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Are you concerned about the economic impact of Brexit?

A leaked Government analysis has forecast that any outcome from Brexit would damage economic growth. 

Britain’s economy will be worse off after Brexit whether it leaves the EU with a free trade deal, single market access, or with no deal at all, according to the leaked document.

The papers prepared by the Department for Exiting the EU and obtained by website Buzzfeed make for sober reading.

According to the report, every UK region would be affected negatively in all the modelled scenarios. The North East, the West Midlands, and Northern Ireland are the three regions facing the biggest falls in economic performance.

The papers also suggested that, even with a comprehensive trade deal, UK growth would be down by 5% over the next 15 years. This would rise to 8% if Britain left without a deal and was forced to fall back on World Trade Organisation rules.

Prime Minister Theresa May has come under fire for a lack of clear Brexit strategy, and many are concerned about the negative impact Brexit fallout could have on jobs, household income, the NHS, and more.

MPs are deeply divided over what the best course of action is.

In recent months the national mood has also undergone a shift, with many expressing a feeling of unease over the outcome of the Brexit negotiations.

Some are calling for a second referendum vote – which even received unexpected support from Brexit supporter Nigel Farage last month.

What do you think? Are you concerned about the economic impact of Brexit? Or do you believe it’s best to stay the course and that any economic uncertainty would be a short-term sacrifice? 

 

Are you concerned about the economic impact of Brexit?

1348 people have already voted, what's your opinion? Yes No

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viking
1st Aug 2018
0
Thanks for voting!
Just returned from Norway, everything seems in order as always.

Don't worry Crow just join the Scan club, you will love it !!
Roof Top Crow
19th Jun 2018
0
Thanks for voting!
Are you concerned about the economic impact of Brexit?

We are leaving the EU, well sort of leaving. We are negotiating an agreement where we still pay into the EU, we will still be controlled by the European Court of Justice, we will not get money for agricultural support and we will not have a vote.

So what we are negotiating is an agreement that will not be as good as the agreement we have at the moment.

Meanwhile, EU manufacturers have completed long-term plans that recognize the UK will no longer be a good market for them. They are targeting other markets.

And so far Liam Fox has not negotiated one single new export deal with a country outside the UK
viking
1st Jun 2018
1
Thanks for voting!
Oh dear you poor remoners, after the programme"Carry on Brussels" you must surely have grave misgivings about your cause.
How is it that an English MEP can deliberately , in her own words "sabotage" the exit process, and then say it's fun ??
7000 lunatics running a gravy train, come on join the real world.
ColinM1
6th Jul 2018
-2
Thanks for voting!
We are European 62 % in our country voted remain . Stick the b****y Brexit up your a**e !!
ColinM1
1st Sep 2018
0
Thanks for voting!
Get real Viking ! Brexiteers are a gullible crowd who have been conned by crooks and political cheats. Those daft enough to support the Tory crooks and their Black Money pals in the sectarian DUP are about to find out what the cheating Black Money is all about . The UN have just put the knife in regarding their total inhumanity . Bring back hanging and there are a few obvious contenders !

UN quote : A “human catastrophe”
The UN Committee on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities (UNCRPD) has been meeting in Geneva, Switzerland. It has been assessing how well the UK government is sticking to its obligations under the UN Convention on the Rights of Disabled People, which the UK government ratified in 2009. The UNCRPD has been hearing evidence from disabled people’s organisations (DPOs), charities, and NGOs. But it has also been hearing counter-arguments from the UK government.
And the UNCRPD was unequivocal in its opinion on how disabled people are treated by the Conservative government. Its Chair, Theresia Degener, said in a statement seen by The Canary:
Evidence before us now and in our inquiry procedure as published in our 2016 report reveals that [welfare] cut policies [have] led to human catastrophe in your country, totally neglecting the vulnerable situation people with disabilities find themselves in.
ColinM1
24th May 2018
0
Thanks for voting!
Brexit is an ill founded concept which has been foisted upon the people using chicanery and acts of criminality which clearly negates the ill conceived referendum of yesteryear .
The fraudsters of Brexit find their little World falling apart ! Having already been fined £70 000 for electoral fraud with their chief executive referred to the Metropolitan Police ,these political chancers create 13 new Peers including 9 Tories to attempt to redress the 15 defeats it has sustained in the House of Lords attempting to force through EU Withdrawal Bill !
The Chickens are coming home to roost and yet they still attempt to assert that theirs is the democratic will of the people . Tosh ! The latest Poll is quite clear :

43 % of the electorate consider membership of the EU to be a good thing .
21% of the electorate are of the opinion it is neither a good or bad thing
23 % of the electorate consider membership of the EU a bad thing
9% of the electorate are undecided .
4% of the electorate not interested
Denys1954
13th May 2018
0
Thanks for voting!
We're doomed Mr Mainwering, we'er doomed
Roof Top Crow
11th May 2018
1
Thanks for voting!
In preparation for Brexit, all the car manufacturers in Germany have set up manufacturing plants in places such as the USA, South Africa, and Poland. But not in the UK.
.
The same manufactures have increased their marketing spend everywhere in the world but not in the UK.
.
Driving across Europe you now see a lot of new models of cars from the German and French manufacturers that are not available in the UK.
viking
25th May 2018
0
Thanks for voting!
I can not remember Germany ever having a popular volume car manufacturing facility in the UK apart from the RR/Bentley fiasco.
The point about us leaving the common market with regard to German manufactured cars is that they will do everything in their power to make sure that their exports to their 2nd largest market in Europe does not receive any reciprical tariffs from the UK.
The reason Roof Top that you see new models of cars from German and French manufacturers which are not yet available in this country being driven in Europe, is because they wish to iron out problems in mainland Europe before RH drive cars start to come into this country.
viking
6th May 2018
0
Thanks for voting!
"The cost of these irritating elements is so small" - really ? Try adding these "small" items up and see the end result !
Never mind Roof Top< Germany will make things very palatable for us being the 2nd biggest European market for their cars. Etc. Etc.
Roof Top Crow
3rd May 2018
0
Thanks for voting!
In June 2016 the UK voted to withdraw from membership of the EU and we have less than 12 months before this happens.

What have we learnt since June 2016. We now know that the government had not made any plans for a Brexit vote. We know that the leave and the remain campaigners told us things that were untrue.

We know that we are leaving behind a financial agreement that made the UK the 6th wealthiest country in the world and we know that the government under Prime Minister May have no plans in place for the future.

Inflation is rising, GDP is falling, high street shops are closing, car sales are falling and we will be breaking away from our biggest trading partner in less than 12 months.

In answer to the question, Am I concerned about the economic impact of Brexit. The answer is yes.
viking
27th Apr 2018
0
Thanks for voting!
The concerning part about the economic impact is that it will still continue for the members of the EEC. for them the "gravy train" will continue long after we leave . Why should the fat salaries and gross expenses change ? The economic impact on these people will be negligible.
Roof Top Crow
3rd May 2018
0
Thanks for voting!
The cost of these irritating elements of the EU are so small that they do not matter.

The really important thing is that the negative economic impact of the UK leaving the EU will be felt by all of us.

The remaning EU members will suffer a little bit but the UK will experience a huge decline in economic strength.
viking
26th Apr 2018
0
Thanks for voting!
Roebuck how your research must hurt the remainers !
Just a small item which I think sums up the EEC,which formed part of an interview by Paxo with one of the hierachy of the "mafia".
Why is it necessary ?? To take just under 500 people from Brussels to Strasbourg in coaches/ trains/etc every month, put them all up in hotels with food etc. Answer..... its in the constitution ! Can't you alter the constitution.......no !!!!!was the answer !!!
This is just one example which is kept under wraps by the EEC.
roebuck
25th Apr 2018
1
Thanks for voting!
Last year i carried out a lot of research on the EU for my own benefit not any political party as i think most politicians get advice from advisors anyway , they mostly have their head in the clouds.were you aware that the MEPS pension fund is almost bust??why after all the years of countries paying .in.
there are only 6 countries paying in ??WHY?
The EU accounts have never ever been signed off WHY ?
out of over 700+ MEPs only a handful provide receipts the rest claim over 30k without evidence of expenses WHY?
I could go on to say which country in my opinion is running the EU ? but I wont.
look at the unemployment is many of the larger countries like Spain, Portugal , Italy , GREECE ??to name of few.
Who is investing in the UK check it out China, Japan to name a couple.
British companies are having to invest in their business ,s to get ahead not political parties and it appear to be working for them because if they don't factories may move abroad to EU countries.good for the British bulldog approach
if the UK are paying in billions to the EU then charity starts at home first we must provide jobs for the next generation of youngsters. technology will replace many jobs fast see what happened in China and japan .makes interesting research .
UK must stay in front .I have readsome interesting remarks on this forum but do your own research .
don't believe everything you hear on the news or read in the newspapers.common sense must prevail
Roof Top Crow
11th May 2018
0
Thanks for voting!
A few comments.

EU accounts are signed of every September, they always have been.

EU pension fund. Just like most pension funds in the UK it is technically bust. Farage and the other UK MEP’s who campaigned for Brexit will get an EU pension for life.

In the past 10 years technology has created more jobs than any other single influencing factor in the UK economy.

My understanding on modern bulldogs is that they are overbred and have problems breathing and because their eyesight is very poor they blunder into things. Any comparison with Boris Johnson is purely coincidental.
Gertrude49
12th May 2018
0
Thanks for voting!
They are signed off - by themselves - and the books have not balanced for years.
Technology will continue to provide work. We have the most advanced computer graphics and film industry in the world as well as beig extremely advanced in AI.
Before the EU days we were a vibrant, energetic and extremely busy country - that has vanished since the EEC became the EU.
Yes - he does look like one, doesn't he?
Roof Top Crow
12th May 2018
0
Thanks for voting!
Hello Gertrude
My only comment is about the UK before we joined the EU. It is a very brief precis of a very complex subject.

The UK experienced an economic decline between 1945 and 1973. By 1973 the UK was the sick man of Europe.

Compared with the rest of Europe the UK came out of the 1939 to 1945 war relatively unscathed.

After the war, the 6 major European countries (EU6) who had all been devastated by the war worked together to rebuild their economies. It was funded by the Marshall Aid plan.

By 1969 the economies of the EU6 if measured by output, efficiency and wealth had overtaken the UK.

By joining the EU we became the 2nd strongest economy within the EU and the 5th strongest economy in the world.

We are now trying to end our membership of the EU.

I cannot explain the logic of this decision.
Gertrude49
13th May 2018
0
Thanks for voting!
I understand your concerns but in fact we in Britain received no hep whatever from anyone to rebuild. We were hardly unscathed - we had lost millions defending ourselves and the source of much of our income was (quite rightly) deserting us in the form of our Empire. The EU was great as the EEC, that was as far as it needed to go. Ceding any authority over any aspect of our country was not a good move - particularly as that was what we had just resisted doing with the loss of so many lives!

As for leaving - we did as much in 1534 when we broke with the Catholic church and - yet again - nobody in Europe liked us for doing it. We shall eventually bob back up again - the inimical badly behaved bunch of islands that has never really been European. We shall survive - if they ever let us go, It seems that it's s hard as being a bee trying to get off fly paper!!
Roof Top Crow
15th May 2018
0
Thanks for voting!
In 1945 mainland Europe was in chaos. Millions of people had been displaced and starvation was very common. The infrastructure had been destroyed by the war.

In the UK we still had law enforcement, political control, education, transport, water, electricity etc. None of these things existed in mainland Europe.

The UK borrowed $100 million dollars from the USA and Canada under the “Lease Lend” plan. The 50th and final repayment was made in 2006.

I have no doubt we will survive, but I suspect we will have a much weaker economy for the next 10 years. And that means less money for the things we value such as the NHS, Social Welfare, Education etc.

I do like " a bee trying to get off flypaper".
Onecott
18th Apr 2018
1
Thanks for voting!
There is no blue print to leaving the EU,so I don’t think one party would be better than another .These days I have started to think we should have a coalition government to do the job .
viking
13th Apr 2018
1
Thanks for voting!
My comments 10th March still apply, more so now than ever before.
ColinM1
4th Apr 2018
-1
Thanks for voting!
Brexit is an absolute disaster The Tory Government is totally incompetent and its Brexiteers are devoid of the relevance of the history of the individual nationalities that comprise what is known as the United Kingdom . 3 out of 4 countries kicked the crazy concept into touch . The Venezuala concept is kicking in - heaven forbid !
ColinM1
15th Mar 2018
1
Thanks for voting!
What a total disaster ! Brexit being pushed through by a bunch of incompetents who flirt with the two faced DUP and fail to listen to current opinion .
Kes
14th Mar 2018
3
Thanks for voting!
I’ll keep this short and sweet...... it might cost to leave, but it will cost more to stay in the long run.
Catrina700
12th Mar 2018
3
Thanks for voting!
For those of us who remember the first referendum 1973 or 74 to join what was then known as the common market. Within six months of the vote, prices in the shops increased due to storage of everyday items. Beef, butter mountains, and wine lakes as they were known in those days. This was done deliberately by Europe to subsidise inefficient french farmers. I remember people buying margarine because they could no longer afford to buy butter, I'd never heard of margarine prior to that time.

If we ever get out of the EU and for me the sooner the better. Hopefully these everyday items will reduce in price as we will no longer be forced to pay EU prices. Buying from other suppliers around the world as well as our own UK farmers, introducing competition. Currently our own farmers are being paid not to grow crops just to sit on land, which is ridiculous.
ian blair
28th Mar 2018
0
Thanks for voting!
I remember eating Stork margarine when I was at primary school back in the 1950's, we couldn't afford Butter even then , that was 20 years before going into Europe . Even the so called experts can't agree whether the EU is good for Britain so what chance has the average person of having an informed opinion when he can't remember eating margarine.
scandiman
11th Mar 2018
3
Thanks for voting!
This small island almost bankrupted itself fighting the Nazis. Afterwards we and others helped Europe rebuild. We got no help from anyone. It’s only comparatively recently that we have repaid our war debt to USA. We joined what was promoted to the public as a trading organisation. No mention was made of ever closer political union, that mantra beloved of people like Blair. We have followed the rules to the letter, while others have adapted or ignored them. Industrial strife, the greed of some capitalists and political ineptitude have wrecked this country. Our industries have been sold to foreign companies, and we have lost the ability to manufacture so many products where we were once world leaders, like shipbuilding. Our infrastructure is crumbling, the NHS over-managed and overwhelmed, the judiciary susceptible to the latest faddish idea,politicians hurling insults at anyone who disagrees with them and the countryside vanishing under concrete and tarmac. We either call a halt to our membership of the bloated, corrupt, federal and colossally expensive EU or we stay in and become a very small, insignificant part of it, with our identity removed. I am NOT European, I’m British. I have nothing in common with the French, Spanish or Italians. Culturally I have more in common with the north Germans and Scandinavians but don’t want to be dominated by any of them. Can we please stop the bickering and get on with getting out, which is what we voted for.
ian blair
28th Mar 2018
0
Thanks for voting!
Our political and military ties with Europe may be distasteful to some but I believe the EU and NATO have kept Russia at bay for nearly 70 years , most of that time we have had peace and prosperity and now we may find ourselves in jeopardy , divided but not yet conquered.
Like most other Western countries who benefited greatly from the industrial revolution , we face recessions and defisites partly due to the millions of tons of "stuff" we buy from the cheap Eastern , Asian and Oriental manufacturers .
Whatever happened to "Buy British"?
Perhaps it's time to look at some of Donald Trump's mad theories, they have started to "Buy American" and it seems to be working.
scandiman
28th Mar 2018
0
Thanks for voting!
I am doing my best to buy British, but it’s difficult. Have just bought a Vauxhall car, a company recently taken over by the French, having been mostly owned by General Motors. Almost all my domestic appliances are foreign, including TV and hi-fi, because there’s little choice. A major complaint of mine is apples. Try buying a British apple.
As for ties with EU and NATO, EU hasn’t kept Russia at bay, that was NATO, propped up by US military might. The problem with EU is that 27 countries can never agree on anything. In the event of another war I doubt we would get much support from France, like the last time. If there is another war, we will be on our own as far as other European countries are concerned, as always.
ColinM1
16th Apr 2018
-2
Thanks for voting!
And I thought bats were blind ! We are European sunshine lets get behind our mates in the EU !!
scandiman
18th Apr 2018
3
Thanks for voting!
Well thanks Colin for your carefully thought out and reasoned argument. Actually ‘sunshine’, our ‘mates’ in EU are only our ‘mates’ as long as we do as we are told. When we ask for something or need help, where are they? The same ‘mates’ who have pushed immigrants through Europe towards the promised land of Britain because they don’t want them. We don’t need ‘mates’ like them, ‘sunshine’.
ColinM1
18th Apr 2018
-2
Thanks for voting!
Immigrants are an essential requirement in many of our industries including fruit and agriculture It is clear now that the majority of voters would pick remain having realised the lies pushed by the two faced Brexiteers . The UK is a composite entity combining four states / countries / principalities and logically should be the opinion of all four irrespective of population . " A parcel of rogues in a Nation " is an apt phrase applicable to the present incumbents at Westminster an undemocratic system that has serves its time !
viking
10th Mar 2018
5
Thanks for voting!
Federalism [coming shortly ] = 4th Reich. So very subtle, do it gently and achieve your hearts desire to control the whole of Europe.
JenniferH7
9th Mar 2018
0
Thanks for voting!
Since we became a member of the EU unfortunately we lost the ability to negotiate trade deals unless it was part of the EU remit.
Spartan6
9th Mar 2018
0
Thanks for voting!
Freedom has a price!
scandiman
8th Mar 2018
1
Thanks for voting!
I see from news reports that we’ve agreed to Eu fishermen having reciprocal fishing rights in our waters. Another example of our government and its ‘tough’ negotiating. Why don’t we just get it over with and hand over our entire financial sector and industry to Europe. We cave in at every opportunity. Oh, wait a minute, we can’t do that with the financial sector can we, it’ll hurt our chums in the City. Fishermen and factory workers from oop north can suffer, but not the City, oh no.
Lionel
8th Mar 2018
2
Thanks for voting!
Scandiman, I believe the extent to which we depart the EU was determined within weeks of the Referendum. You may recall in those days, say 3 or 4 months after the vote, little or nothing was understood to be happening. Perhaps it was happening, and subsequent events are just a political charade designed to blind the public to a very nasty truth - neither in nor out. Still paying in, still under e etc., but without any voting rights.
scandiman
11th Mar 2018
2
Thanks for voting!
I think you’re right. It was assumed we would choose to stay,and the result was a surprise which no-one had prepared for. Cameron sulked and resigned, leaving us with May, who is no doubt a charming woman, but not a negotiator, any more than he was. I think they’re just playing for time, and we’ll end up with a compromise. It will do enormous harm to public trust.
Lionel
11th Mar 2018
0
Thanks for voting!
Three months after the Referendum I was on Jury Service, again. At the end of the first week only one of the four courts was sitting so about twenty of us gathered in a huddle in the Jury lounge. Ordinary people, middle class housewives, plumbers, electricians, a businessman and a vet. No young folk in that group.

Someone struck up a conversation about the Referendum, just to pass the time I think. We discussed how the EU had adversely affect our lives; how we felt, as you say, Britons but not Europeans. Within half an hour of calm, rational debate between us all it was becoming clear to me, usually a moderate, that this nation was looking at ferocious civil unrest if leaving the EU was fudged in any way.

Yes, a random ordinary people I would happily invite for dinner at my home.

Not one of those twenty people had any trust in the government, Mrs May or the Civil Service to deliver a true Brexit - restoration of our relationship with the EU prior to joining the Common Market. Those who were Remainers saw trouble on the streets if we left the EU. We Leavers saw the same thing if we stayed.

Ordinary people, just like me, leading unremarkable lives ...
scandiman
6th Mar 2018
0
Thanks for voting!
Skilled negotiators have an effective tactic. If you don’t make progress, walk away. The EU and Eire will soon come running. Every time we suggest anything the response is never anything constructive, just ‘no’. There is never a helpful alternative suggested. They should be told that we’ll talk when they are willing to be reasonable. No more careful diplomatic language, smiles and handshakes. It won’t happen though, because politicians are involved. We’re creeping towards being not quite out and a bit in, the EU. So the tedious farce drags on. Meanwhile Corbyn and rebel Tories are determined to stop it anyway.
jeaniembe
5th Mar 2018
0
Thanks for voting!
I'm more concerned about never getting away from the EU and our MPs from all parties who are trying their hardest to bring this country to it's knees.
shrew1742
3rd Mar 2018
1
Thanks for voting!
A NOTE TO THE EDITOR................ As we are 'British' before we are European would it not be better if the photograph with this article had the Union flag LARGER than the EU flag ??? Just a thought !!!
Lionel
1st Mar 2018
1
Thanks for voting!
It seems to me tonight, after watching the news, we're gonna be out of the EU sooner than expected.

As Varoufakis warned, the EU doesn't negotiate, it just demands, and we Brits will negotiate but demanding of us is different territory, dangerous territory.

It's going to be a hard Brexit and deep shame for so many remainers.
viking
27th Feb 2018
3
Thanks for voting!
Yes Yoddy, I think this section has been infiltrated, judging by the ferocity of a certain contributor.
How nice it is to have memories that are conveniently short !
Was it our dear Dave who went to Brussels and wanted some reform of the obscene waste of money by the EEC. He returned with a flea in his ear and was humiliated by the junta for even suggesting that they waste money ?
If the EEC had even made some sort of gesture on this matter, there would never have been a vote to stay or leave. It was the spiteful, intransigentness of the junta which tweaked the nose of the British bulldog.
1BA
26th Feb 2018
4
Thanks for voting!
As we are as I write this still in the EU nobody really knows what the economic hit if their is one will be. All those on the side of remaining are all doom and gloom. While the Brexiters are all bout the positives. Their should be no second referendum that is not how democracy works. Member of Parliamnet on all sides should for once get of there lazy backsides work together to get this Country the best deal possible form the EU. Will they do that ,will they hell they are so selfish they only care about their own opinions and furthering there own political ambitions that the needs of the Country are the least of there concerns. A good deal is possible but not while our MP S behave like spolit children. Every one has different opinions , but should work together to get the job done.
[deleted]
26th Feb 2018
0
Thanks for voting!
1BA
27th Feb 2018
2
Thanks for voting!
I think that both the EU and the Government need to get a dictionary and look up the meaning of the word negotiations. At the moment it has more to do with bullying than any form of negotiation.
[deleted]
28th Feb 2018
1
Thanks for voting!
Lionel
1st Mar 2018
0
Thanks for voting!
I believe before long we will need a government of national unity, as in WW2. So many of our MPs and Civil Servants are against Brexit because they have personal vested interests. It's going to be national unity or get out and go somewhere else. No, a retainer MP won't be persona grata much longer.

Brexit will happen, and will bring about a major shakeup in this nation, a long overdue shakeup. This will be very good and healthy for our nation but remaining in the EU, even by a whisker, will continue the destruction of Britain.

That we cannot allow.
1BA
2nd Mar 2018
0
Thanks for voting!
Yes you are right as all newspapers have their own agenda. I must admit I cancelled all the papers during the last election and never bothered reordering them. My 97 year told me years ago the only thing he believed in the papers was the date printed on the front page.
Yodama
25th Feb 2018
5
Thanks for voting!
I have wondered from time to time why it is that we are asked to vote on certain subjects on Silversurfers. Is it not enough to just voice your opinion?
Are we being led or herded like animals in a vast Pavlovian experiment?
The green and red thumbs up or down would indicate to some that a particular post is popular or unpopular regardless of its veracity or import thereby causing a shift in voting.

Since the pressing of the thumbs up or down is anonymous, I ask the question...who is pressing the buttons? Wide open to manipulation I would think.
Are "they" or "them", infiltrating this social website to swing public opinion in the desired direction?
Are we being trained to "love our servitude" when in the future, we are finally controlled by the Superstate Dictatorship?
The British Lion is losing its roar and its teeth.
Dissent and free speech will be a thing of the past.

Hypnopedia persists, continuous brainwashing via Media, Internet, big Pharma and various other instruments.
Why are we sleepwalking into the jaws of servitude?

And yes, I do expect a rash of red thumbs downs.
0
Thanks for voting!
Interesting question Yodama ... the polls are meant to be a way of getting an overall view from our members on a current topic, some light-hearted and others more serious such as this one. There is no secret motive ... just a litmus paper type poll which seems to be a popular way to allow members of our community to show how they feel about a topic with a simple click. Some members prefer a tick box option than to express their views so it gives all a chance to engage as they wish to. Sally 🙂
Lionel
25th Feb 2018
0
Thanks for voting!
No red thumb from me!
Yodama
25th Feb 2018
0
Thanks for voting!
Thank you for your reassurance Sally.
I can see there are some very strong feelings over this subject, perhaps why we should question more deeply. There is a tremendous amount at stake so deeper questions need to be asked and examined.

A litmus test as you know produces a decisive result by measuring a single indicator.
What are the indicators, the vote or the thumbs up or down? We need to ask the questions.
Bridget 🙂
[deleted]
26th Feb 2018
0
Thanks for voting!
Lionel
1st Mar 2018
-1
Thanks for voting!
Yes, Cameron did change matters with the Referendum and it was so much overdue.

But let it be said here, we Brits voted out and I don't think any nation will again mess about with us.

If so many remainers don't like the decision, don't like a democratic value then head for Europe because we don't need you.

I make no apology for being a hard line Brit!
viking
24th Feb 2018
2
Thanks for voting!
Be forced into a Federal Europe by staying in- no thanks.
Just in case the Remoners think that this is fake news- the "white paper" has all ready been published by the EEC.
Unfortunately my family was demolished by the same people who now will rule us if we stay in.
Lionel
24th Feb 2018
2
Thanks for voting!
Yes, Viking, my distant family were also demolished by the country that now leads the EU. They even destroyed all recorded trace of them.
Lionel
23rd Feb 2018
-3
Thanks for voting!
I see the Soros paid trolls are on night shift again.

Prostitutes do stuff for the money.

So do trolls.
MarilynHs
23rd Feb 2018
5
Thanks for voting!
I personally can see no benefit whatsoever in leaving the EU. I also wish that just One Brexiteer could describe a workable, acceptable solution to the opposing demands of Brexit and the Good Friday Agreement. Any offers?
Oldblue
23rd Feb 2018
-1
Thanks for voting!
Lionel
1st Mar 2018
0
Thanks for voting!
No, I won't make an offer on that one.

I lived and worked in both Eire and Ulster in the late eighties. Spent a lot of time becoming acquainted with all three sides of the dispute.

The Good Friday Agreement is typical of Blair, lies, lies and more lies. Therefore it cannot stand the test of stress or time.

All three sides have a point, I can't deny that. But all three sides depend of a Bible interpretation which suits their convenience.

Until all three sides espouse a true Biblical Christ there can be no solution. They are using a convenient interpretation of the Scripture and the Church for their own ends.

What do I mean by that? For thirty years Catholics bombed Protestants in the name of Jesus. Protestants bombed and killed Catholics in His Name. People were assassinated, maimed and horribly intimidated in His Name.

Or is it not all in His Name. Is this just another religious territorial war enacted in the name of Christ? Yes, it is.

With the above in mind, let's not assume anything Blair did could ever prosper.

In Acts Gamaliel, who taught a young Paul, said, if this thing (an emergent Christianity) is of God it will prosper. If it is not it will die.

The Good Friday Agreement has been in decay for years.

Ask yourself, what good, this is eternal good, has the EU done for Eire or Ulster?

I put it to you, none! Therefore the Good Friday Agreement is not worth the paper it's written on.
jeaniembe
5th Mar 2018
0
Thanks for voting!
I can see no benefit of remaining.
jeaniembe
5th Mar 2018
0
Thanks for voting!
I can see no benefits to remaining.
PeterJ57
23rd Feb 2018
0
Thanks for voting!
The scaremongering continues we will prosper once we leave that is if we leave
CardinalB
23rd Feb 2018
1
Thanks for voting!
hahaha.

You hope! Your grandchildren will hate what you have done.

And your children wont be happy either.

Not good to p off the offspring. They'll be choosing your care home!
Oldblue
23rd Feb 2018
3
Thanks for voting!
Look at the reality of what's is happening now with the threat of leaving. How can we possibly prosper? We are set to leave the best trading deal the world has ever known.
PeterJ57
24th Feb 2018
1
Thanks for voting!
You know nothing about my grandchildren or children
Huguenot
23rd Feb 2018
7
Thanks for voting!
The losses we will sustain are already visible. The advantages still, after all this time, are not. I am 70 but still working. Both for my own work and the opportunities the EU offers to my children and grandchildren, I want Brexit to be abandoned. Freedom of movement is a two-way traffic!
Oldblue
23rd Feb 2018
0
Thanks for voting!
martash
23rd Feb 2018
1
Thanks for voting!
The so called experts, have not been right about anything so far, why should we believe them now,. Of course some business will lose but just as many will gain. If we carry on as we are, we'll end up bankrupt and we'll end up like Greece and all benefits will stop. Although that might be a good thing, as long as the 'real sick and disabled' don't suffer.
ChrisF152
23rd Feb 2018
3
Thanks for voting!
ALL the assessments show the same results. They cannot all be wrong. Leaving the EU will be bad for our economy and our society.
IanT4
23rd Feb 2018
3
Thanks for voting!
all the experts have been proved correct - we have not left the EU yet but the pound has dropped in value, companies have begun to move to Europe and have stopped plans to invest. WE now face labour shortages. Two years of detailed planning and 40 years of working on it and there is still no detail about what it means just fantasy about what we would like to happen. you have been lied to
CardinalB
23rd Feb 2018
3
Thanks for voting!
Are you qualified to make that unsubstantiated wild guess?

I suspect not. I don't know where you get the idea from.

Only Minford is proven wrong. And he is paid by the Tory party.

The money is moving to the Continent. Some of it is already there now...... and we haven't left yet.

Every business tool showing the impact of Brexit has been proven correct. You won't like it. Time for us to know the truth.
Oldblue
23rd Feb 2018
0
Thanks for voting!
Yes they have! Look at facts rather than listening to stupid rhetoric.
CardinalB
23rd Feb 2018
3
Thanks for voting!
Go on then. Show some facts then. Use any Economic source you like, from anywhere in the world; and use any variant of applied Economics, and any projections you can justify.


There is no prosperous Brexit.

You will not be able to support your statement. You will not be able to show any opportunity we don't already have.
ChristopherF
23rd Feb 2018
-1
Thanks for voting!
martash
24th Feb 2018
0
Thanks for voting!
JoN95
23rd Feb 2018
3
Thanks for voting!
I had planned to retire to Spain. My partner is younger than me so we can't do it yet. I don't think we will be able to afford it after Brexit as health insurance for 2x over 60s with chronic health conditions won't be able to get affordable health care, evenue if they can get residency. So much for a healthier, happier retirement. After a life of helping others (he works in mental health).
CardinalB
23rd Feb 2018
3
Thanks for voting!
Your villa would be 20% more expensive now thanks to the exchange rate. And your pension 20% less when exchanged into foreign currency. Brexit did that.
SueS92
23rd Feb 2018
6
Thanks for voting!
My concerns are purely selfish. I am attended by a team of care staff because I have MS. My care staff are all from within Europe because UK aren't interested in this work or at the money!!
JoN95
23rd Feb 2018
4
Thanks for voting!
My mum would not have had carers without wonderful polish girls. Until the GP pronounced that she was dying, I could not get any support from care agencies - no capacity, EU workers going home, local people not applying. In the future, someone in her position could end up in hospital rather than staying at home.
VanessaM1
23rd Feb 2018
3
Thanks for voting!
Savvy investors have been shifting their investments away from uk based companies because they are worried about what is coming and trying to limit the damage.

Companies here under government incentive schemes for access to the European market will leave. We will lose our main revenue generating industry, financial services - companies will move their base and pay their taxes elsewhere. Many depend on imported goods so prices will rise and so will red tape. Food might be a critical issue with importing, inflation and picking problems.

We are likely to have a long recession while the rest of the world has good growth. Our children will lose out and so will we financially, and in terms of the character of the country as a forward looking liberal democracy. Instead we will be embracing the blinkered attitudes and accepting bigots’ logic.
Gingernut49
23rd Feb 2018
3
Thanks for voting!
I commented on this post on the Silversurfers FB group as I am totally opposed to Brexit. I wasn't rude at all, just stated a different point of view.
I discovered this morning that I have been blocked from commenting on that post - or any other!
Democratic? I don't think so.
Apparently if your opinion differs you are blocked.
I'm absolutely outraged.
heathergail
23rd Feb 2018
0
Thanks for voting!
BrianDeVie
23rd Feb 2018
1
Thanks for voting!
I have heard of many being blocked on the SS-FB page.
Thank you for not giving up and comeing here.

I believe the silencing of opposition is moraly wrong as well as undemocratic.
Sadly it seems the nation is following May's stance on democracy, the stance she took when she waved goodby to UK democracy nearly a year ago.
A stance which is allowing OUR soveriegnty to be removed from OUR Representatives in OUR Parliament and given to 'her' government. 🙁
martash
24th Feb 2018
2
Thanks for voting!
You should be allowed your opinion, we all should.
That's what we have always fought for in this wonderful country of ours.
Must be wonderful, everyone wants to come here.
Gingernut49
24th Feb 2018
0
Thanks for voting!
Fortunately I emailed them and was unblocked! 🙂
3
Thanks for voting!
Silversurfers is very open for all to express their views and are very objective, balanced and impartial. Our Facebook community page is designed to foster friendships, based on trust, honesty, integrity and loyalty and is underpinned by these values. There is a fine line between what we find acceptable in terms of tone of comment and perhaps our admin team were being cautious.

We welcome everyone's point of view, but try to keep Silversurfers Facebook page a friendly and safe place to comment, unlike the majority of Facebook communities who are less rigorous than we are.
Gingernut49
24th Feb 2018
1
Thanks for voting!
Thank you for responding. Fortunately I wrote an email to Silversurfers and was unblocked.
It just goes to show what a contentious issue Brexit is, which has unfortunately divided the country, and families.
It's the worst thing that's happened in my lifetime and I'm dreadfully depressed about it.
mrp
1st Mar 2018
0
Thanks for voting!
obviously the "the people" do not like opposition or contra thinking
Kevin1878
23rd Feb 2018
1
Thanks for voting!
I feel Brexit is a big mistake and it was voted for reasons other than economics
heathergail
23rd Feb 2018
0
Thanks for voting!
That's because economics were glossed over by the Leaver EU campaign. They said it would all be great and that we would not be leaving the single market. It was all lies. I know that now but some of my friends are having a problem with that. Most of them didn't know what the single market and customs union were back then. Had those impact assessments which the government have done their best to hide - been done back then - make no mistake there would have been a massive vote against Brexit on the subject of economics.
JulesC3
23rd Feb 2018
3
Thanks for voting!
Brexit is sucking the air out of British Politics. It is an impossible circle to square but we feel that we must continue as it is the 'Will of the People'. I'd like to know what risk assessments & impact studies were produced before Parliament voted to grant the People an in-out referendum in the first place!
heathergail
23rd Feb 2018
0
Thanks for voting!
None. None were done directly after the vote either. That is what I said in my comment above. Had the country have known all this prior to the vote - it wouldn't have happened.
JohnP99
23rd Feb 2018
4
Thanks for voting!
My friend's daughter in the civil service says it will cost an absolute fortune to replace all the shared EU treaties with complex British Red tape over the next 20 years. In the meantime my son is seeing his whole sector in pharmaceuticals move to the EU. Of course we are worried about this now. We were told it would just require grit. Now he's got to find a new career and retrain. It's bad enough losing a job, but an entire line of work?

Why were we not told what Brexit was? They must have known!
Mchwheels
23rd Feb 2018
4
Thanks for voting!
John, my daughter (in the Treasury) is telling me the same! I also have real concerns not just over the cost but the time it will take. Working in compliance closely with our product regulations, I really cant see how we can alter all these from the EU model in time
IanT4
23rd Feb 2018
1
Thanks for voting!
EU regulations are minimum standards - we could always have better. Its all lies and fantasy from the wreckers.
Oldblue
23rd Feb 2018
0
Thanks for voting!
They knew full well, they openly lied about the benefits of leaving, there are none.
CardinalB
23rd Feb 2018
1
Thanks for voting!
When was the last time tbis Government made ANY lives better? Everything is cut, cut, cut. Cheapest possible cost for everything for us, but only the best for themselves. The publically owned East Coast Rail line was making a profit, so they gave it to Branson. Fares up, service down, run into bankruptcy in two years. The taxpayer has had to pick up the loss.

Enjoy your Chlorinated chicken.
ChristopherF
23rd Feb 2018
0
Thanks for voting!
That would just make our products too expensive. I agree the Brexshit wreckers live in a fantasy world of fear and dreams.
scandiman
22nd Feb 2018
5
Thanks for voting!
I find mrp’s comment on here frankly offensive. I’m rather tired of being told I’m a Brexit oaf and that I was peddled lies. Until we can have some mature, erudite and reasoned discussion here, I shall comment no further.
mrp
1st Mar 2018
0
Thanks for voting!
, Well Mr scandiman maybe i hit a nerve, anyone who wants to remain in europe and has not been brainwashed by the manipulating tax exiled right wing press is accused of being a traitor and i find that offensive. This country is split down the middle on the biggest issue this country has faced since WW2. I believe in a europe where we have seen no conflicts and bloodshed for generations, a europe where this country has prospered culturally and financially. There are many flaws in the EU, but when you see the buffoons like BoJo, Fox, ReesMogg trying to herd us over the cliff i would rather go back to the EU and propose a new relationship where the UK sits at the top table, this country should be a pro active and enlightened leader instead of spending the last 40 years being in europe and trying to opt out, quite bizarre how now they want to leave and opt in.
EileenE8
22nd Feb 2018
-2
Thanks for voting!
I am fed up with the scare mongering that is going on; what about the benefits, ok there will likely be short term costs, but there will be long term gains. That is if the parliament and population get behind the government - There is a bigger world out there than the EU, I for one cannot wait for us to get out the and to be able to trade effectively and efficiently - the EU are neither effective or efficient - they are an ineffective, poor performing unit - the future is not to be within the EU but outside.
Lionel
22nd Feb 2018
2
Thanks for voting!
So well said. I'm with you.
Arghiro
22nd Feb 2018
8
Thanks for voting!
We already trade with the whole world. There is no country we cannot trade with. what's even better is the fact that as a group of 28 nations we have far better deals than we will ever get as a single small nation.

The EU is actually more democratic AND efficient than the UK is - by any measure you care to mention. They are also performing far better than the UK since the referendum too. Prior to the referendum we were one of the fastest growing economies in the EU. Now we have the lowest growth - lower even than Greece, Italy of Portugal.

You are being consistently fed lies by the tax avoiding billionaires that fund and promote the leave campaign. Please check out the figures for yourself.
JohnB24
23rd Feb 2018
0
Thanks for voting!
please tell me, with some evidence, what these gains will be?
DaveS3
23rd Feb 2018
1
Thanks for voting!
It would be good to hear some specific long term gains, as I personally don't see any. And don't tell me we can do more trade with China because we already could as the Germans have shown!
IanT4
23rd Feb 2018
0
Thanks for voting!
There are no long terms gains of walking away from the market for 50% of your exports. The EU is the richest single market in the world and their growth rate is now faster than the UK's
Irene88
23rd Feb 2018
-1
Thanks for voting!
Freedom to make own laws. Freedom to ignore EU so called standards that most of the other nations ignore.

Freedom to spend our taxes on what we want rather than what the EU thinks we should subsidise.

Freedom to control our borders.

The EU is an institution that is corrupt and spends too much money on it's staff and their perks. Any idea of how much it cost to keep moving the EU bureacracy from Brussels to Strasbourg and back?
Do you know how much an MEP is paid comp[ared to our MP's.

I don't want to bore you all, but I could talk on this subject for hours. arters I suggest you start here https://fullfact.org/europe/how-eu-works-who-runs-eu/
JohnB24
23rd Feb 2018
1
Thanks for voting!
EU standards are some of the best in the world People like Rees Mogg will have us lowering our standards to the likes of India
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-safety-standards-workers-rights-jacob-rees-mogg-a7459336.html

WE have freedom on how to spend our taxes but it's controlled by the government hence the state of the NHS

We have always had the right to control our borders the UK decided not to apply EU controls as they do in other EU countries.

Your corruption claim is spurious you can't back it up with any proof.

Can't comment on the MEP salary but they are elected and are supposed to do a big job, although some, like Farage, don't do the job they are paid to do. If you pay peanuts you get monkies, but unfortunately we still did with the UKIP MEP's
Wilf
23rd Feb 2018
1
Thanks for voting!
I am not sure you are correct in UKs right to control borders. especially with respect to the EU countries that has been the contentious issue throughout the life of the EU
JohnB24
23rd Feb 2018
3
Thanks for voting!
I live in Slovenia. I was subject to these laws.
I could stay in the country for 90 days then I had to report to the police station every week, proving I had somewhere to stay, had the means to support myself and had medical cover.

I now have temporary residency for 5 years but have to report to the authorities every year. and again I had to prove I had an address, can support myself and have medical cover.

If I have a job and pay tax and social contributions I can have use of the health service here. As soon as I stop paying I lose the service.

The UK could always done this, it is within EU law, but chose not to.
JohnB24
23rd Feb 2018
3
Thanks for voting!
I also lived in Croatia for 2 years and the conditions are exactly the same as Slovenia.
Oldblue
23rd Feb 2018
3
Thanks for voting!
What benefits? There are none! We already trade with the rest of the world now in the EU, this was another Brexit lie, we have very favourable deals with 57 other countries,
CardinalB
23rd Feb 2018
3
Thanks for voting!
Long term gains can only come from Opportunity.

If we leave the EU our single biggest, closest and most prosperous customer will be thrown away.

There is no better market for us than that. It's half of everything we earn.

And as a part of that 500m person economic unit we get access to every nation worth trading with on terms much better than we can get as a 67m island.

There is no long term prosperity. You are dreaming.
CardinalB
23rd Feb 2018
2
Thanks for voting!
Well said. That is so true. Somebody is making a lot of money out of Brexit. But it isnt us. All the millionaire tax avoiding politicians and media owners are crying out for it.

62 Tory MPs are trying to dictate our future for their own self-serving ends. And yet they decry European Democracy as they continue to bully Brexit through while hiding money offshore.

Meanwhile we can't get the Health Care and Social care we have paid for all our lives.
CardinalB
23rd Feb 2018
1
Thanks for voting!
You won't get an answer. There aren't any
CardinalB
23rd Feb 2018
2
Thanks for voting!
So who slipped in Universal Credit, ATOS and PIP when our backs were turned. Not the EU. Which Lawmakers were censured by the UN for breaching the human rights of the Disabled? Ours, that's who. Which lawmakers are committed to repealing the EU Working Time Directive in favour of the "Gig" economy?

Not only do we already make our own laws, including many oppressive statutes which have been successfully challenged in the courts, but we - currently - have a veto for anything we dont like.

We don't control our borders because it costs too much money. Like everything else, we pay lots of taxes but get the cheapest service there is. We have 3 vessels to protect our entire coastline from illegal migrants landing by sea. THREE. Italy has 600. France has 40.

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/674988/Britain-three-boats-stop-migrants-reaching-UK

I agree about the EU gravy train. Farage has trousered €2m from us. And he never turns up! His poor attendance record is only beaten by one MEP - and that guy is undergoing long term hospital treatment.

But our MPs are no better. Westminster is as corrupt as they come. When Osborne sold off the Royal Mail at a discount, his mate and Best Man at his wedding made a personal gain of £6m. For no risk. The hedge fund he manages made £100m on the privatisation. That's not decent.

But at least the MEPs deliverered prosperity and better lives for their citizens. Our Government kills us off. 120,000 deaths accirding to independent research.
CardinalB
23rd Feb 2018
0
Thanks for voting!
That's more Farage/Boris bull. I hate it that they would lie to us over such an important thing.

We've always been in charge of our borders, we just never bothered to spend money on policing them.

Here is the truth.

https://fullfact.org/europe/border-security-eu/
BrianDeVie
24th Feb 2018
-2
Thanks for voting!
Well said and factualy accurate.
martash
24th Feb 2018
0
Thanks for voting!
Hear, hear Eileen, well done.
martash
24th Feb 2018
1
Thanks for voting!
I didn't know that. Why on earth have we not got the system.
Many including me, would look at immigration in a different way if it wasn't costing us so much. Too many unemployed immigrants in our country.
JohnB24
24th Feb 2018
1
Thanks for voting!
This is the tragedy of the immigration argument with regard to brexit, it never had to happen, at least with EU citizens, immigrants from outside the EU are a different matter, and nothing to do with the EU.
mrp
1st Mar 2018
0
Thanks for voting!
how much does Farage earn as an MEP? now that is corrupt. How many 10s of billions are sheltered in offshore accounts by the elite, denying this country taxes? that is corrupt. All the ultra Brexiteers are proposing is corrupt, there will be no material gain for the normal person in this country, in fact the British elite will get richer, that is the most corrupt fact about this car crash
roysplace
22nd Feb 2018
0
Thanks for voting!
There are 500 million people (of which 70 are British)in the EU and 7 billion in the world. If you were a business wouldn’t you want to be able to trade with as many as possible? There will be winners and losers from leaving the EU, but I think the ones who benefit most from the EU are the ones who don’t want to leave
CardinalB
22nd Feb 2018
9
Thanks for voting!
The 500m Eu customers are 20 miles away. Have no tariff barriers or customs delay. Have no cultural barriers to our products. Are wealthy and have a high disposable income.

Do you really think you can compete with China, Malaysia, Korea or Vietnam? You would be trying to compete with workers earning $145 A MONTH.

When I worked in International Business you picked your market by opportunity, not fantasy. So Sweden could afford any number of domestic air conditioners, but it wasn't hot enough to need them; Libya would welcome any number of domestic air conditioners, but had insufficient wealth to buy them. Yet by your opinion they would both be opportunities.

We can already sell to the world on WTO or better tetms, btw, by Remaining in the EU.

Opportunity, not geography. Close, nit distant. Especially for services.
Lionel
22nd Feb 2018
1
Thanks for voting!
Well said, I agree.
Wilf
22nd Feb 2018
-4
Thanks for voting!
Very true-only point I would make if we have low tarrifs ourselves then others will want to sell to the UK and our imports will be cheaper. Also if we have a cheap pound our exports will be cheaper. Could be a win win
Arghiro
22nd Feb 2018
6
Thanks for voting!
those who benefit from leave are the billionaire tax avoiders and the Business owners & Landlords looking to exploit workers, tenants & pollute our country following Rees-Mogg's much lauded "bonfire of regulations"
JohnB24
23rd Feb 2018
3
Thanks for voting!
So how does that benefit UK citizens. More import of cheap goods damages UK industries, lower value of the pound means less buying power of imported goods.
It's a vicious circle, and at the moment we are protected by the EU.
Wilf
23rd Feb 2018
4
Thanks for voting!
The lower pound gives our exporters a boost but I agree it makes imports more expensive like food and fuel. It is a viscious circle
IanT4
23rd Feb 2018
3
Thanks for voting!
It is not number that matters is it? It is purchasing power and access. The rich and the market live in Europe, close to us. We could and do trade with the rest, as does the rest of the world, already.
Wilf
24th Feb 2018
2
Thanks for voting!
We could always trade with the rest of the world anyway. Nothing stopped us..We trade with China, Russia and India today
roysplace
24th Feb 2018
-1
Thanks for voting!
Everyone is still thinking about their own point of view. Personally I would rather have the option to vote in or out , the people who control my life. That won’t happen in the EU. No one knows what trade will be like in 10 years far less 50 years, but the decisions will have been made by us right or wrong.
Wilf
24th Feb 2018
0
Thanks for voting!
Yes you are right. History will show if Brexit was right or wrong. Only looking back in about 2050 will tell us the answer
CardinalB
22nd Feb 2018
10
Thanks for voting!
It's scary and very stressful. My life savings are worth a lot less than 2 years ago thanks to the £ falling. Everything I buy has gone up so much, and as a pensioner I can't replace what I spend.

We were promised all sorts, but in 18 months things have gone from bad to worse. What happened to this Great nation? I feel betrayed.

End this stupid Brexit farce. Most people don't want it any more. The tail is wagging the dog.
Lionel
22nd Feb 2018
-4
Thanks for voting!
Most people? I think you mean you.
Wilf
22nd Feb 2018
-2
Thanks for voting!
We are still the 5/6th largest economy globally. Everyone forgets this. We are also still a beacon of moderation and law in the world
BrianD5
22nd Feb 2018
3
Thanks for voting!
"End this stupid Brexit farce. Most people don't want it any more. The tail is wagging the dog."

Well said, it is the most vulnerible in our society that will pay for this insane fiasco.

Remember only 25.8% of the UK population voted for any form of Brexit.
Now the realities are being revealed [even without the imaginary 58 impact reports that DD failed to do, let alone shared], it is blatently obvious that there are no benefits which can justify the Social, Cultural and Political costs and hence as you say:
Most people do not want brexit [in any shape or form], any more.
BrianDeVie
22nd Feb 2018
1
Thanks for voting!
PaulK19
23rd Feb 2018
4
Thanks for voting!
Sadly we have slipped to 7th

The bottom of the G7

Given what I see going on I doubt very much we are still that
beacon of trust and fair play.
Wilf
23rd Feb 2018
0
Thanks for voting!
I think we are still at 6. We are as free as the other major economies of Western Europe and still a beacon of hope which is reflected in so many people wanting to come to the UK
IanT4
23rd Feb 2018
2
Thanks for voting!
which we achieved inside the EU
Irene88
23rd Feb 2018
-3
Thanks for voting!
Think you find most people voted leave. I don't know anyone young are old, who voted remain.
heathergail
23rd Feb 2018
1
Thanks for voting!
Millions feel betrayed. I do my family and friends do. They would all vote remain tomorrow. The government are frankly to blame for all of this. The legal cases to come will highlight that very fact whether they win or lose. It should stop now. It is wasting money the country cannot afford.
heathergail
23rd Feb 2018
1
Thanks for voting!
No - most people. It cant be a surprise to you that with the government in the state it is in, and the impact assessments saying what we already knew - that most people are not deaf dumb and blind. Most people have never seen such a holy mess in their lifetimes. Matters not what you voted. What it was before the vote was a mess and it is a massively bigger one now. No one would have voted to make their situation worse, if given all the facts.
BrianDeVie
23rd Feb 2018
2
Thanks for voting!
I'm old enough to remember voting remain in 1975, along with 67% .
I consider that a decisive vote as opposed to this 2016 divisive vote of 48/52.
The government saught our Opinion, that opinion has been expressed and if people are honest, they will acknowledge that it simply confirms we are a divided nation.
I for one do not consider that a divided nation should willingly undertake major constitutional change, to do so is pure folly.

Current polls, now clearly show that the 'will of the people' is now reacting to the realities of what brexit [still undefind] and it's consequences might be. The 'will of the people is now 'Remain'.
JohnB24
23rd Feb 2018
0
Thanks for voting!
SueR89
22nd Feb 2018
-3
Thanks for voting!
The fiscal predictions from the treasury and other "knowledgeable" groups have fallen very short of being right. Many businesses welcome the chance to come out from under the eu' thumb.
SteveK5
22nd Feb 2018
4
Thanks for voting!
Unfortunately, that "thumb" is protecting us from rampant exploitation by some businesses. There are companies that cannot wait to take safety shortcuts, increase working hours, stop holiday pay, sack women who get pregnant or any worker that gets ill, increase driving hours - or they may just stop dealing with waste safely & polluting the environment.

Are you sure you can trust big business to be able to operate without regulation? Their track record is not good - that's why the regulations were implemented in the first place.
CardinalB
22nd Feb 2018
4
Thanks for voting!
AllI read about are businesses leavi g the UK and sacking their staff. We sell much much more to the EU than we do to any other market.
Lionel
22nd Feb 2018
-5
Thanks for voting!
Yp, day by day more businesses see their market as the world, not an over developed protectionist market. Well said.
Wilf
22nd Feb 2018
-1
Thanks for voting!
Our governments should have the regulations to sort this out.
Arghiro
22nd Feb 2018
6
Thanks for voting!
Brexit is about getting rid of ALL regulations - check out what Rees-Mogg really stands for, it really isn't very nice!
Wilf
22nd Feb 2018
1
Thanks for voting!
But that is called Anarchy! The gov has said it will abide by a lot of the EU laws anyway
Mchwheels
23rd Feb 2018
2
Thanks for voting!
Wilf, I really hope these will be sorted out, but I work with many UK product regulations, all based on EU directives and regulations. Nearly all of these depend on EU institutions to function correctly and all will result in additional red tape (not less) once we leave. Only when we significantly re-write them all will we have ones that are more efficient and/or less demanding. This will both take many many years (they havent even started yet) and cost a lot to set up UK equivalent systems. I cant see any benefit from reducing the requirements (they are all good) but I guess many will argue for this.
Wilf
23rd Feb 2018
0
Thanks for voting!
Thanks Mchwheels. very interesting. So it begs the question why dont the UK Government just leave the same regulations in place and just use them for solus UK regulations as well?
IanT4
23rd Feb 2018
2
Thanks for voting!
You do not seem to have read the treasury report which created several scenarios and has been seen to be broadly correct even though Brexit has not yet happened and we are still operating within the EU.

Neither do you seem to know of the CBI views, the views of the automobile manufacturing companies, japanese industries who are here because of access to the EU and incentives. Most UK industry has no contact with the EU and being out will for those that do will mean they will have to continue to meet EU requitrements, but have no say in what they are
IanT4
23rd Feb 2018
1
Thanks for voting!
and so they are taking away my rights because?
Irene88
23rd Feb 2018
-1
Thanks for voting!
I thought there was a bill going through parliament absorbing EU law into our law at one go so that we can sort it out into how we want it? Law making in UK will be much quicker than EU method when 28 nations have to agree and it takes years and UK views are usually vetoed through the majority voting system.
Wilf
23rd Feb 2018
-1
Thanks for voting!
I am not sure your rights are being taken away by anyone. The UK is a democracy and so is the EU and the western powers. The Uk will remain so and hopefully the EU will also. By the way I voted to stay in as its the least risk to stay in as we are but I do not think we will suffer hugely by being outside.
Wilf
23rd Feb 2018
0
Thanks for voting!
I believe you are right Irene. That is my point if we have the Uks and current EU laws built on top plus any new laws will at least be just for the UK.
BrianDeVie
23rd Feb 2018
0
Thanks for voting!
Many aspects of EU laws/rules are being excluded. ie Animals are granted the status of sentient beings by the EU, this is specificaly being excluded from the 'transfer'.
I know it is only one minor example, but there are many others and this one applies not just to your 'pets' but also to your food. It's obviously needed so we can import US meats etc. 🙁
IanT4
23rd Feb 2018
2
Thanks for voting!
1. You are completely wrong about "usually vetoed". We have led the EU creating many of the laws and policies (see for instance http://theconversation.com/fact-check-does-britain-get-its-way-at-the-european-top-table-58610

2. I currently have the right to live and work in the EU. I have the right to travel unfetted across EU boundaries, to use health care under the reciprical agreement, and claim benefits where appropriate. Non of these or other benefits are guaranteed in the future and are very much in doubt.

3. In my view, all the evidence points to a loss of considerable advantages of membership, which is why all the other states are in the EU and not one has left. The scenario as with the 1960's and 1970's points to 40-50 years of relative decline as they get richer and we stagnate. You cannot leave a 500million wealthy free trade market and replace it by an already exploited larger but poorer complex market with hundreds of different tarde deals overnight.
Wilf
23rd Feb 2018
-1
Thanks for voting!
How do you know they will get richer. germany will. The "Pigs"? I cannot see them getting richer. Also we will still trade with the EU we are not being completly cut off from it on day zero
Wilf
23rd Feb 2018
-1
Thanks for voting!
Which rights are they taking away? I repeat the Uk and Western powers are democracies
IanT4
23rd Feb 2018
1
Thanks for voting!
oh please- its above
Wilf
23rd Feb 2018
-1
Thanks for voting!
It may be but how do you know they will not be guaranteed. This is the issue neither you or anyone else knows what will happen until its all agreed
PhilipL9
22nd Feb 2018
-2
Thanks for voting!
If it results in our economy to tank which I believe it will at least it will serve the purpose of getting rid of this lousy Tory government . A big but nessessary price to pay I'm afraid !
CardinalB
22nd Feb 2018
7
Thanks for voting!
Rubbish! They will just blame somebody else while they furtively count their huge tax sheltered wealth! Its you and I who will be paying for it, make no mistake.
Wilf
22nd Feb 2018
2
Thanks for voting!
Problem is I do not think a Labour government would do much better. What amazing policies would they come up with to positively propel the wealth of the Brits?
Irene88
23rd Feb 2018
0
Thanks for voting!
It's the 'lousy Tory government' that has had to deal with massive debts accquired by the 'so called labour party" Bit of a misnomer as they don't know what labour (or should I say work) is!

Nationalising everything doesn't solve problems it increases national debt.
PhilipL9
23rd Feb 2018
-1
Thanks for voting!
That’s your opinion and I respect it but I take a different view but I can tell by your answer it’s pointless trying to give my reasons as I am sure your mind is made up so I think it’s best we beg to differ !
Irene88
23rd Feb 2018
0
Thanks for voting!
My mind was made back in 1998, 19999 when I studied EU Politics at university. It didn't work then with only 15 members. The chances of it improving with more states of so many diffierent backgrounds, economies, cultures and goals was doomed to fail. Many smaller countries joined to get subsidies.

I have no arguments with your views talking is good.
The Welshman
22nd Feb 2018
1
Thanks for voting!
The biggest and most powerful Remainers are the BBC, Sky and Channel 4.
SteveK5
22nd Feb 2018
4
Thanks for voting!
no, they are the millions of ordinary people who have actually researched the facts and understand the complexity of Brexit as well as realising that no-one has yet identified a single verifiable benefit of leaving the EU.
Lionel
22nd Feb 2018
-4
Thanks for voting!
Yep, paid by the EU, am I wrong?
Wilf
22nd Feb 2018
7
Thanks for voting!
The problem is noone seems to understand the complexity. It is economic, political and social and its huge.
Mchwheels
23rd Feb 2018
0
Thanks for voting!
Irene88
23rd Feb 2018
0
Thanks for voting!
Totally agree BBC are so biased I've stopped watching them. If they are concerned about economy why aren't they all taking a pay cut. Pay of radio presenters Evans, Vine and Wright are obscene.
heathergail
23rd Feb 2018
1
Thanks for voting!
Skyis soon to be of not already Murdoch. Leaver. Channel 4 tries hard to hold a straight line between.

The BBC - I have a massive problem with it used to be non partisan. It isn't now. In 2016 I helped expose the Question Time audience rigging which shocked many. Their audience producer was contacting far right groups including the EDL and Britain First to get them in the audience as 'leavers'. Now my parents who grew up with their precious 'Aunty Beeb 'would have been pretty pissed at that. We got the who scandal exposed. Even leavers I know don't think the Beeb is pro remain !
heathergail
23rd Feb 2018
0
Thanks for voting!
mrp
22nd Feb 2018
12
Thanks for voting!
Can any of you Brexiteers please explain how you still amazingly believe the complete rubbish that is being peddled by the cretins negotiating on your behalf? £350m a week has been exposed as a complete lie. You were told countries around the world would be queing up to sign trade agreements before the UK left, once again complete fabrication. Fox and his cohorts visited India and tried to sell them "Empire 2.0" and the Indian government sent them packing as a result of Indian students having their study visas seriously curtailed. Australia has clearly stated that their priority is a deal with the EU with a market of 500m etc etc. Still, they have managed to sweet talk the Saudi's, Turks and Trump. (countries with horrific human rights, zero morals and run by complete imbeciles like Trump)There is no point trying to point out realities to narrow minded people who only read the Daily Mail , Express and Torygraph, all of which are businesses owned by multi billionaires who pay minimal taxes in the UK and are manipulating you for their own means. Brexit nirvana is a pipe dream, the reality is, all economic indicators are pointing down and will only get worse when Britain leaves with no agreement and nothing in place to compensate. Inflation is higher and salaries are going down, the NHS is in dire straits because all your hated EU staff are leaving, crops are starting to rot because no EU workers want to come and work in this half xenophobic island. Still, what do you care? You'll be dead by the time Britain negotiates anything that replaces what we have now. I would warn you to be careful what you wish for with "Hard" Brexit but you won't live to see the dire consequences of your myopic, narrow minded views. As a final comment. The 2nd referendum was advisory and not conclusive. The British public should be given a vote to decide if the final deal is acceptable. We owe this to our children and future generations. The choice will be Brexit or NO Brexit, and this time the public should be a lot better informed of the consequences, although reading the comments here i think there is a generation who would rather go through with the Brexit lunacy advocated by BoJo, ReesMogg and the rest of the anti EU oafs than actually come to their senses. Maybe they should try reading other sources of news to get a more balanced perspective? there again you can't teach an old dog new tricks can you?
Lionel
22nd Feb 2018
0
Thanks for voting!
Your point about old dogs it so true, don't you think?
Irene88
23rd Feb 2018
0
Thanks for voting!
Think you listen to BBC too much!
David Andrew
22nd Feb 2018
-5
Thanks for voting!
It may take time to unravel 40 years of EU bureaucracy. But in the long run retaining UK sovereignty rather than becoming 27th state in the Eurocrats planned USE has to be the priority.
PearlM
22nd Feb 2018
6
Thanks for voting!
The UK never lost sovereignty.
CardinalB
22nd Feb 2018
6
Thanks for voting!
Unfortunately, in the not so long run we'll all be dead. I don't want my final years to be miserable. Ive worked hard all my life. I've paid my dues. I want my grandchildren to have the same chances I have had. Uk has done well out of the EU. I remember the 1960s. Great music, but a lousy quality of life.

Bureacracy? Ha! Just try raising Export documentation as a Third Country under WTO. It's a nightmare.

And you can forget abiut affirdable health care. Tge Americans are rubbibg their hands ready for the bargain basrment sell-off. Branson takes £5bn a year out of our NHS, and pays no tax on his own private island. Disgraceful.
Lionel
22nd Feb 2018
2
Thanks for voting!
Yes, David, absolutely. You are among the privileged few who have come to understand the ramifications of remaining in the EU. Thank you for your comment.
Lionel
22nd Feb 2018
-2
Thanks for voting!
No? Then you must be on benefits.
BrianDeVie
23rd Feb 2018
2
Thanks for voting!
But as has been legaly and politicaly confirmed, we have maintaned our soveriegnty throughout our EU membership.
It has been save and secure at Our Parliament, which is where it belongs, but the withdrawal bill remove that [OUR] soveriegnty and hand it over to 'her government'. Now that is very worrying IMHO.
Mchwheels
23rd Feb 2018
-2
Thanks for voting!
David, agree with will take a long time, much more than 2 years to do it right. Do it in 2 years will be really problematical. If your concern is the only one then you are right. But every thing has both good and bad results and the pain to go through to get where you want us to be is really not going to be worth it
thefilthycripple
22nd Feb 2018
-4
Thanks for voting!
Brexit will be the remaking of this country ,Biased civil servants cannot go to the toilet without filling in 6 forms
CardinalB
22nd Feb 2018
4
Thanks for voting!
On what basis do you think that? So far every week this shower go back on a Brexit promise. The £350m a week for the NHS promise went before breakfast on the day after the Referendum.

Now it looks like we will be paying in the same amounts for 15 years AFTER WE LEAVE! We won't have any say or vote, our veto will be lost, and we will just be a Brexited Cash machine. The worst possible position.
Lionel
22nd Feb 2018
1
Thanks for voting!
Heaven knows this country needs remaking, rebuilding. But if remained civil servants need a toilet, Brussels is there for them.
viking
12th Feb 2018
2
Thanks for voting!
Of course George Soros wants the UK to remain. He has the REAL hidden agenda - his stocks &shares plus other investments might be in danger. All his waffle about liking this country etc.etc is a cover up. All he is interested is himself and his wealth.
But to put money towards thwarting the wishes of the people of this country, really does take the biscuit.
PearlM
22nd Feb 2018
6
Thanks for voting!
What about the majority of the Tory party, most of whom are engaged in tax avoidance in offshore accounts? Do you think they - along with the right wing owner of the Daily Fail - are a bit troubled by the fact that the EU is about to clamp down on this loophole? And it comes into effect ...... oooh, just about exactly on the date we leave the EU. What a coincidence.
CardinalB
22nd Feb 2018
6
Thanks for voting!
I don't know anything about Soros. But I do know that Rees-Mogg's millions were made by advising his rich mates to move their wealth off-shore. The last thing he wants is the new Eu legislation on tax avoidance to come in.

These guys aren't your friends. We pay for everything. They take all the profits and hide them overseas.
Lionel
22nd Feb 2018
1
Thanks for voting!
Of course, you have evidence for this statement. Present it, please, so we may judge the veracity of your statement.

Like the press, such unfounded ejaculations as yours whip up a fervour in people, but where are the facts?

Please supply the facts.
scandiman
12th Feb 2018
3
Thanks for voting!
I’ve just heard the LBC interview with Best for Britain CEO, who refused to answer straight questions. I have also been on B for B’s website. Interesting that they appear to want to stop Brexit. That has nothing to do with wanting the best Brexit we can get. In spite of a majority wanting us to leave, they’re determined it won’t happen, regardless of what arrangements are made.
Lionel
12th Feb 2018
2
Thanks for voting!
There is no mechanism I know of to reverse the result of the Referendum no matter how desirable that may be to some worthies. A second in/out referendum has been heavily promoted recently but that is fraught with more constitutional problems than Brexit.

No one may estimate which way the result would go, so it's a massive gamble. If the Remainers got it then how would we deal with the legally binding first result the entirety of which (full Brexit) hasn't yet been delivered. One cannot reverse future history.

Unless we get a full Brexit, and very soon, we will have a constitutional crisis. If the Lords vote down any Brexit related Bill we will have a constitutional crisis

In saying I fear the peace, this is precisely what I feared. Waffle, prevarication, obfuscation and downright lies, all to deceive the electorate. Actually, it seems to me that's the political norm these days, but in a matter so divisive, so important as carrying through a legally binding referendum result we ought to expect more from our hirelings in Whitehall and the Civil Service.

I'll echo something you voiced a number of times. If Brexit is watered down, or is abandoned, then I will never vote again. Reading the popular press comment boards sometimes, 51% of the country feel much the same way. My comment is, that paves the way for civil unrest, which I cannot countenance.
CardinalB
22nd Feb 2018
5
Thanks for voting!
You are out of touch. The majority want to remain by 10% or 12% depending on which poll you look at.

The last election was fought on Brexit by the Tory party. They were 20% ahead in the polls for a landslide mandate when they declared the election.

Result? Decidedly not a mandate for Brexit. May lost her majority, and was only able to firm a Government by bribing ten Northern Ireland MPs for £1bn.

The will of the people is R E M A I N.

It's the only sensibke, practical and honest chouce.
CardinalB
22nd Feb 2018
5
Thanks for voting!
The referendum result was not only based on lies to the electorate but it was advisory. It certainly was not legally binding.

No country changes it's constitution based on the ideas of 27% of the population.

We have a Representative Democracy for that very reason, not a Direct Democracy.

Sorry, but as facts have become known the UK has changed its mind. Remain is 12% ahead of Leave.

"A Democracy that cannot change its mind is no longer a Democracy".

David Davies said that.
CardinalB
22nd Feb 2018
4
Thanks for voting!
Nope. Sorry. Brexit lovers are in the minority. Google your facts please.

There is NO upside to Brexit. Just pain, more poverty and devastation of our once Great country.
BrianDeVie
23rd Feb 2018
3
Thanks for voting!
"legally binding "
With respect, you must know that is totaly incorrect.
If I am wrong, please direct me to the law that has made this 'legaly binding'.
Irene88
23rd Feb 2018
0
Thanks for voting!
Didn't Cameron say in DAVos recently that his financial predictions were wrong?
Irene88
23rd Feb 2018
0
Thanks for voting!
I don't know of 1 who wants to remain. However I do live up north tha nose!
scandiman
11th Feb 2018
0
Thanks for voting!
I find it irritating that people like George Soros are making suggestions which pass unchecked. For example, he claims that Brexit has turned people in Britain against each other. This sweeping statement has no basis in fact. A few of our 60+million are arguing about it, but no more. From my own, admittedly limited observations within my circle, most are indifferent towards something over which they have no control. As for his assumption that the young feel betrayed by the old, who allegedly all voted Leave, where’s the proof? The referendum was secret. No one knows who voted what. A random sample in a survey proves nothing. I am annoyed that the turn-out for the referendum wasn’t higher. On an issue of such importance, it ought to have been much greater.
No-one can tell exactly what the effect of leaving will be until after it happens, any more than we could be certain when we originally chose to join the EEC.
Irene88
23rd Feb 2018
0
Thanks for voting!
I personally know of more young people ie under 30 who voted leave than oldies like me. Most of them were Labour voters as well!
scandiman
10th Feb 2018
2
Thanks for voting!
I voted Leave as result of becoming increasingly anxious about federal EU and the way we had been dragged into it without the electorate having a say. This is not the EEC we originally joined. With the factions involved- Welsh, Irish and the Scots and the complications I can’t see how the mess can be sorted out. Add to that the fact that we don’t even know what Labour’s stance is, it’s a ghastly mess. As for finding the truth, it depends on which ‘truth ‘ is peddled and by whom. Regarding the leaked documents, I suspect a breach of secrecy laws, and someone should be prosecuted. There isn’t one politician I trust. Whatever happens, we will all have to put up with it and muddle through, as we always have. Compared to the immensity of creation and the tide of centuries of human affairs, it doesn’t matter in the slightest. Life will go on.
Lionel
11th Feb 2018
2
Thanks for voting!
18 months or so on from the Referendum Brexit has become a perplexity, a complex of complexities I believe to be beyond the wit of mere politicians to resolve equitably. There are just too many self interests, too many rivalries, too much bitterness and acrimony and worst off all, it has become a national and international political football. I neglected to mention the paid for attempts to thwart Brexit by twisting what the public voted for.

The day after the Referendum I wrote as a foot note to Silver Surfer's long running Brexit debate that I feared the peace more than I was concerned about the 'war.'

You are right to put this blip in British history in context. 1939-45 the media was desperate to play down the seriousness of the war situation, so as not to panic the population. Today, all our media is hell bent on panicking everyone. Sensationalist journalism, which is of itself empty and meaningless, even in the span of a crisis.
RogerH1988
9th Feb 2018
2
Thanks for voting!
Even though I am concerned we must go ahead & get out of the EU. We can sort out the economy later like we always do.
Lionel
10th Feb 2018
-2
Thanks for voting!
Very well said Roger. I totally agree.
latin
16th Feb 2018
-2
Thanks for voting!
I am not concerned.... but we must not allow our decision to be thwarted by the likes of Tony Blair Allister Campbell ,Mandelson etc plus all the Lib Dems and corrupt Lords .
We the people have spoken,and the BBC and others will stop at nothing to STOP us having independence and to be a self governing trading nation again .
Most successful country’s are not yoked up to this so called DEMOCRATIC corrupt EU !The one that is run by unelected people who we are funding and who are hell bent in destroying us and forcing us into federalism !
They would have kicked us out ages ago had it not been for our taxes flooding to them to fill their deep pockets and allow them to nourish their every whim!
Out taxes are funding the destruction of the real Europe that we all like, just to satisfy corrupt unelected people’s dreams of their Utopia but our worst nightmare.
If those unelected Europrats didn’t stand to gain from their planned corruption then this would not be happening.
Are yourself why they are forcing federalism on nations that haven’t been asked nor do they want !
Lionel
16th Feb 2018
-1
Thanks for voting!
A good round up of the situation Latin. Thank you.

The fact is only the original treaty inaugurating the Iron and Steel Community has any basis in international law. All developments not specified and agreed in that treaty have no basis in law.

Also, as far as Britain is concerned, our membership is illegal, according to Magna Carta. That precious bedrock of our freedoms dates from 1215, Among it's many provisions: no foreign prince may be offered any control over this land of England; in the event of a traitorous government it is our duty to step in and require the Monarch to uphold their contract with the people. Sovereignty lies with the people and the Monarch is bound by that oath to hold an out-of-control government to account.

Yes, sovereignty lies with the people, not parliament or the monarch, despite what our M.P's say. That means the likes of Blair, Mandelson and Clegg have violated the basis of our constitution by perpetuating EU membership, enhancing our slavery to Brussels and now trying to thwart the will of a sovereign people. They are traitors, and despite the law being changed to prevent prosecution of traitors, they must, in terms of Magna Carta, be tried and if found guilty executed!
shielward
22nd Feb 2018
0
Thanks for voting!
exactly, we need to get on with the exit from the EU, then we will be able to start building instead of bickering.
mrp
22nd Feb 2018
1
Thanks for voting!
great plan which shows remarkable insight and forward thinking, well done
CardinalB
22nd Feb 2018
4
Thanks for voting!
Bollox to that. We were doing just fine until 2010. Austerity hurt the UK Economy badly, and unnecessarily, Brexit will kill it. We do not have the manufacturing base to trade well in world markets solus, and to turn our backs on our nearest and richest customer is pure folly.

Japanese firms employ 140,000 people directly in the UK. 10 times more jobs than that in other firms depend on supplying those Japanese firms with goods and services. They are only here because we are a bridge into the EU. For now.

Toyota this month has created 300 new jobs in France with a £700m investment in new plant there. Those jobs should have gone to Derby.

Think of your grandchildren. They will be paying this farce off for decades. Long after you and I are worm poo.
CardinalB
22nd Feb 2018
2
Thanks for voting!
I think you are mistaken there.

Which chapter of Magna Carta (or our Bill of Rights, if you prefer) are you referring to?

John Major was acting totally correctky when he signed the Treaty of Maastricht in 1992.
PearlM
23rd Feb 2018
1
Thanks for voting!
There will be nothing to build with. Any company that has straightforward common sense is now figuring out where they can move to. Our economy will die - unless you believe that selling a few jars of jam to China will somehow buoy us up. For all our sakes, get real. This disaster is unfolding in front of our eyes right now and we should all be pulling together to stop it.
shrew1742
9th Feb 2018
4
Thanks for voting!
I think I am more concerned about becoming a 'UNITED STATES OF EUROPE'. The European Commissioners (Barnier & Co) will not be happy until that happens, and the European flag is flown on Public buildings. He said that the EU did not wish to 'punish' the UK for deciding to leave. Who does he think he is kidding ? Every time he opens his mouth the words come out as ........ The UK will not be allowed to do this, the UK will not be allowed to do that etc etc. The whole of Europe & the UK needs each other (and I expect a few more nations will leave during the next 10/15 years) for trading & security purposes amongst others, so come on 'politicians' stop being spiteful & bitter and come to an amicable agreement quickly for all the 'people' of the UK & other European nations. I am British first and wish to be ruled by British politicians and not European ones. I will probably regret sending this after I have re read it, but I am in one of 'those moods' after listening to Mons. Barnier earlier. Ah well !!!! At least I feel better for it.
Lionel
9th Feb 2018
0
Thanks for voting!
Yes, Shrew, you deserve to feel better because you have articulated what many SS members said when SS held a long debate before the referendum. I was a part of that debate and so many others chimed in to say much as you have.

This is a nation like no other on the planet; it has a history of venturing across the seas, empire building and initiating trade right across the planet. To now try to confine this British people to an existence as a parish just outside Berlin just won't work. That means trouble ahead, or should I say more trouble.

I voted to leave, and am pleased to say that. Britain just does not belong as a part of Europe - yes we may co-operate with European peoples, we may even again go to war with them, but we are not a part of Europe. To think otherwise is a mistake.

Let's not forget that every attempt to unify European states since, and including Charlemagne, has failed. The EU will be no different.
latin
16th Feb 2018
-2
Thanks for voting!
Irene88
9th Feb 2018
0
Thanks for voting!
More scaremongering I feel. we need to get on with running our country for our benefit not for the EU. Italy's, Spain's and Greece's economies are suffering because of the EU, Many of them want to get out too.

Are the French and Germans going to stop selling us goods because we don't want to agree with their rules. I think not.
Lionel
10th Feb 2018
0
Thanks for voting!
The French and Germans will continue to sell their wares here, as they've done since the War because they can't afford not to.

Someone must keep the lazy French farms comfortable, and that statement comes from an English farm worker - me.
CardinalB
22nd Feb 2018
3
Thanks for voting!
We will still get the goods. But we will pay more.

We will pay 10% more on our cars.
We will pay 40% more on Beef and Fish under WTO tariffs.
And all % in between depending on the poduct category.

That's if the £ still holds up. The Bank of England did a Brexit stress test and forecast the £ dropping a further 27%, interest rates rising by 4%, and house prices dropping by a THIRD. It's on their web site.

When I downsize I don't want my equity released to be a third less. It's taken me 45 years to build up that equity. And you can't live on a state pension.
SovereignInventory
9th Feb 2018
4
Thanks for voting!
I was always concerned that if we were to leave the EU, did we have the right people to negotiate our leaving, I have no confidence in the current people carrying out the withdrawal. One question I would like an answer to is I keep hearing about getting the 'best deal' but there has been no clear definition from anyone what this best deal is. Best deal for who?
Lionel
10th Feb 2018
0
Thanks for voting!
Well, SI, we scavenging around Brussels looking for tit bits of trade, hoping against hope there's going to be a major breakthrough to our advantage. But that won't happen.

In my opinion we must have a hard brexit - that will severely damage both EU economy and that of member nations. They will come back in short order with a sweetheart deal.
scandiman
10th Feb 2018
2
Thanks for voting!
Trouble is, Lionel, we’re dealing with politicians, who don’t do straight talking. The niceties of diplomacy mean compromise, half-truth and dithering. The politicians introduced the idea of hard- and soft-Brexit, which has complicated matters. We voted Leave, just that, not ‘out’ a little bit. None of them has the strength of character to say that we walk away if we don’t get what we want. It will not happen.
Lionel
10th Feb 2018
0
Thanks for voting!
It would happen, full strength, if I were in No 10. I'm not a politician, nor an appeaser, but, like you Scandiman, have a clear view of the way ahead.

In my view there's no such thing as 'soft Brexit.' It's just out of political union and if the EU - and here it's not necessarily European countries who are being difficult - don't like what we demand by way of a shared and mutually beneficial trade deal, them sod 'em. WTO rules hurt the EU more than us.

We have so many countries lined up to trade with us, including China, Russia and America, not to mention the 22 countries of the Commonwealth, that we can do no other than greatly prosper outside the protectionist racket which is the grossly illegal EU.

First step: immediately sack remained politicians. Second step: cream off the top third, at least, of the Civil Service and sack 'em.

We stopped believing leeches could benefit us 150 years ago!
ChrisL2
22nd Feb 2018
4
Thanks for voting!
In your dreams. As the 27 grow at 2-3% the UK at 0.4% and Greece at 0.8%? They have no need of the UK - but the UK is suffering already, even before leaving. Brexit: voting to ‘take back’ what we had never lost, in order to lose everything we had.
Madness.
CardinalB
22nd Feb 2018
3
Thanks for voting!
I agree with you there entirely. It's a total joke.

It's 18 months since the referendum. It's, what, a year since Article 50 was submitted.

And today.... T O D A Y Mrs May and her cabinet are meeting to decide what sort of Brexit they want.

What a farce. If they had been working for me they would have been down the job centre by now.

Every stated hope and intention has been surrendered for nothing in return. NOTHING. They've rolled over on the lot. We have agreed to pay £100bn. We'll be paying our fees for 15 years at least, just as we do now, but we will have no say, no veto, no cadhback to our farners, fisheries or deptived areas.

What a bloody disaster.

We must be the onky coubtry in tge wirld eho eill be paying a membership fee NOT to join a club.
BrianDeVie
23rd Feb 2018
0
Thanks for voting!
Do we not allready have 'The Best Deal' ?
jane63c
9th Feb 2018
5
Thanks for voting!
The clear message is that Brexit will wreck our economy leaving us isolated. It will take decades to recover from the mess created by Tory party in fighting and cowardly leaders.
Our children and their children will suffer.
Our generation had best hope we don't need social care in our declining years.
The irony is that those areas most in favour if Brexit are the ones destined to suffer the most, bittersweet!
Lionel
10th Feb 2018
1
Thanks for voting!
Jane, there's no empiric evidence of the outcome of Brexit, nor remaining in the EU. It's all supposition, manipulated statistics and engineered statements favouring one side or the other.

18 months on from the Referendum we'r prospering as we haven't done in many years. The promise of the future is bright.

That all aside, I do not want my country to be a parish outside Berlin. We are a proud, self determining people and to subjugate ourselves to Berlin, after 2 world wars, is unthinkable. Europe will not foster and promote our economy, based on 40 odd years of experience. No, the Germans ring fence so much industrial stuff to their advantage and French farmers, among the least productive and laziest on the planet, prosper because of our massive and unreasonable financial contributions.

Time to end all that is well passed.
jane63c
10th Feb 2018
4
Thanks for voting!
Thank you for replying Lionel. We will have to agree to disagree.
I am not sure where the prosperity you refer to is taking place, I see little or no evidence of anything other than limbo on the part of business as it holds its breath to see what will happen. On top of that the disintegration of public services thanks to austerity.
There are plenty of jobs but very few full time, well paid jobs or careers for our young people.
I see Brexit leading us towards the end of a queue that has Europe, the USA and China at the front.
Lionel
10th Feb 2018
0
Thanks for voting!
May I say thank you too for replying, and so courteously. Thank you again.

In terms we are already in a transitional period between EU membership and no EU membership. No one yet knows the detail. Yet, the pound sterling has done quite well since the referendum, adjusting it's position against world currencies, making exports cheaper and more desirable. That has benefitted British exporters.

Apart from a very recent tumble, the Stock Market hasn't crashed, as was predicted by Osborne. That tumble was the result of non UK factors at play. More jobs are being created within our economy. As an example, my nearly son-in-law manufactures wrappers for the food industry. He was despairing of his company's position just after the Referendum, but, believe or not, their market has moved from domestic supermarkets to international concerns. It is booming.

The trouble with that company is ... they now need a 24/7 work force and their given strategy is to employ British youngsters. They didn't advertise their vacancies outside UK. But so many of our young people are just not up to the rigours of an industrial work place so the company has needed to employ Europeans who will work these hours.

I'm well acquainted with several local businessmen who find the same problem. They resort to Central/Eastern European employees.

My occupation for very many years, farming, employs Czechs, Poles et al because our young people can't cope with life on a farm.

Now, I'm not repeating press reports, no, these are personal experiences. If many of our young people want the benefits of work then they must work for them. It was ever thus and the Referendum hasn't changed that.

Yes, some of our young people have become stars in the employment firmament, and I know well some locals like that, but many, so many don't want to be discommoded in the workplace and therefore don't make the employment grade.

Like that stats of Brexit/no Brexit, we must look at real time life experience nationally.
jane63c
10th Feb 2018
0
Thanks for voting!
I admire your optimism and am pleased by the good fortune you are experiencing. There are many others not so fortunate.

As to the implied criticisms of our young people I find that to be rather sad. My experience of working with young people in the last decade has been quite different as they hold down menial jobs to fund their way through education, work without pay to get the experience employers demand but refuse to pay for and then spend months job hunting getting no useful feedback when they are unsuccessful.

We clearly have very different world views, so as I said before we will agree to disagree.
latin
16th Feb 2018
-1
Thanks for voting!
jane63c you are typical of the SPINNING remainers!
You really believe the lies and spin of the likes of Tony Blair Allister Campbell Vince Cable Ken Clark and Mark Carney ,the BBC propaganda machine and your own internal voice don’t you ?

Starting your message with a sweeping statement saying ‘the clear message is that Brexit will wreck our economy ‘ is an out and out lie.

Give your evidence for this sweeping statement .


Then give us evidence that whoever you say has made this prediction can back it up with their gaurenteed evidence!

It’s people like you that are destroying this democratic independent nation and are praying we will be taken into an undemocratic super state just to satisfy the needs of corrupt leaders with a hidden agenda .
If you want your tax to go to the creation of a federalist Europe then may I suggest instead of talking our nation down..... you go and live in Brussels!
latin
16th Feb 2018
0
Thanks for voting!
Jane you really need to get out more ,
Stop reading the Guardian and smell the roses,
latin
16th Feb 2018
0
Thanks for voting!
Lionel we waste our time with any of the remainer .We have a person here who is blaming Brexit on austerity!
If that’s how Jane sees things then it’s a waste of time trying to change her / his view point.
She /he must have been under a stone for the last fifteen years !
You have to admit these remoaners blame absolutely every daily negative happening on Brexit it’s just a continuous stream of lies from them day after day.
They sure are thick skinned though.
Lionel
16th Feb 2018
1
Thanks for voting!
'They sure are thick skinned though.'

Or are they well paid by outside forces such as the EU and Soros?
jane63c
16th Feb 2018
2
Thanks for voting!
Lot's of sweeping statements in your response too!
Suffice to say one of my sources has a strong financial and legal background in global business and is not a political or media person.
I appreciate there as many good brains on your side of the argument and as many 'liars' - Johnson, Gove, Farage to name but three and then let's not forget the Daily Mail.
I won't engage further as I realise we both take opposing views and we will be unlikely to change each other's minds. However, I respect your right to hold those views.
latin
17th Feb 2018
-3
Thanks for voting!
Rely....only one?
That makes your views right Jane does it?
Please tell us all the benefits of a federalist Europe Jain,maybe you could even ask your friend to elaborate on the matter,
latin
17th Feb 2018
-1
Thanks for voting!
That should have been really!
latin
17th Feb 2018
-1
Thanks for voting!
Interesting you call people liars ,could we have your written evidence?
Sounds like you love Corbin the commi ,Blair the Unions Allister Campbell and the Lib Dem’s and our former and present chancellor and Ken Clark .
All have their vested interests in the EU ,take Clark and Heseltine,you should easily be able to trace their dealings with the EU !
Once again bribed with our money,it’s so easy when you can bribe people and country’s with our tax payers cash .
The Eu Dream of a Federalist state would not exist if it wasn’t for them bribing country’s and people with cash that isn’t theirs to waste on their Utopian dream .
mrp
22nd Feb 2018
3
Thanks for voting!
maybe you should have read some news last week that may shock you, Japan has huge investments in this country, including numerous banks, car plants etc, Japan quite categorically stated that if Britain is outside the EU, they will relocate their businesses to mainland europe, this will not be good for the economy or jobs or tax receipts, so please try and put a positive spin on this FACT. I suppose you'll say the bloody nips should sod off! Also John Redwood has advised his clients to pull all investments from the UK, another ringing endorsement. Japan is just the tip of the iceberg, still, i am sure you will build great trading relationship with Mauritania which is the only country in the world trading under WTO rules. In my eyes the traitors are the people who will drag this country out of a flawed but mutually successful partnership with our european cousins because of this little island mentality,
MikeR9
22nd Feb 2018
4
Thanks for voting!
CardinalB
22nd Feb 2018
3
Thanks for voting!
Not of that is true. None of that is a logical construct from the evidence. But I accept that you have genuine emitional views on the matter.

There is plenty if evidence that shows how bad it would be if we left the EU. Or at least the EEA. Google is your friend.

Leaving the EU will cost us more than staying. And we benefit greatly from being in the EU for naff all cost

According to HMRC I paid £18 last year to the EU - for the whole year. You couldn't get a single match-day ticket for a 2nd Division football team for that. Certainly not a night out, or an hour bowling, or cinema ticket and nibbles. It's the price of a curry.

I'm very happy with that. My wife and I - and dog - have the freedom of movement across the entire Continent, ability to take work anywhere in that territory and get free medical care while I am there. And yes, I have done it, when jobs over here were impossible to find. And it was a great (and well paid) experience.

I don't have to risk leaving my Human Rights at the door as I go, either. The European Court can keep these Tory gangsters in check, and prevent the worst excesses. As they have already been doing. Look at the judgements in the Court of Human Rights. The UK is the most prolific contravener of it's citizen's Human Rights of any EU nation.

Are you telling me, anti-EU peeps, that if we were not in the EU that savings would exceed £18 a year? You can say goodbye to cheap wine for a start. And that Irish Beef will carry a 40% tariff. Your holidays will be more expensive. And VAT will need to rise in the UK. Actually £18 is the lowest item on the list. The next lowest is overseas aid at £40.

More interestingly, I paid £83 last year to support Business and Industry. It doesn't say which, nor if it was British Business and Industry. Now THAT I would like to stop paying. Why am I paying money to support Corporations when there is £120bn a year taxes avoided by simply declaring your HQ is overseas? Why am I paying this when the Tories have been selling off public assets at knock-down prices to their mates. RBS was knocked down at 40% off market value, for example, and we were totally shafted when we bought those Lloyds shares, which again were sold at a loss to us, but at a profit for the Tory Chums.

We're being shafted on a regular and routine basis. But it's by our own Government, not the EU.

And don't get me started on PIP......
CardinalB
22nd Feb 2018
2
Thanks for voting!
Oh dear. So much hate! And the rest of us are having such a nicely civilised discussion, too. I think Jane has been very polite, and undeserving of such vitriol.

I don't agree with Lionel on almost everything he says, but I respect that his opinions are genuinely and sincerely held - unlike a lot of our Representative MPs, I fear, who are cashing in regardless.

You don't have to leave these shores to find corruption of the highest order.

I would say to you though, Latin, that over the last 2 years many predictions and warnings by experienced and well informed people were criticised as "project fear". Every single one of those predictions have come to pass on schedule. Yet the critique of the Leave politicians was so inaccurate that they tried to hide the very facts from the electorate.

When you pop into tge shops and there are 3 or 4 bisvuits less in a pack for the same price, wgen you see that butter has doubled in price in the last year, and your gas, electricity and petrol has shot up; even a loaf of bread. That is because our economy - which had its problems after 2010 - hit the brick wall of Brexit. We lost our AAA Crefit Rating. The EU didn't. Our £ is worth 80p. And we have to buy our commodities and fuels in $.

If Brexit was good for us I'd be all for it. But everything I know tells me it will be a disaster for ordinary folks like us. We will be seriously out of pocket personally, I don't think we will get the health care we have been promised during all these years of paying in. I can see our homes being taken from us to pay more for health. Meanwhile the rich will be rolling in it in their tax-free sanctuary that we call the UK. If it still is a UK.
CardinalB
22nd Feb 2018
1
Thanks for voting!
Time for your tablets, Latin.

That is all.

Over and out.
CardinalB
22nd Feb 2018
1
Thanks for voting!
Must be a conspiracy, eh Tovarichie ?

Or maybe we've just been thinking it through and researching independent facts, not just using our own experiences in, say, International Business Development and Strategic Marketing.
CardinalB
22nd Feb 2018
1
Thanks for voting!
Lionel
22nd Feb 2018
-1
Thanks for voting!
Tovarichie? That's not the correct spelling or part of speech.

Because you claim, no, self proclaim, to have been in International Business Development and Strategic Marketing doesn't say you know anything about these disciplines. Evidence please, which may be checked online.

Until you supply the relevant verifiable evidence your claims are valueless.
Lionel
22nd Feb 2018
-1
Thanks for voting!
I find it a little odd, Cardinal, you've been a member of SS since December 15 and haven't bothered to participate in these discussions until now.

Where were you in the long running Brexit debate? Nowhere it seems. And yet suddenly, as if by a miracle, the messiah of remainers comes out of the wood work.

And you expect to gain a degree of credibility?

Troll? Paid by Brussels? Or BBC, perhaps?

And your name, Cardinal ... it claims a supremacy, does it not? Allow me to tell you, you have no supremacy over me!

Go tuck up comfortably in Labour headquarters for the night. I'm sure someone will give you breakfast. The Salvation Army truck is not far away.

Good night.
ArthurB4
8th Feb 2018
5
Thanks for voting!
I am concerned with Brexit only because we are not being told the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.
Political games should not be involved in leaving the UK.
If we had the facts in the first place perhaps the vote may not have been a vote of no confidence in politicians in general.
There is infighting amongst MP's of the same parties can not agree. Also these leaked reports, why is it we never get to know who has actually leaked them?
Or are they just put out to frighten the public or just to gain political points.
Lionel
8th Feb 2018
4
Thanks for voting!
Agreed Arthur. I believe the primary qualification for a job as a politician is a supreme ability to deceive. They find a gift for confusion quite useful too.
latin
16th Feb 2018
0
Thanks for voting!
I am concerned with ‘REMAIN’ as we are not being told the truth ,the real truth,
Arthur since when did a politician tell the truth ?

Well one thing we do know Arthur is the the unelected undemocratic so called leaders in Brussels are hell bent in creating a Federalist state of Europe that no one has asked or voted for,!
That is enough in its self for you to be able to decide what you want your taxes to be spent on and what you wNt for your country .
Truth or no truth from remainers and brexiteers that should be enough for you to decide which side you will fall down on!
It’s not hard Arthur.... in fact it’s very simple .Dont depend on any Politicians of any party to tell you what to think ,decide ‘do you want us under Federalism or not ?’
Simple.
Lionel
16th Feb 2018
2
Thanks for voting!
On the matter of raising taxes in Great Britain, this is a very thorny issue. Cromwell had signed into law that only Parliament may raise taxes on the people of England. This was in response to Charles 1 raising money for his military. Even today, if the Chancellor proposes in a budget to raise taxation on something or a group of people and M.Ps don't agree, then it doesn't happen. Re: George Osborne's Pasty and caravan tax.

For our Parliament to agree to raise taxes on the British people and channel a chunk of that to an illegal and foreign power with such control as to demand a levy is an illegal and traitorous act. The British people are being taxed at one remove by this illegal and foreign power.

Little wonder Blair repealed the traitor act!

But wait a minute. The Queen signed the accession document to our membership of Europe. She signed the document agreeing the British people pay taxes to Brussels?

Where does this corruption end?
CardinalB
22nd Feb 2018
3
Thanks for voting!
Well said. The referendum was to heal the Tory split. It did exactly the opposite.

The Government has been furtive in its dealings. What are they still hiding?
CardinalB
22nd Feb 2018
3
Thanks for voting!
Very true Lionel. It's as if they dont trust us with the truth.
Lionel
22nd Feb 2018
0
Thanks for voting!
What are you hiding?
The Welshman
8th Feb 2018
3
Thanks for voting!
Big deal! IF we believed the media`s take on those figures, we would be worse off by .33% a year!. However, I for one don`t believe the anti-brexit message constantly being pushed by the media.
Lionel
10th Feb 2018
2
Thanks for voting!
latin
16th Feb 2018
1
Thanks for voting!
Poor old Authur does !
CardinalB
22nd Feb 2018
2
Thanks for voting!
I don't believe in gravity.

But I'm not dumb enough to jump off a cliff, just in case I'm wrong....
Poppy1010
7th Feb 2018
1
Thanks for voting!
The government said that if we voted to leave the EU, we would go into a deep ression. So I don't believe what they are saying now, I think they are trying to frighten us into staying in the single market, that would stop UK from trading outside Europe, which is what we did not vote for
Poppy1010
7th Feb 2018
3
Thanks for voting!
The government said if we voted to leave the EU we would slide into a deep resession, but we never did, so I don't believe what is being said now, I think they are trying to make us stay in the single market, which is not a good idea, as we will not be able to trade outside europe
jane63c
9th Feb 2018
4
Thanks for voting!
We haven't left yet, the recession us brewing for when we do.
Lionel
10th Feb 2018
1
Thanks for voting!
We can't know that as fact until we've left the EU and the Customs Union for good. All statistics and predictions are just that ... predictions, and we should know what astrologer's predictions are like - useless.
jane63c
10th Feb 2018
1
Thanks for voting!
I don't think we are relying on astrologers here!
latin
16th Feb 2018
1
Thanks for voting!
No Jain,we were told we would immediately be sent into major recession and jobs would be lost .Stop twisting things ,
It was not said when we are out .....it was immediately after vote ,
Lionel
16th Feb 2018
0
Thanks for voting!
CardinalB
22nd Feb 2018
1
Thanks for voting!
Gravity Lionel, gravity.

I don't need to fall off a skyscraper to see if gravity exists.

We don't need to wreck the economy to know that doing bad things to it will hurt it.
viking
4th Feb 2018
3
Thanks for voting!
I think that Glynys has a short memory or is too young to remember that there has always been a shortage of labour to pick crops etc. Farmers themselves acknowledge this, and has little to do with Brexit.
Living in the country and seeing what goes on, it makes little sense to employ foreign or British labour, when one machine can do the work of 20/30 people, the latest sugar beet monster can devour a field in a few hours and produce a product which is clean and ready to be transported.
Before any naggers, yes a raspberry picker is in the pipeline !!
Yodama
5th Feb 2018
3
Thanks for voting!
I remember as a young girl, during school holidays and weekends we would help the farmers out by going potato picking and hay bale carting.
Back breaking work but we had a lot of fun doing it, also a little pocket money was always welcome.
I wonder if kids today do the same? Perhaps not if you say the impersonal machines are doing it all.
Sigh! Ah the halcyon days!
ArthurB4
8th Feb 2018
2
Thanks for voting!
I love the back in the day memories reminds me of my grandad.
Lo and behold I am a grandad doing and saying the same things about when I was a lad.
Lionel
8th Feb 2018
0
Thanks for voting!
You're quite right, the labour shortage for seasonal farm work existed before ever I went working on farms in the '70's. Yodama is also quite correct in that harvest time village kids and where possible their mothers would be recruited to pick potatoes, pick fruit, feed pigs and calves whilst the stockmen were working at harvest. I was one of those kids.

The labour crisis has it's roots with the War Cabinet of 1943. Knowing they could win the War they began to plan for victory. Some aspects of those plans are obvious - The National Health Service, the Butler Education Act 0f 1944, welfare reforms, but another, more sinister decision was taken.

The improved vehicle technology gained during the War was to be refined and used for farm equipment. Farm workers, traditionally living on the farm were to be relocated to Council houses in nearby towns so when the machines made them redundant they would take factory jobs.

But, in the event, a few short years after the War farm workers were fleeing the land and taking their families with them. Hence, traditional seasonal labour went with them. That was an unplanned and unprepared for consequence of yet another government cock-up!

Europeans, mainly students, had been working on farms here on a short term work permit for many years before Central and Southern Europe was admitted to the EU in 2004. All that did was increase the supply of cheap labour - yes, it mostly is cheap labour - and farms have made much money from them.

I think it is as much the threat of needing to pay the minimum wage to Brits as it is a loss of cheap labour that is making farmers squeal. But, let's face it, it doesn't take much to make a farmer squeal - just send them an invoice and you may need to pre-book an ambulance for them.
Lionel
8th Feb 2018
0
Thanks for voting!
Me too, Arthur, albeit step grand children, but I was in the family before they were born and so they know nothing else.

It was those early years as a kiddie working as seasonal labour that made me yearn to work on farms as a job. But my rural upbringing was brought to an end when my father moved us to his home, London.

Yet, as soon as I could I returned to my roots and got a farm job and stayed in that industry for many years.
latin
16th Feb 2018
0
Thanks for voting!
Exact,and I am a Farmer!
Lionel
16th Feb 2018
1
Thanks for voting!
You'd better not read my rather derogatory comments about farmers above! But then that was my experience over many years.

Whereabouts, roughly do you farm?
latin
17th Feb 2018
1
Thanks for voting!
Lincolnshire.Feel free to speak your mind .
The NFU are behind much of the negativity coming out of the EU and Farming.
It’s one huge scam and every remainer wants something for nothing!
Take the set aside debacle.
latin
17th Feb 2018
1
Thanks for voting!
I do agree re arable farmers but not the poor hill farmers.
Lionel
17th Feb 2018
1
Thanks for voting!
Although originally from West Norfolk, I began farming in Suffolk, mixed and 250 arable, then Thirsk managing a large highly innovative pig unit and onto a 7,000 acre group farm tractor/combine driving and managing 1000 sows. Thence to Eire for old style dairy on small mixed farms, back to the group farm where, as well as managing pigs became of the flying squad dodging all over the group. Over the years gained a nice rounded experience of farming.

I agree about the NFU, there's several tales I could tell about that one. Former Farm Workers Union boss Boddy grew up with my mother. Had occasion to phone him because the Union had done nothing about a substantial claim for back pay of mine. Just reminded him of Mother asking if he would like to me to ask her about him? Got my claim settled pretty damn quick.

The EU has been a disaster for British farming. It favours the big spreads and corporate interests over the smaller farmer which is wrong. I've often wondered if there's a back room policy to drive farmers of say less than 500 acres off their land and amalgamate to create a much bigger spread. Certainly seems to be evidence over many years.

Once we're truly out there's one heck of a shake up coming for British farming, and in most ways it will be a good thing.
Lionel
17th Feb 2018
0
Thanks for voting!
Ah, I must say here I haven't any experience of hill farming, although I know there's little profit in. There's exceptions to every good idea.
Yodama
4th Feb 2018
7
Thanks for voting!
A centuries old and well known form of disseminating propaganda is by leaking documents, or in modern day format "fake news." Strange how "Buzzfeed." got their hands on it!

These documents which just "happen" to become centre news, is a highly efficient way of orchestrating changes in public opinion to achieve the desired result. The document purports to be written by someone or a body who appear to have arrived at their conclusions by serious and thorough investigation.

In this case, a fantasy pill we are all expected to swallow.

GREAT Britain is doing very well and seems to be thriving.
Business is booming in the UK say the Captains of Industry. The upswing in global growth has confounded the naysayers, our economy remains resilient in spite of Brexit concerns.
We must LEAVE the single market or we may as well stay in the Union. If not, they (Brussels) would still have a stranglehold on us.



New business and new orders are flooding in. The Pound has hit a high against the dollar for the first time since the Brexit vote.

What else are they cooking up behind the scenes to overturn the democratic will of the peoples of this country.

We must NEVER become the lackeys of an unelected bunch of people who do not have our best interests at heart. Our sovereignty must NEVER be relinquished.

If anyone is doubting that the BRITISH HAVE BACKBONES OF STEEL should take a look back in history.

We don't need to kowtow to anybody, especially a bunch of Brussels Bureaucrats who's need for a Superstate of Europe is collapsing about their ears. They need us more than we need them.
Yodama
8th Feb 2018
2
Thanks for voting!
Just heard on the news, (RT, not the BBC,( British Biased Corporation.) Leaked punishment plan document by the EU is "discourteous " says David Davis.
Blatant scare tactics by the EU.

Here it comes....... the EU beast is emerging in its true colours. Nasty, bullying and blackmailing their way through these negotiations. When we were kids we were afraid of the monster under the bed, now we are all grown up, we see the EU as just a bunch of weak shadows.
Bring it on! Walk away now Britain.

I feel for Theresa May, back like a rod of iron , under more pressure than any person should be faced with. I wouldn't want her job . Knifed by her own colleagues when they should be behind her. For shame!
Lionel
10th Feb 2018
1
Thanks for voting!
That's a good analysis Yodama. I couldn't disagree with it.
bidrick
3rd Feb 2018
6
Thanks for voting!
I'm concerned about the way our Government is allowing the EU to dictate the terms, instead of cutting back our contributions if they won't moderate their demands.
jeffsoo
3rd Feb 2018
5
Thanks for voting!
If we are unable to negotiate a good deal we should just walk away
Poppy1010
7th Feb 2018
2
Thanks for voting!
I totally agree with that, then we don't have to pay this totally outrageous money to the eu
scandiman
2nd Feb 2018
4
Thanks for voting!
As regards the recruitment problems of NHS, if we made NHS jobs financially rewarding, if we encouraged young people to feel it was a worthwhile career, recruitment problems would disappear. Instead some are not that well paid and work very long and stressful hours. So many want university, an easy degree and expect to make a lot of money with little effort. No wonder we have to look abroad for staff who have a strong work ethic and a determination to get on.
latin
16th Feb 2018
2
Thanks for voting!
scandiman ....We would not need all these nurses doctors teachers etc etc if immigration was not wildly out of control !
Remember the National Health Service is NATIONAL not INTERNATIONAL ,we are treating the world .
We are educating the WORLD,
Our country has not got the means or infrastructure for the millions flooding our country!
Aren’t they supposed to stay in the first safe country they arrive in? What happened to that rule,oh I remember it didn’t fit the EU agenda.....how to stupid of me to think the EU would stick to its word!
Lionel
16th Feb 2018
1
Thanks for voting!
There's much more honour among thieves.
viking
2nd Feb 2018
7
Thanks for voting!
The Remoaners have conveniently short memories. Dave our then P.M. went to Brussels and tried to negotiate some reforms of the EEC,he was rudely sent away with a flea in his ear.
The EEC do not wish to reform their wasteful ways.
Ironically certain member state leaders have now said they wish we would stay !! They were given a chance once !!
Let us get out as soon as possible, and regain our rightful controls.

Previous remarks about doctors and nurses leaving this country. They are now being recruited back to their own countries with promises of big pay boosts for their increased knowledge and training obtained whilst in the NHS, [at our expense of course}.
Lynsey
2nd Feb 2018
5
Thanks for voting!
We have to take back some control about who comes to this country . We are a small island literally bursting at the seams. It’s our schools hospitals and housing that are crumbling under the weight of these excessive numbers now living here . Naturally it’s going to cause resentment so something has to be done, unless we all pay a monthly premium for our healthcare like they do in the USA. What’s the alternative? It’s unsustainable in the long term.
scandiman
2nd Feb 2018
5
Thanks for voting!
No-one can foretell the future, not now nor when we joined EEC. We have to plan and, to a degree, hope for the best. Nothing in life is guaranteed. We have to stop being so timid. Our so called partners have no idea about negotiation, all they do is make demands and we cave in. Some of our politicians are using every piece of trickery, parliamentary delaying tactic, lies and prevarication to obstruct the result of the referendum. Leave means just that, out, not half in. If we end up not leaving after all, my wife and I will never vote in any election again. As it is, we have no faith in any politician of any party. They’re all liars.
GlynysH
1st Feb 2018
-4
Thanks for voting!
We should not be coming out of the EU. We have benefited greatly. It’s going to wreck our NHS as EU nurses and doctors are leaving. Who wants to work in a country that doesn’t want them. It’s time people realised that we don’t rule the waves anymore. If Brexiteers think that trade deals are going well. Think again all these countries outside of the EU will want freedom of movement. When are farmers can’t get their crops out and they end up rotting in the ground because Brits are too lazy to do the work. Our hotels won’t get staff. Let’s see how many of those moaning the Eastern Europeans are taking our jobs will actually take the jobs very few. Why not take us back to the 20 century. We will not get what we want from the EU it 1 against 27. We won’t even be at the table while they are discussing it. We will end up having to follow EU rules during transition.
Lionel
2nd Feb 2018
4
Thanks for voting!
Glynis, I'm sorry to say your views on British farming are not born out by fact. I worked in British farming a lot of years.

Since the War the entire demographic of farming has changed. Gypsies and Travellers, along with farmer workers wives, were the traditional source of seasonal labour. My first farm, 250 acres, pigs, cattle and dairy, had five farm workers and their families in 1951. By the early 70's advances in machinery meant I was the only one, and we didn't need seasonal labour any more.

My last farm, actually 7 farms totalling 7,000 acres. 6 farms had one farm worker and the main farm four; we were the flying squad, so to speak, flitting between farms all year round ploughing, drilling, combining ... whatever. In my case I also had 1,000 head of pigs to manage.

Gypsies found more profitable enterprises like scrap yards. Men who had been made redundant from farms moved to work in towns and cities, their wives, office, shop or other white collar jobs. The Irish were first to fill seasonal roles left by them, organised into work gangs by gang masters. The Irish went home as their country prospered. Then Eastern European labour became available and was similarly organised. They make enough in 4 months to live like kings for the rest of the year at home.

The Brits are now so very much urban dwellers. To expect that they be shipped quite considerable distances into rural areas, housed, fed etc as well as paid at least the national minimum wage all at a farmer's cost is unrealistic. Farm produce would be so over priced no one would buy British food. Result? More food imports. Besides which so many Brits are quite unfit and therefore unsuited to farm work. It's one thing to work out in a gym but quite another to graft one a farm.

It's not a matter of Brits being lazy I can assure you. It's just not practical nor an economic possibility that Brits could fill these roles. Because Central Europeans may earn so much money in such a short time they will keep on coming here. The problem is those that don't go home and find our Benefits instead.
MorrisandDoris
6th Feb 2018
-3
Thanks for voting!
Typical snowflake comment ,suggest you go to Calais there are hundreds trying to get here and we hate them, but still they try to come to here.
jane63c
10th Feb 2018
2
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Schroedinger's immigrants!
latin
16th Feb 2018
1
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Glynis..... is your surname KINNOCK?
PhilipM
1st Feb 2018
6
Thanks for voting!
I feel that all this scare mongering is a bit like the Millennium Bug, "The world will fail, Planes will fall out the sky etc.. and yet nothing happened.

How much money does Malta, Cyprus, Romania or Bulgaria donate to the E.U. ? I have just returned from Cyprus and they love the E.U. for all the money being spent on the Island. Even in the Northern bit, invaded by Turkey the E.U. flag is flying as they (the E.U.) re-build the old walls around Famagusta, and they (Northern Cyprus) nor Turkey are in the E.U..
latin
17th Feb 2018
1
Thanks for voting!
Philip one thing you fail to mention ,we are paying for all that,not the EU ,it has no money it’s our taxes paying to rebuild all these country’s while our own is crumbling .
We are also paying about £1000 a year each for world aid while we see all our infrastructures failing due to the fact the country’s people we are supposedly aiding are all coming here,
What an utter shambles the whole thing is and will continue to be!
No government has the guts to sort us out and we will end up having a civil war.
Wilf
1st Feb 2018
7
Thanks for voting!
I for one am optimistic. we will be fine-This is GREAT BRITAIN for goodness sake. Lets get a bit of backbone again! The global economy is doing well. WE are already the 5th largest economy in the world. We have a lot of expertise and brains and people here work. What is rubbish is our politicions are all minows in the tide of history just when we need an other Winston Churchill! I voted to stay. My view was why leave when the staying option is probably...the safe bet. The more I read and look at the situation nobody has ever had a clue what would happen if we did leave and as I said I think it will be fine.
Lionel
2nd Feb 2018
3
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I too am very optimistic, Wilf ... just a little short of joyful.

Once the politicking has been put to bed British businessmen will have the globe to roam around doing deals and supplying need. More, we will be able to act as middlemen between nations who cannot of themselves be seen to trade.

We have a Commonwealth of 2 billion people, under developed and desperate to join the developed world. They have the food we need to trade for electronics and expertise. They also have so many raw materials we can yet use.

Our financial industry with it's years of experience in financing and underwriting may organise the world's trade. I take the view the EU is a protection racket which has stifled British enterprise for two generations. Be rid of it and let us learn to trade again and prosper. We Brits taught the world how to do it so no one knows better than us what we're about.

Theresa May heralded a new Golden age of trade with China - I didn't know there had been a prior Golden Age. But her vision is too narrow. This is the time of the Brits. If our politicians have got the guts to stop politicking and walk away from Europe in one day, then they will come chasing after our friendship and the world will be an open door to us.
Wilf
2nd Feb 2018
0
Thanks for voting!
The issue I think Lionel is businessmen are and always have been going around the world looking for new clients.The difference is the suppliers will chaneg. When I was a boy we got NZealand butter...we still get it but we also get other butters. Now when we leave the EU I am presuming the EU butter will become more expensive so we will revert back to our buddies in NZ (who we should always have stuck with as they are our kin and brethern anyway!)
Lionel
2nd Feb 2018
2
Thanks for voting!
You're absolutely right Wilf. We should never, not ever, have let go our Commonwealth suppliers and markets. We ditched Australia and New Zealand in a moment in favour of the EU. Big mistake. I thought so at the time.

Yes we have always been looking globally for new business, but the EU I understand hedged us about with the demand that our trade should be restricted to them unless we wanted to pay tariffs for importing from outside the EU. Our food became, and is, pro rata much more expensive than it need be.

A couple of years ago one of our rail franchises needed new locos and carriages. They negotiated with Bombardier in UK but the deal was referred to Brussels who, quite unsurprisingly, ruled that a German company should have the contract. But there was a problem. Bombardier had already developed the required level of technology and our rail franchise was required to pay the German company a substantial premium to develop the same.

We're a trading nation and have been for 400 years. The world, specifically the Empire, has been our market. To limit our enterprises and businessmen to 370 million over developed Europeans when they were trading with a world that needed and was prepared to pay for our wares was a crime.

It was, when understood in the round, a treasonous act.

And so it is I rejoice our businessmen have been unshackled to once again trade with the world. This can only be of benefit to us Brits.
Wilf
2nd Feb 2018
0
Thanks for voting!
Agreed with your comments Lionel. It could be the best of both worths if we can negotiate with the EU to keep their tarrifs low at the same time as trading with the rest of the world.
Lionel
2nd Feb 2018
0
Thanks for voting!
Well, Wilf, I believe we are in a stronger negotiating position then the Eu at present. Put simply, they need us more than we need them, and it has been that way for several decades. I believe Theresa May is yet able to play her cards close to her chest and win a great deal - no tariffs.

As far as the rest of the world is concerned for trade with us I liken it to our three Collies. On some outings with them they're restricted to paths beside crops and they know it. Another walk there's fifty or so acres of grass land where they may run free as this breed must. At that time even my eldest, the one in the images who is just fourteen, will, with his barely younger son, chase a muntjac deep and bring it down.

Perhaps that's not a nice thought ... but the analogy is ... set free even the impossible is possible.

I've wanted for so long to set our industry and commerce free of the restrictions of Europe; let them roam free across the planet to do what they do best. Business. That business brings home benefits to us Brits - the sale of technology, underwriting by say, Lloyds, manufacturing and more. That means greater employment, fatter pay checks and a great place at the world's negotiating tables.

Wilf, your post mentions a Great Britain. I truly believe there's enough Great Britons remaining to make this work for Britons; for us even in my life time, to become again a world economic power. I'll quote Shakespeare's Henry the long dead ... and let go the dogs of war. Yes and yes again, let go these young lions so couped up by Europe, let them go. Like my dogs set free of restraint they will accomplish amazing things.

When the referendum result was announced - yes I sat up all night - my joy was complete. Not because Roof Top Crow had been proved so wrong, no, but because this nation was about to be liberated.

You must have read by now I'm not of British descent but being the seventh generation immigrant I have become so very British and I love it. I love this country and it's people and my heart's desire is to witness a prosperity it may yet achieve.

Let go the dogs of war ... and bring back the world wide trade.
Wilf
3rd Feb 2018
-1
Thanks for voting!
We still are a world economic power Lionel the 5th largest bt China and USA dwarf us and so do Germany and Japan. Its all about the rise and fall of the great powers. The 19th Century was GBs, The 20th USA and the "21st will be China. There is a tectonic shift to the Pacific-China and Japan and California. Nothing we can do apart from...as you say...get out there and trade!
latin
17th Feb 2018
0
Thanks for voting!
What happens if we stay Wild?
Unelected corrupt people will march into Federalism under the rule of Germany.
The country’s that are not speaking out are being bought by our tax money,the unelected Eurocrats (mostly failed politicians trying to make names for themselves and on a get rich quick scheme) dish out our taxes to all the failing backward country’s as though money was going out of fashion!
They know that money buys votes ,You and I aren’t asked what we want them to do with our cash ,and believe me they don’t give a hoot what you and I think or want just so long as the UK stays subservient and keeps up its huge cash payments,

Forget it if you think they will spend on us,this great plan is about themselves and the creation of a Federalist state!
What other strong nation outside the EU would entertain giving over their nation and freedoms to a load of failed has bean Eurocrats to so destroy them with Federalism?
Those at the top who spin the lies are the ones with vested interests in the EU .The likes of Clark ,Blair Heseltine,Mandelson etc etc all have interests and are being paid by the EU to do their bidding.
Remember the EU has nothing it’s our money not theirs and it needs stopping and spending here at home !
Wilf
17th Feb 2018
-1
Thanks for voting!
I agree monies need to be spent here at home but we have our own fools as politicials. Look at bth the main parties and you couldnt make it UK. Corbyn looks like he was a stooge for the KGB and May and co couldnt run a bath let alone a country.
Margaret Hart
1st Feb 2018
2
Thanks for voting!
I don’t think anybody expected this negotiation to be as complicated and there is no need for what is happening. It seems Europe expect us to pay a hugefineforwanting to be governed by our own country again as we used to be. We have everything owed all the way through plus we have paid much more than many plus we have paid towards buildings and many other things which we shall no longer receive any benefit from. They obviously wish to punish us for not wanting what the do but when we joined this organisation it was supposed to be a ?Trade organisation which it has never turned out to be. When we had our own business in a smaller way we were in a trade organisation and it helped us enormously and could have helped Europe but it is obvious that that was never the plan it was just words to start a trap and we fell for it. Trading organisations become joint big buyers so they have strength in numbers but this never happened.
Wilf
2nd Feb 2018
0
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Agreed Margaret. the top individuals in the Eu wanted a federal Europe. Big mistake. We are all too different as countries for that. Germany has a GDP of 2 x Uk and France so it is by far the most powerful nation in the EU. There are othe economies like Greece that never should have been allowed in. Now we want out and are being punished by the main players. They seem to forget the debt many owe the UK for helping to overthrow past tyrants.
Margaret Hart
3rd Feb 2018
0
Thanks for voting!
Our country fought two world wars for freedom not to end up,with our laws made by others. It was only about 10 years ago that we finished paying our war debts to the USA and that has made a huge difference to our economy. Many people don’t realise that we borrowed the money from USA rather than were given the support. Germany who caused the mayhem were left to build themselves up again with no penalties and they have certainly done so. Good for them and may they rule there country as they wish but we won the war for everybody and to give us for freedom forever. France are unbelievable as they have never helped themselves just left it to us but now they turn on us. History repeating itself.
Wilf
3rd Feb 2018
0
Thanks for voting!
Yes I agree we stood alone against one of the greatest tyrannies ever and if the USA had not joined us we would certianly have had a problem as would all of Europe. But history has gone and we have paid our debts and we still remember with pride our role in the 20th century. The focus now is to look forward. we need friends and we need to be strong. We have brains in the UK and tenacity and business accumen. We need to get on with Brexit and move forward.
Margaret Hart
3rd Feb 2018
0
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I fully agree we must move forward but preferably a little faster than we are at the moment and with all Westminster remembering just how this country voted and without the unwanted interference of the Civil Service who I think have too much power. It is also time the conservatives stopped stabbing our Prime Minister in the back and give her full support.
viking
1st Feb 2018
2
Thanks for voting!
When negotiating any sort of business deal, never reveal your hand.This is a simple rule that seemingly most people do not understand. If a document is published in advance of the negotiations outlining what we want from Brussels, we loose the advantage and the wily Germans will be given an advantage to be able to block our plans. Yes, correct, the Germans have full control over the other weak member states.

Plans have been published for a Federal Europe [ Germany in charge again ] and to get tied down in this scenario - no thanks !

Be patient we will come shining through. Other disaffected member states will follow us in time.
Wilf
2nd Feb 2018
0
Thanks for voting!
That is what the stronger EU players are so worried about. The UK leaves-the UK thrives...Poland wants to leave..ditto it thrives...Greece...Hungary...in the end only Germany and France will be left...the origional founders!
scandiman
1st Feb 2018
1
Thanks for voting!
Whilst I am concerned about the economic impact, the fact remains that, as always, whatever our politicians do, we will have to put up with it. We voted to leave by a majority of over 3 million. Since then certain factions have been doing their damnedest to prevent it. What I want is a PM with an idea what they want to achieve, and going for it. We don’t know what the future holds and we just have to wait and see. I am also getting really hacked off with the continuing negativity. I want someone to produce a report showing the good things which could happen.
kentrix39
1st Feb 2018
3
Thanks for voting!
We have stood alone before without being under the yolk of Europeans. The people who are afraid have never had a free life. Also the majority that I see on news flashes appear not to be in a position to pay taxes so have nothing to lose being under the yolk of Europeans.

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