. The overall government spend in 2015 was in the region of £750 billion.
winky
3rd Mar 2016
1
Thanks for voting!
what ever you say or cut tell me why should we give them our own money so they can turn round and say we will give you a bit back!!!! nonsense, I agree figures can be made to show any thing but I am a republican but do admire our parliament and I am upset at the vast amount of ruling ourselves is being eroded.
crazyhorse
2nd Mar 2016
4
Thanks for voting!
The only money we get back is our own, and what we don't get back is what the EU gives to prop up failing countries within the EU, plenty of wriggle room for a bit of corruption, that's why their accounts haven't been audited for twenty odd years, if they had been, there would quite a few of them sitting behind bars now
scandiman
29th Feb 2016
8
Thanks for voting!
If we vote to remain in EU, we will succeed where Hitler and Napoleon failed. We will become part of a European federal state dominated by Germany and France. We will not be in EU at the top table, playing our part and influencing decisions, as Cameron says. We will do as we are told, as we have done for 40 years. If we stay in, all the sacrifice of our forebears was pointless. We have rolled over and given in without so much as a whimper. Cameron and Corbyn have no right to be at the Cenotaph in November. Their behaviour disgraces the memory of the Fallen. This is my last post about EU. I am sick of hearing about it.
roverT33
29th Feb 2016
6
Thanks for voting!
David Cameron did not come back with a deal. He actually came back with nothing. It is only a Proposal and against the constitution of the EU. After the Referendum is over it will go to the EU Court and they will say "It's against the EU Constitution. And the Human Rights of the Migrants". There will be no changes within the EU. It will just head where it has always been heading. It will be just like it was in Ireland. Vote Out will not be the right vote that the EU want. And the Vote we have to be done again. It was the third time in Ireland before the EU had the result It wanted. Take the Greeks as the latest example. The Greek Government was Voted in because It promised to get them out of the EU. Alexis Tsipras of left-wing Greek political party Syriza. Went to Brussels and came back with a very worried look on his face. And Greece was forced to take a third bail out. Germany are now the owners of Greek Airports. And they still owe the EU the Money....
Jeff.C
28th Feb 2016
5
Thanks for voting!
First we have to stop the drain on our finances caused by membership of the EU ... so get us out.
Then as a country we need to reform the whole political system to get rid of basically this tory government who seem hell bent of destroying anything good which is left in the UK.
After that we need to take back control of all of our services previously sold of by thatcher, gas, water, electricity, public transport.etc. All need to be back under the control of British people for the use of British people.
We need to re-start a new "Buy British" campaing and make sure that this is followed byu business as well. That way we can regenerate things like our UK steel industry.
JohnHerb
2nd Mar 2016
2
Thanks for voting!
I agree with your comment like "Buy British"-absolutly we should do this. Regarding steel how can we compete when UK produces 11 million tons of steel per annum (same as Japan in 1940) while China produces 770 million tons pa.
John Digby
2nd Mar 2016
2
Thanks for voting!
Why Corbyn? Vote UKIP and get a government that actually believes in Britain. Labour are a spent force, dominated by non-British councillors and anti Britsh thinking.
Corbyn was a eurosceptic before bein elected leader but soon changed his mind once in office. Cannot be trusted to follow his previous convictions having been indoctrinated to the EU high table with his hand in the EU pot of gold.
Wilf
1st Mar 2016
0
Thanks for voting!
Totally agree with a lot but get rid of the tories and what have Mr Corbyn in---that should work well???
wpshark
28th Feb 2016
4
Thanks for voting!
I do not understand how people in this country just keep voting either Tory or Labour. We have seen that Labour is disintegrating and under Milleband it almost reached destruction. Corbyn is a divisive figure and as things stand there will be no Labour to contest another election.
The Tories have ripped the heart out of this country by taxing the poor and needy and enriching their buddies. They have introduced the most ridiculous punitive taxes (bedroom tax) that have caused nothing but misery and people to commit suicide because they can't cope. IDS and Camoron should be tried for murder.
The ONLY answer is a totally fresh and new perspective and stance . One that looks at Britain and its people firstly. One that will stop the influx of illegals and asylum seekers, One that will end the millions lost to the EU and other PC action groups. This is my appeal to all of you to save this once great country.....vote UKIP. PLEASE>
Wilf
1st Mar 2016
0
Thanks for voting!
They have 1 MP and in the last election nobody voted for them???
crazyhorse
2nd Mar 2016
0
Thanks for voting!
I along with almost four million others voted for them, and will continue to do so, we are the only party who cares for this country
JohnHerb
2nd Mar 2016
0
Thanks for voting!
Yes but only 1 MP and even he is arguing with Nigel Farage! This issue is there should be proportional representation of that I agree
scandiman
29th Feb 2016
0
Thanks for voting!
Wpshark- I didn't vote in last election because I was disillusioned with politics and still am. I will vote in the referendum because I believe it to be the most important issue facing us for a generation. We are governed by clever know-it-alls, educated at great cost in the best schools at Mummy and Daddy's expense. The rest of us have to make do with what we can get. The entire system needs radical overhaul. I used to vote Conservative, but never again. Labour, with its champagne socialists is no longer the true Labour Party. Don't get me started on the Liberals. I don't agree with the BNP, but it isn't difficult to see why organisations like them are expanding.
redfive
28th Feb 2016
6
Thanks for voting!
Ghosts from the past.
Just what are you doing to our Country?
With your silly rules and foreign laws,
For real men fought and died for you,
What the Hell was it all for?
What have you done to my Country?
That I gave my life fighting for?
Did you cherish the freedom I left you?
Or did you lose it forever more?

I died protecting these precious Isles,
From that great dictator of old,
So that HE would never rule over us,
Nor remove our reserves of gold.
But you delight in making silly rules,
Relish making your fellow man squirm
Where is the laughter, the jokes, the fun
When will you ever learn?

My unrest shall disturb your future,
As you have disturbed my peace,
Anarchy, vile deeds shall descend on you,
Unless these untruths at last now cease.
For those in whom WE placed our trust,
Such treachery by them has been shown,
On the people once more the burden will fall,
Till their new battle for freedom, be won.
wpshark
28th Feb 2016
6
Thanks for voting!
WOw that says it all.
Roof Top Crow
28th Feb 2016
-2
Thanks for voting!
We are months away from the referendum and we are already seeing parliamentary chaos and the beginnings of a very tough time for our economy.
It is now clear that if the “Outers” win we will have chaos on all sides.

The Conservative party is already splitting itself apart and if the “Outers” win we will have to have another general election. Our choice will be Boris Johnson or Jeremy Corbyn. Words fail me.

It is already very clear that if the “Outers” win our economy will suffer a massive set back as the foreign businesses here and abroad lose confidence in our ability to govern ourselves and give them the benefit of free trade with Europe. In the first two years many foreign businesses will pull out of the UK and go to Frankfurt, Brussels or Paris.

If the “Outers” win Scotland will have its own referendum and this time the answer will be yes. They will separate themselves from England, Wales and Northern Ireland and apply for EU membership. Britain’s population will shrink by 10% when Scotland leaves.

I could go on and I probably will in a future piece but what does this all matter to us Silversurfers.
What this all means is that if the “Outers” win there will be less and less tax being collected by the treasury. Less tax means less money for the NHS, social welfare, education and of course care for the elderly.

I will repeat myself because that’s what us Silversurfers do. We are months away from the referendum and already seeing parliamentary chaos and the beginnings of a very tough time for our economy.
We have two choices.
IN. Stay in the EU and make it work better.
OUT. Get out of the EU and have many many years of uncertainty and chaos.
roverT33
28th Feb 2016
0
Thanks for voting!
It's people like you that make me really angry. The wool has been pulled well over your Eyes. You will know nothing about The Coudenhove-Kalergi Plan and the Slow Genocide Of The Caucasian People Of Europe and Agenda 21(which is now 2030). Just why did my ancestors die to give you the freedom to speak. When you can speak without Knowledge. I served my Country for what ? just as they did, but I'm still alive to defend my Nation. You will not have the Freedom to speak your drivel if we don't get out of this Fascist/Marxist Dictatorship. This referendum will be Our Last Chance to make a decision on this Countries future. It is beginning to dawn on the 650 men and women in Westminster that there will be no need of them when we are fully in the EU.
wpshark
28th Feb 2016
4
Thanks for voting!
Aorry Mate but the truth is that OUT is better. We want control back we want to make this Great Britain again, And you know what?....even if that means that it is ONLY England then so be it.
Speeednet
28th Feb 2016
5
Thanks for voting!
You may feel that the gang in Westminster are a total bunch of morons, and to a point I would agree. But just ask yourself this; who would you rather spend the £55 million a day that it costs us to be a part of the EU? Do you think that rumpy pumpy and his pals in Brussels would do more for us with that cash than out own MP's?

We are an island with finite resources, our NHS is already at the limit as we can see by the doctors striking because of having to work seven days to cope. It was announced this week that the immigration boom has caused some secondary schools to reduce the catchment area to just over 500 yards from the school gates.

Homeless service men and women are being overlooked in favour of the refugees being foisted on us by Merkel and the rest of the German parliament running the EU. David Cameron has been shown since the election to favour his friends in big business and the bankers, do you think that he has had a "road to Demascus type revelation" and his stance now is for the benefit of the people, or just more of the same?

As you can probably gather, my mind is made up.
mayroyd
17th Apr 2016
0
Thanks for voting!
You are so right speednet, but where do you find any Politicians who can resist the 'Gravy Train' to replace the ones all clamouring to get on it.
I fully agree the Eu are worst of the lot. We do need to get out asap.
andrew1959
27th Feb 2016
-3
Thanks for voting!
For those who think Brexit will make Britain great again:

The Brexit campaign is wrong: the UK is already a sovereign nation

http://gu.com/p/4h56t?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_In_Zwischenablage_kopieren
captain nemo
2nd Mar 2016
0
Thanks for voting!
the UK hasn't been a sovereign nation since we joined the so-called common market. The eu dictats spread into every nook and crevice of our way of life. 75% of UK law arrives out of thin air from the eu commission. We have 1 vote in 27 at the eu....this alleged top table. This isn't my idea of a sovereign nation.
Joan Fraser
27th Feb 2016
0
Thanks for voting!
I have said here that I wish to remain in EU; this is only partially the case. I feel I am a citizen of the world albeit a very patriotic Scot. When I travel I see evidence of many benefits of EU membership; however I also dislike some of the fishery dictates, uncontrolled migration etc. I believe if we REALLY knew what decisions and 'deals' were made, it might help decide better and more democratically on the dilemma we face.

My own thinking is that UK presents an inflated sense of importance as to our place in the world, and I suppose that is quite natural when so many of our UK representatives come from the elite establishments still firmly rooted in Empire, Raj, and Dominion taking. The world has moved on, yet many 'precious' outlooks remain, and are quite detrimental.

There is a huge difference between bargaining and working with determined confidence and wanting deals based on pomposity....I believe we are seen as being pompous, and want/deserve more than others. We will never build genuine friendships and links if UK is seen as lacking integrity and thinking we are better than others.
redfive
27th Feb 2016
4
Thanks for voting!
The young lady on Question Time really said it all. We don't need any sort of rif raf coming here my relations didn't give their lives so a nobody from another country can start telling us how to run our lives. We won that right and its not for sale. End off.
scandiman
27th Feb 2016
3
Thanks for voting!
Red five- this country bankrupted itself in WW2. At war's end, we struggled for years, while Marshall Aid helped rebuild Germany. We had outdated manufacturing processes, strikes and bad management. An exhausted Britain received no help from anyone. Eagerly we joined EEC, not realising there was a hidden plan to create a European superstate, with us as a major financial contributor.
I want to know exactly how the balance sheet looks; how much do we get back in return for our membership 'fee'. Like you, I wonder what my forebears would make of us. NHS on the point of collapse, an enfeebled police who are merely an extension of social services, small children starting school who aren't toilet trained, political correctness, a transport infrastructure overloaded, crippling immigration and a legal system which favours the criminal. There is not one politician of any standing or repute who is willing to fight for us. Oh, and patriotism is a dirty word.
JohnHerb
2nd Mar 2016
2
Thanks for voting!
I think your points like NHS on the point of collapse and an enfeebled police are a bit over the top! The UK is still one of the greatest countries in the world and as debated on sites like this has the most freedom of speech of any country I know!
Roof Top Crow
29th Feb 2016
-1
Thanks for voting!
In 2015 we contributed £17.4 billion pounds to the EU.
In 2015 we got back the following from the EU.
£4.9 billion as part of the Thatcher agreement.
£4.4 billion for regional grants and agricultural subsidies.
£1.4 billion in grants to UK businesses.
£0.8 billion in a complex return of the aid we give overseas.

So we got back from the EU somewhere around £7 billion pounds in 2015.

in 2015 our exports to the EU were £230 billion. So to trade with the EU, who are our largest trading partner we pay a 3% tariff.

Hope that helps.

NB
The UK economy. The overall government spend in 2015 was in the region of £750 billion.
scandiman
29th Feb 2016
0
Thanks for voting!
Thanks for that, Roof Top Crow!
scandiman
27th Feb 2016
4
Thanks for voting!
In one of the papers today (Feb 27), a school reported a pupil to police for accessing the UKIP and EDL websites. Apparently, schools have to protect children from 'extremism'. I do agree with much of UKIP's stance, but not EDL. It is however, a principle of life in UK that a person is free to express their views. As Samuel Johnson said, 'I disagree with everything you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it'. We are being censored by the views of the Left who dictate what is and is not 'offensive'. Worst thing you can do now is to hurt someone's feelings. How is that pupil to form his own opinions unless he looks at a variety of views? Or is the only correct point of view that which appears in The Guardian? Which is worse, right wing extremism, or left wing extremism posing as liberalism?
petesline9
26th Feb 2016
4
Thanks for voting!
Stay in the eu What a joke !
Daves good friend Angela merkel
Is trying to play Mary poppins
To all migrants ,
Guess what it's not working ,
Just have chat to some of the German
People who's lives have been turned
Upside down by their new lovely little neibours
Oh sorry I forgot most of these people are
From war-torn countries
When the Germans have stated that over 130.000
Migrants who came to their country' within the last year
signed up to Declare who they were
Only to disappear ! But they were grateful :))
It's really funny how the British press
Hate Donald trump
For what oh yes that right for having the guts to speak
The truth on how we are all getting taken to the cleaners...
sparrer
26th Feb 2016
2
Thanks for voting!
Stay in the EU which protects our interests or become the poor relation to the USA dropping bombs on innocent people. No contest.
crazyhorse
2nd Mar 2016
0
Thanks for voting!
Since when has the EU PROTECTED our interests, one word, never
Kit Wingate
26th Feb 2016
8
Thanks for voting!
Cassandra say's.....
I am 89 years of age. and for 20 years I wore a Khaki uniform for this country, three of those 20 years were during that time we all remember as WW2...do you all still remember it ???. Most of those on the other side of the North Sea and the English Channel were our enemies, some were our allies until they were occupied, and a few of them collaborated with Mr Hitler's gang....now here they all are in an organisation they call the European Union, I DID NOT ELECT ANY ONE OF THEM, yet they all make laws and specify that I have to live my life by them.THEIR Union cost this country BILLIONS of POUNDS...I believe we pay into that SYSTEM six million pounds per week...and the Union's Finances and its Account Books HAVE NEVER BEEN AUDITED.....how on earth can all you people out there still dither about not knowing which way to vote....as an Englishman we always did well before this E.U. was cooked up crookedly by our politicians and signed by them WITHOUT the consent of the citizens of the UK, no politician ever had the mandate to sign those agreements on our behalf. We in UK did very well before the E.U. of course we had our problems, who didn't...BUT and its a big BUT, we all VOTED for the ones who governed us...if we got to not liking them or trusting them after a period of them in office
So don't accept the string of claptrap your will all get fed within the next few...BE A BRIT, FIRST , FOREMOST AND LAST....That's how we won that WW2 job.
Valderee
26th Feb 2016
0
Thanks for voting!
I still think we would be better to stay with the EU
Wilf
1st Mar 2016
1
Thanks for voting!
Yes I agree the alternative is a worrying leap in the dark
john boy
26th Feb 2016
4
Thanks for voting!
i think its time to leave its gone from a common market to being ruled by Brussels and immigration is a problem this is a small country and i think we have got to the percentage in this country that is now affecting the infrastructure of the country
sagagirl
26th Feb 2016
3
Thanks for voting!
I'm very undecided in what to vote. I listen to all the articles regarding for & against leaving the E U,but still cannot commit. So am hoping by June, I'll have made up my mind.
This is so not what a forum needs to know ! Sorry.
scandiman
26th Feb 2016
2
Thanks for voting!
Saga girl- the difficulty is that there is no proper debate about this. All we here are statements, largely of opinion, without facts. We need a TV programme with economists etc (without political bias) putting each side in a frank, open manner without the alarmism, hysteria and bias we get from politicians. Politicians behave as if only they know what's best and treat us as idiots. It is they who have got us in this mess in the first place. One can only make a decision as best one can and hope for the best.
jacqihodgson
26th Feb 2016
1
Thanks for voting!
To pull out would be very damaging, it would also be very £costly (especially to our faming community). We benefit hugely from being part of the EU. We need a more intelligent approach to our membership and engage more wholeheartedly in how Europe is managed while keeping our UK identity and decision making as close to where it impacts as possible. At present devolution is being proposed in the UK, however it is anything but that as drains away power and finance from local authorities, placing important decisions such as major infrastructure and growth schemes in the hands of new unaccountable bodies. We should be far more worried about that than our membership of the EU.
Robert2706
26th Feb 2016
1
Thanks for voting!
I believe we will be fine out of the EU but we must not expect results immediately. What am concerned about are:
1 How long will it take to actually leave the EU?
2 Will the government be coerced by the EU to have a second vote with a different question?
3 What will theTory party do if they are left in charge of getting us out and managing a post EU country?
4 Will Cameron resign?
5 What are our legal and financial ties to EU treaties that could delay an exit etc etc?

Robert
Tarka
26th Feb 2016
1
Thanks for voting!
Whatever Cameron says - if we can't control our borders, make our own laws, and do our own international trade deals, but at the same have to pay a large amount of money to an undemocratic bureaucracy in Brussels, we cannot claim to be a secure, sovereign country...in control of our own destiny.
nome
26th Feb 2016
2
Thanks for voting!
Its all very confusing not just for silversurfers but for anyone I speak to. What we need is some clever person to list all the pros and cons of in and out and I want those that relate to the individual and the family, how it will affect us for the good or bad. Some simple lists would be good. Thank you
titch1312
24th Feb 2016
5
Thanks for voting!
As I understand it Mr Cameron is stating we are better in the EU on the grounds of Safety and Security which I totally disagree with. The reason I disagree are as follows; 1) Free movement of people within EU so we don't know who is here and who is planning n coming here. If we were out of the EU then it would be mandatory for passport details to be logged before travelling. 2) Free movement of packages and goods throughout the EU. Again we don't know what is coming into the UK or going out, there could be anything. If we were out of the EU then official customs declarations would need to be made and therefore Border Force and other security departments would know what is coming or going.
Mr Cameron once said we are all in it together - some of us more than others I think
scandiman
24th Feb 2016
4
Thanks for voting!
I have just seen the juvenile exchanges between Cameron and Corbyn at PM's Questions in the Commons, largely about what their mothers might or might not say. Are they really the best that our political parties have to offer? No wonder the electorate, especially the young, feel detached from politics. This yah boo, sucks to you, knock-about, playground behaviour is totally unacceptable. Perhaps we should, in spite of what I've said here before, hand over the country to EU.
Foxy13
24th Feb 2016
7
Thanks for voting!
We must come out for the sake of future generations, and before we become an Islamic country.
Please get our country back so we can have our own laws back and make new ones for ourselves and not let unelected grabbers make laws and stop our.
Let us control our own borders. I could go on and on but it has been said over and over again. Vote UKip and get us out of EU.
pacolino
2nd Mar 2016
0
Thanks for voting!
The future generations might want to stay in!
scandiman
24th Feb 2016
5
Thanks for voting!
What I object to about EU- senior figures in EU commission, whom we did not elect dictating to us. No verifiable accounts have been produced for decades. 'Ever closer political union', a mantra spouted by the likes of Blair and others. We have had no say in this creeping centralisation. We have to ask permission to do just about everything.
28 member states makes it impossible to agree on anything. We have had 40 years of being told it's good for us, without cogent reasons being given. Almost all of the benefits now being claimed could have been achieved without us being a member. EU only want us to remain in because they want our money, and what military clout we still have.
Founders of the original EEC were intent on gradual integration and dominance without anyone noticing. We can manage on our own; the fact that we are having a referendum is a sign of strength. Leaving is not unthinkable. Time to be bold, time to take a calculated risk. Joining EU was just that; so is leaving.
Beddaugirl
24th Feb 2016
4
Thanks for voting!
Well said sir. We are all of the same opinion. My worry is, that, when the votes are counted, are we going to get the correct result? So far all votes on past elections and referendums always seem to surprise us, where do they come from? The government always seem to get the figure they need. In other words I believe that these referendums are open to being rigged in favour of the government.Mr. Cameron is so desperate to become the head of the EU panel that he would do anything to get there. He has great pleasure in telling everyone he is not interested in winning another term as PM, (not that he would get there again), simply because he wants the "privilege of running the EU. Will someone please tell him that shortly there will be no EU. They are already in a downward spiral. We certainly don't want to be caught up in that.
WATCHER
23rd Feb 2016
4
Thanks for voting!
IN 75 I VOTE TO STAY IN A COMMON MARKET A TRADE AREA NOT A SUPERSTATE, I DO NOT WANT TO BE GOVERNED BY EUROPE. BY PEOPLE WHO ON THE WHOLE WHO ONLY WANT TO KNOW US WHEN THEY NEED HELP. I'M ALL FOR TRADE BUT NOTHING ELSE.
the name s boris
23rd Feb 2016
7
Thanks for voting!
since dodgy dave became p m he,s used the british veto 40 times and 40 times he,s been beaten and on any single veto the most friends he could muster is 3. Now to use the red card he,s got to find 14 friends(good luck with that dave). I wish politicians with there scaremongering and fear of what will happen would stop putting this country down stop putting the people of this great country down .Yes it might be tough at first but we will get through it because we are strong but most of all we are BRITISH
Richard Milner
23rd Feb 2016
1
Thanks for voting!
At the moment there is very information. All I hear is OUT without people giving a valid reason. Before the UK was accepted in to original EEC, life for Britons in general was not that good, but over the last 50 years, the standard of living has improved as well as other improvements.

Most people know that the EU is fractured, but it is not broken. The EU can be mended with help from one of the most important partners - the United Kingdom.

The UK is not broken, it is not ruined. The UK is one of the stronger countries in the world today.

One problem that has not been covered, are all the expats throughout Europe. There are over 2 million, plus hundreds of thousands more who have holiday homes. The feeling I get, is they no-one cares. So, for arguments sake, the vote is Out and over the next few years, pensions maybe frozen, healthcare arrangements maybe stopped, there could be an influx of expat pensioners fleeing Europe, to return to their homeland wanting homes, extra benefits etc, etc....these expats coming back, would be a burden for the UK.

I am sure of one guarantee, the Euro will not be imposed on the UK..
HJR58
23rd Feb 2016
2
Thanks for voting!
I honestly don't think I have enough information at the moment to decide. There are lots of things I don't like about it but worry about the financial/business/employment implications. We are a small nation now, no empire and little industry - how will we compete?
britmale
23rd Feb 2016
2
Thanks for voting!
Just read your newspapers and take a look at the net. Absolutely full of information. Theres loads in the Library too.
jinnyb
23rd Feb 2016
5
Thanks for voting!
I am surprised at the result so far. I didn't think that our generation would vote to leave the EU quite so overwhelmingly.
britmale
23rd Feb 2016
5
Thanks for voting!
We all remember when we lived in a Free Nation and decided our own future. We voted yes for the Common Market but not for a Euro State
razzy
23rd Feb 2016
4
Thanks for voting!
The EU has done us more harm than good I think it is long gone time for the parting of the ways ....There is no way I have benefited from being in the EU.... and to be honest was disgusted when due to ill health had to close my shop and became unemployed...I received no benefits (even though I paid tax and insurance for myself and staff), and was told by a member of the Job Centre if I was an immigrant with no means of support I would receive benefits ...but as it stood it was my Husbands duty to support me .... But members from an EU country can come here get free medical treatment and benefits to send home to their family in their own country. they work here 10 months of the year pay tax go home for 3 months and get most of their tax back
baslowman
23rd Feb 2016
1
Thanks for voting!
leave to find what? Yet still have to workj withthe countiees we have just spurned. foreign media owners telling us what to think. leaving would be a disaster, ecomically, geopolitically, and culturally. The spiteful little Englanders of the Daily Mail variety (whose founder ascribed its success to giving its readers 'something to hate every day') would have won. We can do better than to give in to that kind of narrowness of spirit
britmale
23rd Feb 2016
2
Thanks for voting!
Absolute rubbish. There are more countries outside of the EU than in It. We pay a fortune for very little in return and we have no real control over our own country. I love my country and I am proud of its past achievements. I am proud of those millions who gave their lives defending this country. I want the right along with my children, grandchildren and great grandchildren to decide our own futures and to trade with every country freely not just the few inside the EU. Anyone who thinks that the fifth largest economy in the world will collapse outside the EU is wrong, but I can assure you it will disappear totally inside the EU in a very few years with an unelected Government and Head of State. Our parliament will be that of a county council and the word ENGLAND will be struck form all communications as it is now on Euro Maps.
jeanmark
24th Feb 2016
3
Thanks for voting!
I think you will find we are voting as the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland rather than England which is only one of four countries.
baslowman
24th Feb 2016
3
Thanks for voting!
I am proud of our history too and proud to be British (and not just English - though I am that too). I have no illusions that the EU is wonderful - it isn't, but it is the least worst option facing us. We could become the official or unofficial next stae to the US (but I doubt they would want us). True independence for states our size is hard to achieve and most ocuntires belond to trading blocs of one sort or another. The 'ever closer union' idea has been thrown out (and was only ever seriously wanted by small countries like Belgium for understandable historical reasons). We don't have to use the euro. as foir seeinhg national governments disappear - I very much doubt it - being completley cynical - there are too many politicians earning too much money in every national anbd regional parliament to let that happen.
Alicia
23rd Feb 2016
6
Thanks for voting!
Leave the EU as soon as possible before this country is completely ruined.
Wilf
23rd Feb 2016
-4
Thanks for voting!
Not sure it will be that bad will it if we stay in?
mitieroc
23rd Feb 2016
-4
Thanks for voting!
"What did the EU ever do for us?
Not much, apart from: providing 57% of our trade;
structural funding to areas hit by industrial decline;
clean beaches and rivers;
cleaner air;
lead free petrol;
restrictions on landfill dumping;
a recycling culture;
cheaper mobile charges;
cheaper air travel;
improved consumer protection and food labelling;
a ban on growth hormones and other harmful food additives;
better product safety;
single market competition bringing quality improvements and better industrial performance;
break up of monopolies;
Europe-wide patent and copyright protection;
no paperwork or customs for exports throughout the single market;
price transparency and removal of commission on currency exchanges across the eurozone;
freedom to travel, live and work across Europe;
funded opportunities for young people to undertake study or work placements abroad;
access to European health services;
labour protection and enhanced social welfare;
smoke-free workplaces;
equal pay legislation;
holiday entitlement;
the right not to work more than a 48-hour week without overtime;
strongest wildlife protection in the world;
improved animal welfare in food production;
EU-funded research and industrial collaboration;
EU representation in international forums;
bloc EEA negotiation at the WTO;
EU diplomatic efforts to uphold the nuclear non-proliferation treaty;
European arrest warrant;
cross border policing to combat human trafficking, arms and drug smuggling; counter terrorism intelligence;
European civil and military co-operation in post-conflict zones in Europe and Africa;
support for democracy and human rights across Europe and beyond;
investment across Europe contributing to better living standards and educational, social and cultural capital.
All of this is nothing compared with its greatest achievements: the EU has for 60 years been the foundation of peace between European neighbours after centuries of bloodshed.
It furthermore assisted the extraordinary political, social and economic transformation of 13 former dictatorships, now EU members, since 1980.
Now the union faces major challenges brought on by neoliberal economic globalisation, and worsened by its own systemic weaknesses. It is taking measures to overcome these. We in the UK should reflect on whether our net contribution of £7bn out of total government expenditure of £695bn is good value. We must play a full part in enabling the union to be a force for good in a multi-polar global future.

Simon Sweeney,

Lecturer in international political economy, University of York"
britmale
23rd Feb 2016
4
Thanks for voting!
The trouble with liberal guardian readers is they tend to want world government at any cost. Everything mentioned above has been paid for out of UK taxes. NO MONEY HAS BEEN GIVEN BY ANY EUROPEAN STATE to support this country. A lot of the laws passed have caused it damage. As a Nation do we really want to surrender control of our country to other nations, there are more of them than there are of us. Do we really want to loose the freedom of choosing our own government in favour of an unelected Euro state with am unelected head of state. We can do so much better with our freedom and independence. We are one of the worlds most innovative nations and we will stay that way OUTSIDE of the EU but openly and freely trading with the rest of the world. Just remember PEACE IN EUROPE has been obtained by british and commonwealth loss of life along with our Friends in the USA, and its been held all these years by yhe UK and US Forces based on European soil. THE EU had no part in that.
jeanmark
24th Feb 2016
0
Thanks for voting!
I think you may well find there was loss of life in all the european countries involved in conflict to achieve PEACE IN EUROPE. It's rather condescending to believe peace was only achieved by British and Commonwealth loss of life along with our Friends in the USA. I don't feel such attitudes help the debate.
mitieroc
24th Feb 2016
0
Thanks for voting!
EU membership costs us a fortune.

Not true. In fact, our own (rather eurosceptic) government estimates that EU membership is worth £3000 a year to every British family. And the budget for the whole EU is just 1% of GDP — that’s just about 2% of our national public spending!

Our most important markets are China and the US, not the EU”

Not true. The EU is the world’s largest single market. Fully half of Britain’s exports go there (amounting to some 3.5 million British jobs). Britain sells more to Holland alone than to the whole of China.


“Europe is run by a sprawling bureaucracy”

Not true. The European Commission has fewer employees than Leeds city council.

Most of our laws come from Brussels”

Not true. The independent House of Commons library found that the real proportion is just 13.2% of our laws. And these figures include everything that even mentions the EU, even if it’s just a “passing reference” or a definition, according to the researchers!

European laws are made by unelected bureaucrats

Not true. The European Commission doesn’t make laws. It only makes proposals, which are then debated, amended and passed (or rejected) by elected national governments and directly elected MEPs. In any case, Commissioners themselves are accountable to the European Parliament, which elects its president, approves its appointment and can dismiss it.

“British businesses are drowning in EU red tape”

Not true. After all, most EU legislation actually cuts red tape by replacing 28 divergent sets of national rules with a single set of pan-European common rules for the common market. This saves businesses from duplication and compliance costs. Just one example: it’s now possible to register a trademark once, valid across 28 countries, instead of having to do 28 different sets of form-filling, registering, troubleshooting and fee-paying. Moreover, as the Federation of Small Businesses argued recently, EU-wide rules actually protect British businesses from competitors abroad who might undercut our high standards if they could.


“Switzerland and Norway survive perfectly well outside the EU”

Be careful what you wish for! Switzerland and Norway are both small countries with specialised ‘niche’ economies: Switzerland with its often-criticised banking system, and Norway with its massive oil reserves. But their industries have to follow EU rules as that’s their main market. As non-members, they have no say over the adoption of those EU rules. They cannot defend their interests. They have, effectively, lost sovereignty through their isolation. Nor does staying out save money -– the Norwegian contribution per capita to the European budget is about the same as that of the UK! For the Norwegians, being non-members, it is taxation without representation.


“EU migrants are a drain on our resources”

Not true. Firstly, most migrants in Britain are from outside the EU. Secondly, those that come here from our European neighbours pay far more in tax than they take in services and benefits. Most EU citizens living in the UK are young and contribute to our economy, having been educated and trained recently at the expense of their own country’s taxpayers. They have no right to jump the queue for benefits of any kind, and they can only come to Britain to work or if they’re self-sufficient.

On a more personal note, I also read the Times, The Independent, and Mail and Express.

I am not a liberal I am a proud socialist.

I am ethnic White British with Irish and distant Jewish forebears, had a Grand Father who was in the Royal Artillery in World War 1, a Father and Uncle in the Royal Signals in World War Two and played a very minor role in the Cold War, I have been employed for all but one year since 18, pay all my taxes and have as much right to comment on this country as anybody.
petesline9
22nd Feb 2016
5
Thanks for voting!
I have just watched David Cameron's
Speech on how he won't be standing
For the next uk election ,
Well considering how he plans for our
Country to remain in Europe
That's really big of him !
I would just like to say thanks Dave
Oh just one thing , are you going to let
The kids leaving schools and collages
Know That a large proportion of their taxes
Will be spent on a lot of little countries with
Big pockets and not a great deal more ' in
The name of multiculturalism Vote out
scandiman
23rd Feb 2016
3
Thanks for voting!
I would bet DC will do a neat side-step into some cosy, well-paid non-job at EU. That's where Kinnock and Mandelson went. Nice jobs for the boys. I predict that if we vote by a small majority to leave EU, we will be told to vote again. If we vote by a small majority to remain, that will be accepted. If we do vote out, it will take years before it happens. I think we will vote to stay in by 52%. Heaven help us.
Wilf
23rd Feb 2016
3
Thanks for voting!
Its all nice jobs for the boys. As you say look at Kinnock he is a real champagne socialist "lets all be equal...ah but I need to be a little more equal than the rest of you"...brings back to mind Animal Farm...... Mandelson is the same...loves the high life and fluttering about with the rich and famous-a true Socialist!
rudgy
20th Feb 2016
4
Thanks for voting!
Forgot to say my vote is out .
rudgy
20th Feb 2016
4
Thanks for voting!
Cameron is trying to fool everyone.The question is what will staying in the EU do for most of the population .
We need to be in control of our own boarders,this is an Island ,there is not enough room for the people who live here now.Ask the people on the Isle of Bute in Scotland how they are getting on .
Just think what it will be like when Turkey is let in to the E U .Madness.
lizfid3
20th Feb 2016
2
Thanks for voting!
I have never considered myself European. I am British and I want to stay that way. If we stay with this bunch of ne'er do wells we will inevitably become minions of the Greater European Republic with no control over our laws, currency, borders or sovereignty. Oh no doubt those who are lining their pockets will shout the doubters down but they can shout as much as they want. I am voting to come out and be part of the world again instead of a bit player in a tragi/comedy which calls itself a "Union". There's nothing unified with that lot.
jeanmark
24th Feb 2016
1
Thanks for voting!
I consider myself British but not racist and would never describe other Europeans as a 'bunch of ne'er do wells'
Wilf
1st Mar 2016
1
Thanks for voting!
All the people from every country in Europe have been very pleasant
petesline9
20th Feb 2016
5
Thanks for voting!
Out of curiosity why should any of the European
Countries want to give Great Britain
Anything after all
The most that we have ever given any
Of their nations is a bloody nose over the last
5 century's ,
I am a true Brit and to be honest I don't want
That lot telling my county what to do!
My farther was at Dunkirk , and do you
Think that any of those people would
Want to see their county go down the toilet
For if we stay in Europe then we are
On a one way flush !
And don't look towards the US for assurance
As they are in a worse state than us
scandiman
19th Feb 2016
0
Thanks for voting!
Why is my comment an hour ago 'awaiting approval'? Nothing in it is likely to offend. Why the censorship?
Kelly1419
19th Feb 2016
3
Thanks for voting!
If we vote to stay in the EU, they will eventually impose the Euro on us and our contributions will go up and up. This is our only chance to be independent again and trade with the whole world. There are 196 countries in the world and only 28 are in the EU including us. We have always been democratic and free. This so called 'renegotiation' can be reversed by the other countries as soon as our referendum is over! Turkey is joining soon and that means more than 75 million mainly Muslim people will have the right to travel here if they so wish. We are full up, our services are struggling. Vote LEAVE while we have the chance.
scandiman
19th Feb 2016
1
Thanks for voting!
Who would have believed that a British Prime Minister would go cap-in-hand to our EU 'partners' to ask them if they wouldn't mind making some very small concessions? What fool would think he would achieve anything, when he has to nicely ask it of 27 other leaders? After hours of chatter, still no agreement, yet still he persists. Is he trying to bore them into submission? I wonder what would happen if he said, 'OK, sod the lot of you, I'm going home'? It would restore his credibility at home! But no, this will drag on for days. Maybe he's hoping the public will give up and lose interest. I predict we will remain in EU, becoming nothing less than a vassal state of federal Europe. I think most people in UK have no interest in this anyway, and are only concerned with what's on telly, lager and curry. Heaven help UK. Glad I probably won't be around in 25 years' time to see the results. I have seen the best of this country, which is now in a slow and sad decline.
scandiman
17th Feb 2016
8
Thanks for voting!
I am so utterly tired of the endless prevarication, dithering, half-truths and downright lies we have endured for decades about EU. We did not vote for ever closer political union, our loss of sovereignty and losing control of our borders. We are walking into a federal Europe, where we will just do as we are told. I have had two of the You and Europe pamphlets, but nothing from the 'exit' side. Cameron does not want us to leave. He will do everything to keep us in. Even if we do vote to leave, it will take years before we do, because there will have to be negotiations about how it will happen. That is assuming the referendum will be free and fair, which I doubt. Either way, what ever happens, we will all just have to put up with it. I believe UK is done for. I am 60. If I were a younger man, especially with children, I would leave. I despair of our future.
petesline9
17th Feb 2016
5
Thanks for voting!
I just don't understand what Dave is trying to prove
He is over in Brussels sucking up to the born again
Fat cats of Europe
Of course they are going to toy about with him
As my country is a large part of their bread and butter'
Dave they don't like you or us 'we are a European cash-cow
For the have-nots of the continent ☹
Stafilos
17th Feb 2016
4
Thanks for voting!
I voted yes back in 1973 I think it was. What the EU has become was not what I voted for, this has been brought about by politicians most of whom have never been elected, hopefully soon I will get the chance to vote on Europe again and this time it will be a big emphatic NO.
Westminster
16th Feb 2016
2
Thanks for voting!
The main difficulty with being in the EU is our inability to control our borders.

Staying in the EU would probably fit with more people if we could determine who lives in the UK, and who we pay benefits to.

If we leave it will because the EU has left us by trying to become a massive political entity rather than the nine member trading bloc we joined in 1973.

Still, if we leave and it doesn't work out, we can always rejoin as the EU will always welcome our £15 billion pound annual fee.
Munsterlander
15th Feb 2016
-2
Thanks for voting!
We would be mad to leave the EU. It has created peace between great nations now since WW2 and if thats the only thing it has done then that has to be a good thing. There are so many benefits-easy to move between countries, cheap holidays, easy to work in other countries for Brits. I really worry for the UK if we exit
jacquimick
14th Feb 2016
7
Thanks for voting!
My first vote when I was 19 was NO to join in the first place. It was only supposed to be a free trade market. Not all the other laws and rules that go with it. I will vote to leave. I want my country back. We should be free to make our own laws, decide who lives here.

Our health service,schools,housing etc. etc. is seriously struggling because the population has exploded and the infa structure along with it's kitty cannot cope with it. If the extra population then go on to have children or bring other family members. Can you imagine how crowded we shall be in just 10 years.

We should not give benefits to people until they have paid into the system for at least 10 years and have benefits from their mother country in the meantime. If I as a pensioner want to live in France I will have to take out a private health care. This does not work in reverse for a pensioner from France if they want to live here.
Gum4
13th Feb 2016
10
Thanks for voting!
I'm afraid it's "Out" from me - we are just the EU's 'cash cow', I just hope enough people see the light to get us out !
lindz64
12th Feb 2016
10
Thanks for voting!
It's OUT for me and it can't come soon enough. I've just watched Angela Merkel on the news saying she really wants the UK to stay in Europe. Of course she does, she'd miss our £58m per DAY! How far would that amount go to sorting out our NHS, Police, Fire Service, Public Services? And then there's the migrant crisis. Noticed how when it's shown on the news the majority of them are men aged 18 - 40. They're not migrants, they're deserters from the war in their respective countries, they should be there fighting the war... where are their wives and children? Yes, out, out, out
RoyB
12th Feb 2016
12
Thanks for voting!
Its vote out for me. I voted IN last time round but enough is enough.
dawnsk
12th Feb 2016
13
Thanks for voting!
Out is the only way forward
marydennis
12th Feb 2016
10
Thanks for voting!
No, no, no! I voted out the first time around and shall be doing so again, hopefully will a more positive outcome this time.
HEAPUS
9th Feb 2016
15
Thanks for voting!
David Cameron is trying the biggest con trick ever on the British people with his so-called deal with Brussels ,they have given nothing .If the EU is prepared to give us so little now, when the threat of us leaving is imminent ,they will run roughshod over us in the future if ,God forbid ,the nation decides to stay in.
Westminster
8th Feb 2016
11
Thanks for voting!
We will still trade as we currently do with the EU after we leave.

For every £1 of goods we sell to them we buy £2 of goods in return.

We are quite capable of governing our own country, and deciding who should be allowed to come and live here.

Immigration is fine if it is controlled, and we can deport those immigrants who commit serious crimes.
Creamcaramel
6th Feb 2016
12
Thanks for voting!
Let's just put it like this I am capable of running my own household and paying my way. I don't need to pay the neighbour next door a vast amount of money so he can tell me exactly what I can and can't do
Wilf
4th Feb 2016
3
Thanks for voting!
My view is we should stay in as a trading country but get out of all the laws and issues with EU legislation etc
John Digby
4th Feb 2016
11
Thanks for voting!
Once again we see Cave-In-Dave standing up in the house of commons spouting lies when, even he, knows there is NOTHING new in the EU for Great Britain. Juncker was all smiles and gloating about how this was just a "Temporary" deal when infact it is no deal at all.
We need to make sure all our relatives, children and their families and friends know that this referendum is our last chance to secure Great Britain for our descendents and they must not miss this opportunity to remain in an independent sovereign country with ties all across the globe and not to become a small part of a federal EU and just another star on someone elses flag.
The EU is not Europe and Europe is not the EU.
leslieross
2nd Feb 2016
14
Thanks for voting!
Now, more than ever, with our Prime Minister's embarrassing meetings clear in my memory, I say we must get out of this 'trade agreement' and regain our country's independence and sovereignity. It is unseemly for a British Prime Minister to appear to be pleading for control of our country against unelected administrators. I'm glad my parents and grandparents cannot see this happening; it would break their hearts.
rodger2904
31st Jan 2016
8
Thanks for voting!
When the UK was an island, no channel tunnel, it's safe to say we were more secure in our border controls. The main worry people had was animals infected with rabies coming through the tunnel, that turned out to be the least of our worries. The UK is a magnet for the people living in the European countries that have poor health services, no welfare, no jobs, no housing. So they try to get over to the UK through the tunnel by travelling under the lorries, that are travelling to the UK. Once safely over they then make their way to the cities, where you see them begging on street corners, selling, playing a musical instrument and sometimes singing. Some are able to claim benefits and go to the Job Centre looking for a job and then claiming all the benefits available. They say they are keen to work but in the meantime they have no money and are entitled to a load of allowances and benefits from our social security system which you and I have paid into for upwards of 50 years. They are also homeless and the council is obligated to house them and provide accommodation until a house is available. They are also giving grants out of the public fund to furnish and decorate their house.
When I was at school, between the age of 8 to 15, during the 6 weeks’ school summer holidays, I was expected to go with my mother and pick berries at one of the local berry farms. We would all gather at the agreed pickup point at 7 am and the farmer would appear with a tractor and trailer and we would all get on and sit on the edge with our legs over the side almost falling off with every bump in the road. Great fun. Sometimes, they would use a lorry like the army 3-ton truck with the canvas top and a bench seat either side of the truck. We would pick berries from 8 am till 12 or 12.30 or until the farmer blew his whistle again. We then picked until 4 or 5 pm or until the field was picked clean. I wasn't allowed any of my berry money until I had picked enough to pay for my new school uniform. I picked about £1 a day which was quite good for my age. My mother managed about £3 to £5. I picked on the same side as her as I was too short to reach the top of the canes and picked the ones that were below the middle wire support. You may be asking why am I telling this story when we are talking about the EEC. My reason for telling this story is that I worked every summer at the berries earning money until I was 14 years old, when I got a job as an early morning roll delivery boy. I would collect my message bike with a large basket full of fresh baked morning rolls and would have to deliver them to customers before 7.30am. My mom would get me out of bed at 5am sit me in front of the electric fire and make me a roll and jam or syrup and a hot cup of tea. I had to be at the shop to start at 6am. I never went back to picking berries for a long time until I moved to Arbroath when I was stationed there at Condor RM Base. My wife and I went to the berries at a local farm. The summer job of picking berries is no more, well for local people it isn't. The reason, is they have to employ the foreign students from the EU, at £30 per day. Probably more than that now as the £30 is a 2006 figure. Also, they have to pay for accommodation which is supplied by the farmer, which I think is shocking as they get so little and they have to pay a rent as well as feeding themselves. I don't object to the students picking berries, as it is part of their course to go abroad and work and experience other cultures, even though they are being exploited.
petesline9
27th Jan 2016
14
Thanks for voting!
When the people of Germany finely realise
That Angela merkel wants to be
Everybody's friend good and bad !
And kick her out .
It will be to late for her country
I live in the north of England
Which is a great place to live' unfortunately
If our borders are not put up again soon then
My part of our country shall become
Like London ' not a very nice place to be
For true Brits , sad but so true
Trampas1955
3rd Mar 2016
1
Thanks for voting!
It's got everything to do with it!
Trampas1955
26th Jan 2016
12
Thanks for voting!
King Henry Vlll left the European church and we should do the same.
jeanmark
2nd Mar 2016
0
Thanks for voting!
What's the Church got to do with it and don't you mean Catholicism? Described as the entirety of the beliefs and practices of the Western and Eastern Churches that are in full communion with the pope as the Bishop of Rome and successor of Saint Peter the Apostle, united as the Catholic Church - not strictly the European Church. However, you may have meant lets get divorced which is the reason Henry VIII broke away from Rome!
GG
16th Feb 2016
2
Thanks for voting!
And he was such a nice, reasonable guy who never did anything to suit his own ends.
jeanmark
2nd Mar 2016
0
Thanks for voting!
Actually he was believed to be a reasonable man until his head injury following a jousting match!
leslieross
26th Jan 2016
11
Thanks for voting!
Leave the EU. It is a must to preserve our country's heritage. We will be nothing but a territory and loose our proud culture which spans centuries. We are and have been strong enough to stand alone for centuries. Our ancestors fought wars to keep our country independent and sovereign. Don't let it slip away now.
jeanmark
2nd Mar 2016
0
Thanks for voting!
Check your history - the Normans were French! Europe also has a proud history and want to retain it, how very 'British' to assume we are the only ones.
petesline9
26th Jan 2016
12
Thanks for voting!
I have always loved living in Great Britain
I served in the British army in the 70s
My father fought in ww2
My grand-father ww1
Though what I am now being told is that
I am a part of Europe now for good and bad !
Well in the event of a European conflict who
Would I fight for now !
Would it be for the open hand of foreigners
I don't think so and neither do the majority of my country
bluemoon239
21st Jan 2016
5
Thanks for voting!
I must say I'm rather disappointed at the results here. Obviously not the right forum for me. I'm not British enough . I've lived in Europe too long.
HEAPUS
22nd Jan 2016
3
Thanks for voting!
Are you always so condescending?
Wilf
27th Jan 2016
5
Thanks for voting!
I think thats a bit of a rude comment as everyone is entitled to their opinions
GG
16th Feb 2016
2
Thanks for voting!
HEAPUS
28th Jan 2016
3
Thanks for voting!
bluemoon239
22nd Jan 2016
2
Thanks for voting!
LinG
20th Jan 2016
2
Thanks for voting!
Be a part of it but change some of the restrictions
We need to be involved but not restricted as much as we are
John Digby
21st Jan 2016
7
Thanks for voting!
Absolutely NOT. Being part of it means by the end of 2017 we will be required to lose our sovereignty and become a federation member, adopt the Euro and have a vote in the EU of 1/28th part. Historically, every one of the federal laws our MPs voted against has been passed. The accounts of the EU have not been ratified by the auditors for 20 years.
Surely you can smell a rat.
HEAPUS
14th Jan 2016
10
Thanks for voting!
I see that Nissan have said that they will stay in the U.K. even if we vote to leave ,the first company of many I predict ,exactly the opposite of what the pro E.U. side has been trying to scare us with.
pattianne
8th Jan 2016
11
Thanks for voting!
The common market was voted for not europe turning us the UK into an apendage of europe and our being laws dictated to us. We need to get our identity back and make the rules which are correct for the UK and not for the greater europe. It will not take us long to be once again free trading with the rest of the world
Wilf
9th Jan 2016
5
Thanks for voting!
Problem is we do trade with the rest of the world already but being further away goods will be more expensive. China will still be a major trading partner and the USA. Times have moved on we need to stay in the EU
jonglo
8th Jan 2016
5
Thanks for voting!
It's a no brainier get out Now and govern ourselves
tisim
7th Jan 2016
8
Thanks for voting!
we voted to join a common market but import more than we export to our so called community friends, leave now
John Digby
21st Jan 2016
7
Thanks for voting!
tisim, we didn't vote to be RULED by the EEC as it was then. Successive governments have taken us closer to to a FEDERAL EU which removes our Sovereignty and and give the whole of the UK a single vote out of 28 nations.
It is obvious why the younger members of the EU want us to remain and that is because they can send all their unemployed here and they still get a greater share of the handout than they contribute.
Speeednet
1st Jan 2016
9
Thanks for voting!
The EU need us a lot more than we need them, the Commonwealth is a much larger market place and without the bureaucracy and red tape our businesses would be more agile and able to move with the times. We could close our borders and choose exactly who we wish to come here, and start repatriating some of the undesirables we are currently saddled with. We could increase pension payments by £1000 per week per person with the money would would save not pouring it into the bottomless pit that is the EU. Not that anybody would of course, but that is the magnitude of the payments we are forced to chip into that bureaucratic cesspit.
Laurel
20th Dec 2015
1
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If we left the EU we would be totally isolated - better to be on board and to know what is going on. I feel it is the better, though far from ideal, choice
I feel it's the better, though very far ideal choice
Barton babe
20th Dec 2015
9
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Get out now, should have happened years ago.
meggieb
18th Dec 2015
6
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A total rip off, what happened to individually, freedom of speech, not being told what to call items! plus let's stay Great Britain first and foremost instead of trying to be like monkeys we are the organ grinder for god sake!
bluemoon239
18th Dec 2015
-6
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I used to live in a country that didn't and still hasn't joined, Norway. Then I moved to Italy, that certainly has had its share of problems with the euro, almost everything doubled in price when they changed currency. That is everything eccept the wages. I think the UK made the right choice back then, regarding the currency, but I think we should stay in the EU.
John Digby
21st Jan 2016
5
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You have experienced the EU at its worst and yet you are still of the opinion that we shoud remain? You should be ashamed. Remaining in the EU will make the UK susceptable to EU rules that are made and ratified by unelected beurocrats.They will eventually make it a rule that ALL members are united under a common currency and that will be the EURO. Not a wise move.
In 2009 the £-Euro was almost at parity, today it stands at £ = 1.3 Euros and with the volatile situation in Germany is likely to fall even further.
Westminster
4th Dec 2015
8
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A simple question, if we didn't belong to the EU, would we join an organisation that costs us £15 billion annually, and seeks to domin ate all aspects of our lives?

I think not.
keithknapman
4th Dec 2015
6
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It's the worst thing we ever done and we should leave the EU immediately.
Trampas1955
3rd Dec 2015
9
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The ruling classes are all keen to stay in the EU as most of their political mates invite them for holidays and the like throughout Europe. The political classes are closer to their Euro colleagues than they are to their own countrymen.
But for the UK in the long term it would be best if we left as political and social integration is now the order of the day. I can envisage a situation in 20 years time if we stay in where the pound will be gone. A European army will be the order of the day and we will be required to learn another European language as mandatory. The UK will be split into 4 and all our laws will be done in Brussels.
MargaretP
21st Nov 2015
6
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Too many rules and regulations about stupid things.
mickydripping
20th Nov 2015
-4
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We need much more information from both camps but, whilst there have been drawbacks to being a member, I think the UK has benefitted enormously. Education, jobs, better road systems for starters. I lived in Portugal for a few years just after they became a member, each evening the main TV channel gave a 5 minute information broadcast on what was under discussion, what had been decided and how Portugal would be affected, really useful and interesting. Think the British would be amazed at where we have benefitted, we just hear the restrictive negatives.
den1944
1st Nov 2015
3
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HEAPUS
31st Oct 2015
5
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Norway has far less clout than the U.K.