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Are you concerned about the economic impact of Brexit?

A leaked Government analysis has forecast that any outcome from Brexit would damage economic growth. 

Britain’s economy will be worse off after Brexit whether it leaves the EU with a free trade deal, single market access, or with no deal at all, according to the leaked document.

The papers prepared by the Department for Exiting the EU and obtained by website Buzzfeed make for sober reading.

According to the report, every UK region would be affected negatively in all the modelled scenarios. The North East, the West Midlands, and Northern Ireland are the three regions facing the biggest falls in economic performance.

The papers also suggested that, even with a comprehensive trade deal, UK growth would be down by 5% over the next 15 years. This would rise to 8% if Britain left without a deal and was forced to fall back on World Trade Organisation rules.

Prime Minister Theresa May has come under fire for a lack of clear Brexit strategy, and many are concerned about the negative impact Brexit fallout could have on jobs, household income, the NHS, and more.

MPs are deeply divided over what the best course of action is.

In recent months the national mood has also undergone a shift, with many expressing a feeling of unease over the outcome of the Brexit negotiations.

Some are calling for a second referendum vote – which even received unexpected support from Brexit supporter Nigel Farage last month.

What do you think? Are you concerned about the economic impact of Brexit? Or do you believe it’s best to stay the course and that any economic uncertainty would be a short-term sacrifice? 

 

Are you concerned about the economic impact of Brexit?

84 people have already voted, what's your opinion? Yes No

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viking
6 days ago
0
Thanks for voting!
Of course George Soros wants the UK to remain. He has the REAL hidden agenda - his stocks &shares plus other investments might be in danger. All his waffle about liking this country etc.etc is a cover up. All he is interested is himself and his wealth.
But to put money towards thwarting the wishes of the people of this country, really does take the biscuit.
scandiman
6 days ago
1
Thanks for voting!
I’ve just heard the LBC interview with Best for Britain CEO, who refused to answer straight questions. I have also been on B for B’s website. Interesting that they appear to want to stop Brexit. That has nothing to do with wanting the best Brexit we can get. In spite of a majority wanting us to leave, they’re determined it won’t happen, regardless of what arrangements are made.
Lionel
6 days ago
2
Thanks for voting!
There is no mechanism I know of to reverse the result of the Referendum no matter how desirable that may be to some worthies. A second in/out referendum has been heavily promoted recently but that is fraught with more constitutional problems than Brexit.

No one may estimate which way the result would go, so it's a massive gamble. If the Remainers got it then how would we deal with the legally binding first result the entirety of which (full Brexit) hasn't yet been delivered. One cannot reverse future history.

Unless we get a full Brexit, and very soon, we will have a constitutional crisis. If the Lords vote down any Brexit related Bill we will have a constitutional crisis

In saying I fear the peace, this is precisely what I feared. Waffle, prevarication, obfuscation and downright lies, all to deceive the electorate. Actually, it seems to me that's the political norm these days, but in a matter so divisive, so important as carrying through a legally binding referendum result we ought to expect more from our hirelings in Whitehall and the Civil Service.

I'll echo something you voiced a number of times. If Brexit is watered down, or is abandoned, then I will never vote again. Reading the popular press comment boards sometimes, 51% of the country feel much the same way. My comment is, that paves the way for civil unrest, which I cannot countenance.
scandiman
11th Feb 2018
1
Thanks for voting!
I find it irritating that people like George Soros are making suggestions which pass unchecked. For example, he claims that Brexit has turned people in Britain against each other. This sweeping statement has no basis in fact. A few of our 60+million are arguing about it, but no more. From my own, admittedly limited observations within my circle, most are indifferent towards something over which they have no control. As for his assumption that the young feel betrayed by the old, who allegedly all voted Leave, where’s the proof? The referendum was secret. No one knows who voted what. A random sample in a survey proves nothing. I am annoyed that the turn-out for the referendum wasn’t higher. On an issue of such importance, it ought to have been much greater.
No-one can tell exactly what the effect of leaving will be until after it happens, any more than we could be certain when we originally chose to join the EEC.
scandiman
10th Feb 2018
4
Thanks for voting!
I voted Leave as result of becoming increasingly anxious about federal EU and the way we had been dragged into it without the electorate having a say. This is not the EEC we originally joined. With the factions involved- Welsh, Irish and the Scots and the complications I can’t see how the mess can be sorted out. Add to that the fact that we don’t even know what Labour’s stance is, it’s a ghastly mess. As for finding the truth, it depends on which ‘truth ‘ is peddled and by whom. Regarding the leaked documents, I suspect a breach of secrecy laws, and someone should be prosecuted. There isn’t one politician I trust. Whatever happens, we will all have to put up with it and muddle through, as we always have. Compared to the immensity of creation and the tide of centuries of human affairs, it doesn’t matter in the slightest. Life will go on.
Lionel
11th Feb 2018
3
Thanks for voting!
18 months or so on from the Referendum Brexit has become a perplexity, a complex of complexities I believe to be beyond the wit of mere politicians to resolve equitably. There are just too many self interests, too many rivalries, too much bitterness and acrimony and worst off all, it has become a national and international political football. I neglected to mention the paid for attempts to thwart Brexit by twisting what the public voted for.

The day after the Referendum I wrote as a foot note to Silver Surfer's long running Brexit debate that I feared the peace more than I was concerned about the 'war.'

You are right to put this blip in British history in context. 1939-45 the media was desperate to play down the seriousness of the war situation, so as not to panic the population. Today, all our media is hell bent on panicking everyone. Sensationalist journalism, which is of itself empty and meaningless, even in the span of a crisis.
RogerH1988
9th Feb 2018
3
Thanks for voting!
Even though I am concerned we must go ahead & get out of the EU. We can sort out the economy later like we always do.
Lionel
10th Feb 2018
2
Thanks for voting!
Very well said Roger. I totally agree.
latin
2 days ago
1
Thanks for voting!
I am not concerned.... but we must not allow our decision to be thwarted by the likes of Tony Blair Allister Campbell ,Mandelson etc plus all the Lib Dems and corrupt Lords .
We the people have spoken,and the BBC and others will stop at nothing to STOP us having independence and to be a self governing trading nation again .
Most successful country’s are not yoked up to this so called DEMOCRATIC corrupt EU !The one that is run by unelected people who we are funding and who are hell bent in destroying us and forcing us into federalism !
They would have kicked us out ages ago had it not been for our taxes flooding to them to fill their deep pockets and allow them to nourish their every whim!
Out taxes are funding the destruction of the real Europe that we all like, just to satisfy corrupt unelected people’s dreams of their Utopia but our worst nightmare.
If those unelected Europrats didn’t stand to gain from their planned corruption then this would not be happening.
Are yourself why they are forcing federalism on nations that haven’t been asked nor do they want !
Lionel
2 days ago
1
Thanks for voting!
A good round up of the situation Latin. Thank you.

The fact is only the original treaty inaugurating the Iron and Steel Community has any basis in international law. All developments not specified and agreed in that treaty have no basis in law.

Also, as far as Britain is concerned, our membership is illegal, according to Magna Carta. That precious bedrock of our freedoms dates from 1215, Among it's many provisions: no foreign prince may be offered any control over this land of England; in the event of a traitorous government it is our duty to step in and require the Monarch to uphold their contract with the people. Sovereignty lies with the people and the Monarch is bound by that oath to hold an out-of-control government to account.

Yes, sovereignty lies with the people, not parliament or the monarch, despite what our M.P's say. That means the likes of Blair, Mandelson and Clegg have violated the basis of our constitution by perpetuating EU membership, enhancing our slavery to Brussels and now trying to thwart the will of a sovereign people. They are traitors, and despite the law being changed to prevent prosecution of traitors, they must, in terms of Magna Carta, be tried and if found guilty executed!
shrew1742
9th Feb 2018
5
Thanks for voting!
I think I am more concerned about becoming a 'UNITED STATES OF EUROPE'. The European Commissioners (Barnier & Co) will not be happy until that happens, and the European flag is flown on Public buildings. He said that the EU did not wish to 'punish' the UK for deciding to leave. Who does he think he is kidding ? Every time he opens his mouth the words come out as ........ The UK will not be allowed to do this, the UK will not be allowed to do that etc etc. The whole of Europe & the UK needs each other (and I expect a few more nations will leave during the next 10/15 years) for trading & security purposes amongst others, so come on 'politicians' stop being spiteful & bitter and come to an amicable agreement quickly for all the 'people' of the UK & other European nations. I am British first and wish to be ruled by British politicians and not European ones. I will probably regret sending this after I have re read it, but I am in one of 'those moods' after listening to Mons. Barnier earlier. Ah well !!!! At least I feel better for it.
Lionel
9th Feb 2018
3
Thanks for voting!
Yes, Shrew, you deserve to feel better because you have articulated what many SS members said when SS held a long debate before the referendum. I was a part of that debate and so many others chimed in to say much as you have.

This is a nation like no other on the planet; it has a history of venturing across the seas, empire building and initiating trade right across the planet. To now try to confine this British people to an existence as a parish just outside Berlin just won't work. That means trouble ahead, or should I say more trouble.

I voted to leave, and am pleased to say that. Britain just does not belong as a part of Europe - yes we may co-operate with European peoples, we may even again go to war with them, but we are not a part of Europe. To think otherwise is a mistake.

Let's not forget that every attempt to unify European states since, and including Charlemagne, has failed. The EU will be no different.
latin
2 days ago
2
Thanks for voting!
Irene88
9th Feb 2018
3
Thanks for voting!
More scaremongering I feel. we need to get on with running our country for our benefit not for the EU. Italy's, Spain's and Greece's economies are suffering because of the EU, Many of them want to get out too.

Are the French and Germans going to stop selling us goods because we don't want to agree with their rules. I think not.
Lionel
10th Feb 2018
3
Thanks for voting!
The French and Germans will continue to sell their wares here, as they've done since the War because they can't afford not to.

Someone must keep the lazy French farms comfortable, and that statement comes from an English farm worker - me.
SovereignInventory
9th Feb 2018
1
Thanks for voting!
I was always concerned that if we were to leave the EU, did we have the right people to negotiate our leaving, I have no confidence in the current people carrying out the withdrawal. One question I would like an answer to is I keep hearing about getting the 'best deal' but there has been no clear definition from anyone what this best deal is. Best deal for who?
Lionel
10th Feb 2018
2
Thanks for voting!
Well, SI, we scavenging around Brussels looking for tit bits of trade, hoping against hope there's going to be a major breakthrough to our advantage. But that won't happen.

In my opinion we must have a hard brexit - that will severely damage both EU economy and that of member nations. They will come back in short order with a sweetheart deal.
scandiman
10th Feb 2018
1
Thanks for voting!
Trouble is, Lionel, we’re dealing with politicians, who don’t do straight talking. The niceties of diplomacy mean compromise, half-truth and dithering. The politicians introduced the idea of hard- and soft-Brexit, which has complicated matters. We voted Leave, just that, not ‘out’ a little bit. None of them has the strength of character to say that we walk away if we don’t get what we want. It will not happen.
Lionel
10th Feb 2018
2
Thanks for voting!
It would happen, full strength, if I were in No 10. I'm not a politician, nor an appeaser, but, like you Scandiman, have a clear view of the way ahead.

In my view there's no such thing as 'soft Brexit.' It's just out of political union and if the EU - and here it's not necessarily European countries who are being difficult - don't like what we demand by way of a shared and mutually beneficial trade deal, them sod 'em. WTO rules hurt the EU more than us.

We have so many countries lined up to trade with us, including China, Russia and America, not to mention the 22 countries of the Commonwealth, that we can do no other than greatly prosper outside the protectionist racket which is the grossly illegal EU.

First step: immediately sack remained politicians. Second step: cream off the top third, at least, of the Civil Service and sack 'em.

We stopped believing leeches could benefit us 150 years ago!
jane63c
9th Feb 2018
0
Thanks for voting!
The clear message is that Brexit will wreck our economy leaving us isolated. It will take decades to recover from the mess created by Tory party in fighting and cowardly leaders.
Our children and their children will suffer.
Our generation had best hope we don't need social care in our declining years.
The irony is that those areas most in favour if Brexit are the ones destined to suffer the most, bittersweet!
Lionel
10th Feb 2018
1
Thanks for voting!
Jane, there's no empiric evidence of the outcome of Brexit, nor remaining in the EU. It's all supposition, manipulated statistics and engineered statements favouring one side or the other.

18 months on from the Referendum we'r prospering as we haven't done in many years. The promise of the future is bright.

That all aside, I do not want my country to be a parish outside Berlin. We are a proud, self determining people and to subjugate ourselves to Berlin, after 2 world wars, is unthinkable. Europe will not foster and promote our economy, based on 40 odd years of experience. No, the Germans ring fence so much industrial stuff to their advantage and French farmers, among the least productive and laziest on the planet, prosper because of our massive and unreasonable financial contributions.

Time to end all that is well passed.
jane63c
10th Feb 2018
0
Thanks for voting!
Thank you for replying Lionel. We will have to agree to disagree.
I am not sure where the prosperity you refer to is taking place, I see little or no evidence of anything other than limbo on the part of business as it holds its breath to see what will happen. On top of that the disintegration of public services thanks to austerity.
There are plenty of jobs but very few full time, well paid jobs or careers for our young people.
I see Brexit leading us towards the end of a queue that has Europe, the USA and China at the front.
Lionel
10th Feb 2018
1
Thanks for voting!
May I say thank you too for replying, and so courteously. Thank you again.

In terms we are already in a transitional period between EU membership and no EU membership. No one yet knows the detail. Yet, the pound sterling has done quite well since the referendum, adjusting it's position against world currencies, making exports cheaper and more desirable. That has benefitted British exporters.

Apart from a very recent tumble, the Stock Market hasn't crashed, as was predicted by Osborne. That tumble was the result of non UK factors at play. More jobs are being created within our economy. As an example, my nearly son-in-law manufactures wrappers for the food industry. He was despairing of his company's position just after the Referendum, but, believe or not, their market has moved from domestic supermarkets to international concerns. It is booming.

The trouble with that company is ... they now need a 24/7 work force and their given strategy is to employ British youngsters. They didn't advertise their vacancies outside UK. But so many of our young people are just not up to the rigours of an industrial work place so the company has needed to employ Europeans who will work these hours.

I'm well acquainted with several local businessmen who find the same problem. They resort to Central/Eastern European employees.

My occupation for very many years, farming, employs Czechs, Poles et al because our young people can't cope with life on a farm.

Now, I'm not repeating press reports, no, these are personal experiences. If many of our young people want the benefits of work then they must work for them. It was ever thus and the Referendum hasn't changed that.

Yes, some of our young people have become stars in the employment firmament, and I know well some locals like that, but many, so many don't want to be discommoded in the workplace and therefore don't make the employment grade.

Like that stats of Brexit/no Brexit, we must look at real time life experience nationally.
jane63c
10th Feb 2018
-1
Thanks for voting!
I admire your optimism and am pleased by the good fortune you are experiencing. There are many others not so fortunate.

As to the implied criticisms of our young people I find that to be rather sad. My experience of working with young people in the last decade has been quite different as they hold down menial jobs to fund their way through education, work without pay to get the experience employers demand but refuse to pay for and then spend months job hunting getting no useful feedback when they are unsuccessful.

We clearly have very different world views, so as I said before we will agree to disagree.
latin
2 days ago
1
Thanks for voting!
jane63c you are typical of the SPINNING remainers!
You really believe the lies and spin of the likes of Tony Blair Allister Campbell Vince Cable Ken Clark and Mark Carney ,the BBC propaganda machine and your own internal voice don’t you ?

Starting your message with a sweeping statement saying ‘the clear message is that Brexit will wreck our economy ‘ is an out and out lie.

Give your evidence for this sweeping statement .


Then give us evidence that whoever you say has made this prediction can back it up with their gaurenteed evidence!

It’s people like you that are destroying this democratic independent nation and are praying we will be taken into an undemocratic super state just to satisfy the needs of corrupt leaders with a hidden agenda .
If you want your tax to go to the creation of a federalist Europe then may I suggest instead of talking our nation down..... you go and live in Brussels!
latin
2 days ago
1
Thanks for voting!
Jane you really need to get out more ,
Stop reading the Guardian and smell the roses,
latin
2 days ago
1
Thanks for voting!
Lionel we waste our time with any of the remainer .We have a person here who is blaming Brexit on austerity!
If that’s how Jane sees things then it’s a waste of time trying to change her / his view point.
She /he must have been under a stone for the last fifteen years !
You have to admit these remoaners blame absolutely every daily negative happening on Brexit it’s just a continuous stream of lies from them day after day.
They sure are thick skinned though.
Lionel
2 days ago
2
Thanks for voting!
'They sure are thick skinned though.'

Or are they well paid by outside forces such as the EU and Soros?
jane63c
2 days ago
0
Thanks for voting!
Lot's of sweeping statements in your response too!
Suffice to say one of my sources has a strong financial and legal background in global business and is not a political or media person.
I appreciate there as many good brains on your side of the argument and as many 'liars' - Johnson, Gove, Farage to name but three and then let's not forget the Daily Mail.
I won't engage further as I realise we both take opposing views and we will be unlikely to change each other's minds. However, I respect your right to hold those views.
latin
1 days ago
-1
Thanks for voting!
Rely....only one?
That makes your views right Jane does it?
Please tell us all the benefits of a federalist Europe Jain,maybe you could even ask your friend to elaborate on the matter,
latin
1 days ago
0
Thanks for voting!
That should have been really!
latin
1 days ago
0
Thanks for voting!
Interesting you call people liars ,could we have your written evidence?
Sounds like you love Corbin the commi ,Blair the Unions Allister Campbell and the Lib Dem’s and our former and present chancellor and Ken Clark .
All have their vested interests in the EU ,take Clark and Heseltine,you should easily be able to trace their dealings with the EU !
Once again bribed with our money,it’s so easy when you can bribe people and country’s with our tax payers cash .
The Eu Dream of a Federalist state would not exist if it wasn’t for them bribing country’s and people with cash that isn’t theirs to waste on their Utopian dream .
ArthurB4
8th Feb 2018
2
Thanks for voting!
I am concerned with Brexit only because we are not being told the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.
Political games should not be involved in leaving the UK.
If we had the facts in the first place perhaps the vote may not have been a vote of no confidence in politicians in general.
There is infighting amongst MP's of the same parties can not agree. Also these leaked reports, why is it we never get to know who has actually leaked them?
Or are they just put out to frighten the public or just to gain political points.
Lionel
8th Feb 2018
3
Thanks for voting!
Agreed Arthur. I believe the primary qualification for a job as a politician is a supreme ability to deceive. They find a gift for confusion quite useful too.
latin
2 days ago
0
Thanks for voting!
I am concerned with ‘REMAIN’ as we are not being told the truth ,the real truth,
Arthur since when did a politician tell the truth ?

Well one thing we do know Arthur is the the unelected undemocratic so called leaders in Brussels are hell bent in creating a Federalist state of Europe that no one has asked or voted for,!
That is enough in its self for you to be able to decide what you want your taxes to be spent on and what you wNt for your country .
Truth or no truth from remainers and brexiteers that should be enough for you to decide which side you will fall down on!
It’s not hard Arthur.... in fact it’s very simple .Dont depend on any Politicians of any party to tell you what to think ,decide ‘do you want us under Federalism or not ?’
Simple.
Lionel
2 days ago
2
Thanks for voting!
On the matter of raising taxes in Great Britain, this is a very thorny issue. Cromwell had signed into law that only Parliament may raise taxes on the people of England. This was in response to Charles 1 raising money for his military. Even today, if the Chancellor proposes in a budget to raise taxation on something or a group of people and M.Ps don't agree, then it doesn't happen. Re: George Osborne's Pasty and caravan tax.

For our Parliament to agree to raise taxes on the British people and channel a chunk of that to an illegal and foreign power with such control as to demand a levy is an illegal and traitorous act. The British people are being taxed at one remove by this illegal and foreign power.

Little wonder Blair repealed the traitor act!

But wait a minute. The Queen signed the accession document to our membership of Europe. She signed the document agreeing the British people pay taxes to Brussels?

Where does this corruption end?
The Welshman
8th Feb 2018
2
Thanks for voting!
Big deal! IF we believed the media`s take on those figures, we would be worse off by .33% a year!. However, I for one don`t believe the anti-brexit message constantly being pushed by the media.
Lionel
10th Feb 2018
1
Thanks for voting!
latin
2 days ago
0
Thanks for voting!
Poor old Authur does !
Poppy1010
7th Feb 2018
1
Thanks for voting!
The government said that if we voted to leave the EU, we would go into a deep ression. So I don't believe what they are saying now, I think they are trying to frighten us into staying in the single market, that would stop UK from trading outside Europe, which is what we did not vote for
Poppy1010
7th Feb 2018
2
Thanks for voting!
The government said if we voted to leave the EU we would slide into a deep resession, but we never did, so I don't believe what is being said now, I think they are trying to make us stay in the single market, which is not a good idea, as we will not be able to trade outside europe
jane63c
9th Feb 2018
0
Thanks for voting!
We haven't left yet, the recession us brewing for when we do.
Lionel
10th Feb 2018
1
Thanks for voting!
We can't know that as fact until we've left the EU and the Customs Union for good. All statistics and predictions are just that ... predictions, and we should know what astrologer's predictions are like - useless.
jane63c
10th Feb 2018
-1
Thanks for voting!
I don't think we are relying on astrologers here!
latin
2 days ago
1
Thanks for voting!
No Jain,we were told we would immediately be sent into major recession and jobs would be lost .Stop twisting things ,
It was not said when we are out .....it was immediately after vote ,
Lionel
2 days ago
0
Thanks for voting!
viking
4th Feb 2018
2
Thanks for voting!
I think that Glynys has a short memory or is too young to remember that there has always been a shortage of labour to pick crops etc. Farmers themselves acknowledge this, and has little to do with Brexit.
Living in the country and seeing what goes on, it makes little sense to employ foreign or British labour, when one machine can do the work of 20/30 people, the latest sugar beet monster can devour a field in a few hours and produce a product which is clean and ready to be transported.
Before any naggers, yes a raspberry picker is in the pipeline !!
Yodama
5th Feb 2018
2
Thanks for voting!
I remember as a young girl, during school holidays and weekends we would help the farmers out by going potato picking and hay bale carting.
Back breaking work but we had a lot of fun doing it, also a little pocket money was always welcome.
I wonder if kids today do the same? Perhaps not if you say the impersonal machines are doing it all.
Sigh! Ah the halcyon days!
ArthurB4
8th Feb 2018
1
Thanks for voting!
I love the back in the day memories reminds me of my grandad.
Lo and behold I am a grandad doing and saying the same things about when I was a lad.
Lionel
8th Feb 2018
0
Thanks for voting!
You're quite right, the labour shortage for seasonal farm work existed before ever I went working on farms in the '70's. Yodama is also quite correct in that harvest time village kids and where possible their mothers would be recruited to pick potatoes, pick fruit, feed pigs and calves whilst the stockmen were working at harvest. I was one of those kids.

The labour crisis has it's roots with the War Cabinet of 1943. Knowing they could win the War they began to plan for victory. Some aspects of those plans are obvious - The National Health Service, the Butler Education Act 0f 1944, welfare reforms, but another, more sinister decision was taken.

The improved vehicle technology gained during the War was to be refined and used for farm equipment. Farm workers, traditionally living on the farm were to be relocated to Council houses in nearby towns so when the machines made them redundant they would take factory jobs.

But, in the event, a few short years after the War farm workers were fleeing the land and taking their families with them. Hence, traditional seasonal labour went with them. That was an unplanned and unprepared for consequence of yet another government cock-up!

Europeans, mainly students, had been working on farms here on a short term work permit for many years before Central and Southern Europe was admitted to the EU in 2004. All that did was increase the supply of cheap labour - yes, it mostly is cheap labour - and farms have made much money from them.

I think it is as much the threat of needing to pay the minimum wage to Brits as it is a loss of cheap labour that is making farmers squeal. But, let's face it, it doesn't take much to make a farmer squeal - just send them an invoice and you may need to pre-book an ambulance for them.
Lionel
8th Feb 2018
1
Thanks for voting!
Me too, Arthur, albeit step grand children, but I was in the family before they were born and so they know nothing else.

It was those early years as a kiddie working as seasonal labour that made me yearn to work on farms as a job. But my rural upbringing was brought to an end when my father moved us to his home, London.

Yet, as soon as I could I returned to my roots and got a farm job and stayed in that industry for many years.
latin
2 days ago
1
Thanks for voting!
Exact,and I am a Farmer!
Lionel
2 days ago
2
Thanks for voting!
You'd better not read my rather derogatory comments about farmers above! But then that was my experience over many years.

Whereabouts, roughly do you farm?
latin
1 days ago
1
Thanks for voting!
Lincolnshire.Feel free to speak your mind .
The NFU are behind much of the negativity coming out of the EU and Farming.
It’s one huge scam and every remainer wants something for nothing!
Take the set aside debacle.
latin
1 days ago
2
Thanks for voting!
I do agree re arable farmers but not the poor hill farmers.
Lionel
1 days ago
2
Thanks for voting!
Although originally from West Norfolk, I began farming in Suffolk, mixed and 250 arable, then Thirsk managing a large highly innovative pig unit and onto a 7,000 acre group farm tractor/combine driving and managing 1000 sows. Thence to Eire for old style dairy on small mixed farms, back to the group farm where, as well as managing pigs became of the flying squad dodging all over the group. Over the years gained a nice rounded experience of farming.

I agree about the NFU, there's several tales I could tell about that one. Former Farm Workers Union boss Boddy grew up with my mother. Had occasion to phone him because the Union had done nothing about a substantial claim for back pay of mine. Just reminded him of Mother asking if he would like to me to ask her about him? Got my claim settled pretty damn quick.

The EU has been a disaster for British farming. It favours the big spreads and corporate interests over the smaller farmer which is wrong. I've often wondered if there's a back room policy to drive farmers of say less than 500 acres off their land and amalgamate to create a much bigger spread. Certainly seems to be evidence over many years.

Once we're truly out there's one heck of a shake up coming for British farming, and in most ways it will be a good thing.
Lionel
1 days ago
1
Thanks for voting!
Ah, I must say here I haven't any experience of hill farming, although I know there's little profit in. There's exceptions to every good idea.
Yodama
4th Feb 2018
7
Thanks for voting!
A centuries old and well known form of disseminating propaganda is by leaking documents, or in modern day format "fake news." Strange how "Buzzfeed." got their hands on it!

These documents which just "happen" to become centre news, is a highly efficient way of orchestrating changes in public opinion to achieve the desired result. The document purports to be written by someone or a body who appear to have arrived at their conclusions by serious and thorough investigation.

In this case, a fantasy pill we are all expected to swallow.

GREAT Britain is doing very well and seems to be thriving.
Business is booming in the UK say the Captains of Industry. The upswing in global growth has confounded the naysayers, our economy remains resilient in spite of Brexit concerns.
We must LEAVE the single market or we may as well stay in the Union. If not, they (Brussels) would still have a stranglehold on us.



New business and new orders are flooding in. The Pound has hit a high against the dollar for the first time since the Brexit vote.

What else are they cooking up behind the scenes to overturn the democratic will of the peoples of this country.

We must NEVER become the lackeys of an unelected bunch of people who do not have our best interests at heart. Our sovereignty must NEVER be relinquished.

If anyone is doubting that the BRITISH HAVE BACKBONES OF STEEL should take a look back in history.

We don't need to kowtow to anybody, especially a bunch of Brussels Bureaucrats who's need for a Superstate of Europe is collapsing about their ears. They need us more than we need them.
Yodama
8th Feb 2018
2
Thanks for voting!
Just heard on the news, (RT, not the BBC,( British Biased Corporation.) Leaked punishment plan document by the EU is "discourteous " says David Davis.
Blatant scare tactics by the EU.

Here it comes....... the EU beast is emerging in its true colours. Nasty, bullying and blackmailing their way through these negotiations. When we were kids we were afraid of the monster under the bed, now we are all grown up, we see the EU as just a bunch of weak shadows.
Bring it on! Walk away now Britain.

I feel for Theresa May, back like a rod of iron , under more pressure than any person should be faced with. I wouldn't want her job . Knifed by her own colleagues when they should be behind her. For shame!
Lionel
10th Feb 2018
2
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That's a good analysis Yodama. I couldn't disagree with it.
bidrick
3rd Feb 2018
6
Thanks for voting!
I'm concerned about the way our Government is allowing the EU to dictate the terms, instead of cutting back our contributions if they won't moderate their demands.
jeffsoo
3rd Feb 2018
6
Thanks for voting!
If we are unable to negotiate a good deal we should just walk away
Poppy1010
7th Feb 2018
2
Thanks for voting!
I totally agree with that, then we don't have to pay this totally outrageous money to the eu
scandiman
2nd Feb 2018
4
Thanks for voting!
As regards the recruitment problems of NHS, if we made NHS jobs financially rewarding, if we encouraged young people to feel it was a worthwhile career, recruitment problems would disappear. Instead some are not that well paid and work very long and stressful hours. So many want university, an easy degree and expect to make a lot of money with little effort. No wonder we have to look abroad for staff who have a strong work ethic and a determination to get on.
latin
2 days ago
2
Thanks for voting!
scandiman ....We would not need all these nurses doctors teachers etc etc if immigration was not wildly out of control !
Remember the National Health Service is NATIONAL not INTERNATIONAL ,we are treating the world .
We are educating the WORLD,
Our country has not got the means or infrastructure for the millions flooding our country!
Aren’t they supposed to stay in the first safe country they arrive in? What happened to that rule,oh I remember it didn’t fit the EU agenda.....how to stupid of me to think the EU would stick to its word!
Lionel
2 days ago
2
Thanks for voting!
There's much more honour among thieves.
viking
2nd Feb 2018
7
Thanks for voting!
The Remoaners have conveniently short memories. Dave our then P.M. went to Brussels and tried to negotiate some reforms of the EEC,he was rudely sent away with a flea in his ear.
The EEC do not wish to reform their wasteful ways.
Ironically certain member state leaders have now said they wish we would stay !! They were given a chance once !!
Let us get out as soon as possible, and regain our rightful controls.

Previous remarks about doctors and nurses leaving this country. They are now being recruited back to their own countries with promises of big pay boosts for their increased knowledge and training obtained whilst in the NHS, [at our expense of course}.
Lynsey
2nd Feb 2018
5
Thanks for voting!
We have to take back some control about who comes to this country . We are a small island literally bursting at the seams. It’s our schools hospitals and housing that are crumbling under the weight of these excessive numbers now living here . Naturally it’s going to cause resentment so something has to be done, unless we all pay a monthly premium for our healthcare like they do in the USA. What’s the alternative? It’s unsustainable in the long term.
scandiman
2nd Feb 2018
5
Thanks for voting!
No-one can foretell the future, not now nor when we joined EEC. We have to plan and, to a degree, hope for the best. Nothing in life is guaranteed. We have to stop being so timid. Our so called partners have no idea about negotiation, all they do is make demands and we cave in. Some of our politicians are using every piece of trickery, parliamentary delaying tactic, lies and prevarication to obstruct the result of the referendum. Leave means just that, out, not half in. If we end up not leaving after all, my wife and I will never vote in any election again. As it is, we have no faith in any politician of any party. They’re all liars.
GlynysH
1st Feb 2018
-5
Thanks for voting!
We should not be coming out of the EU. We have benefited greatly. It’s going to wreck our NHS as EU nurses and doctors are leaving. Who wants to work in a country that doesn’t want them. It’s time people realised that we don’t rule the waves anymore. If Brexiteers think that trade deals are going well. Think again all these countries outside of the EU will want freedom of movement. When are farmers can’t get their crops out and they end up rotting in the ground because Brits are too lazy to do the work. Our hotels won’t get staff. Let’s see how many of those moaning the Eastern Europeans are taking our jobs will actually take the jobs very few. Why not take us back to the 20 century. We will not get what we want from the EU it 1 against 27. We won’t even be at the table while they are discussing it. We will end up having to follow EU rules during transition.
Lionel
2nd Feb 2018
4
Thanks for voting!
Glynis, I'm sorry to say your views on British farming are not born out by fact. I worked in British farming a lot of years.

Since the War the entire demographic of farming has changed. Gypsies and Travellers, along with farmer workers wives, were the traditional source of seasonal labour. My first farm, 250 acres, pigs, cattle and dairy, had five farm workers and their families in 1951. By the early 70's advances in machinery meant I was the only one, and we didn't need seasonal labour any more.

My last farm, actually 7 farms totalling 7,000 acres. 6 farms had one farm worker and the main farm four; we were the flying squad, so to speak, flitting between farms all year round ploughing, drilling, combining ... whatever. In my case I also had 1,000 head of pigs to manage.

Gypsies found more profitable enterprises like scrap yards. Men who had been made redundant from farms moved to work in towns and cities, their wives, office, shop or other white collar jobs. The Irish were first to fill seasonal roles left by them, organised into work gangs by gang masters. The Irish went home as their country prospered. Then Eastern European labour became available and was similarly organised. They make enough in 4 months to live like kings for the rest of the year at home.

The Brits are now so very much urban dwellers. To expect that they be shipped quite considerable distances into rural areas, housed, fed etc as well as paid at least the national minimum wage all at a farmer's cost is unrealistic. Farm produce would be so over priced no one would buy British food. Result? More food imports. Besides which so many Brits are quite unfit and therefore unsuited to farm work. It's one thing to work out in a gym but quite another to graft one a farm.

It's not a matter of Brits being lazy I can assure you. It's just not practical nor an economic possibility that Brits could fill these roles. Because Central Europeans may earn so much money in such a short time they will keep on coming here. The problem is those that don't go home and find our Benefits instead.
MorrisandDoris
6th Feb 2018
-2
Thanks for voting!
Typical snowflake comment ,suggest you go to Calais there are hundreds trying to get here and we hate them, but still they try to come to here.
jane63c
10th Feb 2018
0
Thanks for voting!
Schroedinger's immigrants!
latin
2 days ago
1
Thanks for voting!
Glynis..... is your surname KINNOCK?
PhilipM
1st Feb 2018
6
Thanks for voting!
I feel that all this scare mongering is a bit like the Millennium Bug, "The world will fail, Planes will fall out the sky etc.. and yet nothing happened.

How much money does Malta, Cyprus, Romania or Bulgaria donate to the E.U. ? I have just returned from Cyprus and they love the E.U. for all the money being spent on the Island. Even in the Northern bit, invaded by Turkey the E.U. flag is flying as they (the E.U.) re-build the old walls around Famagusta, and they (Northern Cyprus) nor Turkey are in the E.U..
latin
2 days ago
1
Thanks for voting!
Philip one thing you fail to mention ,we are paying for all that,not the EU ,it has no money it’s our taxes paying to rebuild all these country’s while our own is crumbling .
We are also paying about £1000 a year each for world aid while we see all our infrastructures failing due to the fact the country’s people we are supposedly aiding are all coming here,
What an utter shambles the whole thing is and will continue to be!
No government has the guts to sort us out and we will end up having a civil war.
Wilf
1st Feb 2018
7
Thanks for voting!
I for one am optimistic. we will be fine-This is GREAT BRITAIN for goodness sake. Lets get a bit of backbone again! The global economy is doing well. WE are already the 5th largest economy in the world. We have a lot of expertise and brains and people here work. What is rubbish is our politicions are all minows in the tide of history just when we need an other Winston Churchill! I voted to stay. My view was why leave when the staying option is probably...the safe bet. The more I read and look at the situation nobody has ever had a clue what would happen if we did leave and as I said I think it will be fine.
Lionel
2nd Feb 2018
3
Thanks for voting!
I too am very optimistic, Wilf ... just a little short of joyful.

Once the politicking has been put to bed British businessmen will have the globe to roam around doing deals and supplying need. More, we will be able to act as middlemen between nations who cannot of themselves be seen to trade.

We have a Commonwealth of 2 billion people, under developed and desperate to join the developed world. They have the food we need to trade for electronics and expertise. They also have so many raw materials we can yet use.

Our financial industry with it's years of experience in financing and underwriting may organise the world's trade. I take the view the EU is a protection racket which has stifled British enterprise for two generations. Be rid of it and let us learn to trade again and prosper. We Brits taught the world how to do it so no one knows better than us what we're about.

Theresa May heralded a new Golden age of trade with China - I didn't know there had been a prior Golden Age. But her vision is too narrow. This is the time of the Brits. If our politicians have got the guts to stop politicking and walk away from Europe in one day, then they will come chasing after our friendship and the world will be an open door to us.
Wilf
2nd Feb 2018
1
Thanks for voting!
The issue I think Lionel is businessmen are and always have been going around the world looking for new clients.The difference is the suppliers will chaneg. When I was a boy we got NZealand butter...we still get it but we also get other butters. Now when we leave the EU I am presuming the EU butter will become more expensive so we will revert back to our buddies in NZ (who we should always have stuck with as they are our kin and brethern anyway!)
Lionel
2nd Feb 2018
2
Thanks for voting!
You're absolutely right Wilf. We should never, not ever, have let go our Commonwealth suppliers and markets. We ditched Australia and New Zealand in a moment in favour of the EU. Big mistake. I thought so at the time.

Yes we have always been looking globally for new business, but the EU I understand hedged us about with the demand that our trade should be restricted to them unless we wanted to pay tariffs for importing from outside the EU. Our food became, and is, pro rata much more expensive than it need be.

A couple of years ago one of our rail franchises needed new locos and carriages. They negotiated with Bombardier in UK but the deal was referred to Brussels who, quite unsurprisingly, ruled that a German company should have the contract. But there was a problem. Bombardier had already developed the required level of technology and our rail franchise was required to pay the German company a substantial premium to develop the same.

We're a trading nation and have been for 400 years. The world, specifically the Empire, has been our market. To limit our enterprises and businessmen to 370 million over developed Europeans when they were trading with a world that needed and was prepared to pay for our wares was a crime.

It was, when understood in the round, a treasonous act.

And so it is I rejoice our businessmen have been unshackled to once again trade with the world. This can only be of benefit to us Brits.
Wilf
2nd Feb 2018
1
Thanks for voting!
Agreed with your comments Lionel. It could be the best of both worths if we can negotiate with the EU to keep their tarrifs low at the same time as trading with the rest of the world.
Lionel
2nd Feb 2018
1
Thanks for voting!
Well, Wilf, I believe we are in a stronger negotiating position then the Eu at present. Put simply, they need us more than we need them, and it has been that way for several decades. I believe Theresa May is yet able to play her cards close to her chest and win a great deal - no tariffs.

As far as the rest of the world is concerned for trade with us I liken it to our three Collies. On some outings with them they're restricted to paths beside crops and they know it. Another walk there's fifty or so acres of grass land where they may run free as this breed must. At that time even my eldest, the one in the images who is just fourteen, will, with his barely younger son, chase a muntjac deep and bring it down.

Perhaps that's not a nice thought ... but the analogy is ... set free even the impossible is possible.

I've wanted for so long to set our industry and commerce free of the restrictions of Europe; let them roam free across the planet to do what they do best. Business. That business brings home benefits to us Brits - the sale of technology, underwriting by say, Lloyds, manufacturing and more. That means greater employment, fatter pay checks and a great place at the world's negotiating tables.

Wilf, your post mentions a Great Britain. I truly believe there's enough Great Britons remaining to make this work for Britons; for us even in my life time, to become again a world economic power. I'll quote Shakespeare's Henry the long dead ... and let go the dogs of war. Yes and yes again, let go these young lions so couped up by Europe, let them go. Like my dogs set free of restraint they will accomplish amazing things.

When the referendum result was announced - yes I sat up all night - my joy was complete. Not because Roof Top Crow had been proved so wrong, no, but because this nation was about to be liberated.

You must have read by now I'm not of British descent but being the seventh generation immigrant I have become so very British and I love it. I love this country and it's people and my heart's desire is to witness a prosperity it may yet achieve.

Let go the dogs of war ... and bring back the world wide trade.
Wilf
3rd Feb 2018
0
Thanks for voting!
We still are a world economic power Lionel the 5th largest bt China and USA dwarf us and so do Germany and Japan. Its all about the rise and fall of the great powers. The 19th Century was GBs, The 20th USA and the "21st will be China. There is a tectonic shift to the Pacific-China and Japan and California. Nothing we can do apart from...as you say...get out there and trade!
latin
2 days ago
0
Thanks for voting!
What happens if we stay Wild?
Unelected corrupt people will march into Federalism under the rule of Germany.
The country’s that are not speaking out are being bought by our tax money,the unelected Eurocrats (mostly failed politicians trying to make names for themselves and on a get rich quick scheme) dish out our taxes to all the failing backward country’s as though money was going out of fashion!
They know that money buys votes ,You and I aren’t asked what we want them to do with our cash ,and believe me they don’t give a hoot what you and I think or want just so long as the UK stays subservient and keeps up its huge cash payments,

Forget it if you think they will spend on us,this great plan is about themselves and the creation of a Federalist state!
What other strong nation outside the EU would entertain giving over their nation and freedoms to a load of failed has bean Eurocrats to so destroy them with Federalism?
Those at the top who spin the lies are the ones with vested interests in the EU .The likes of Clark ,Blair Heseltine,Mandelson etc etc all have interests and are being paid by the EU to do their bidding.
Remember the EU has nothing it’s our money not theirs and it needs stopping and spending here at home !
Wilf
1 days ago
0
Thanks for voting!
I agree monies need to be spent here at home but we have our own fools as politicials. Look at bth the main parties and you couldnt make it UK. Corbyn looks like he was a stooge for the KGB and May and co couldnt run a bath let alone a country.
Margaret Hart
1st Feb 2018
2
Thanks for voting!
I don’t think anybody expected this negotiation to be as complicated and there is no need for what is happening. It seems Europe expect us to pay a hugefineforwanting to be governed by our own country again as we used to be. We have everything owed all the way through plus we have paid much more than many plus we have paid towards buildings and many other things which we shall no longer receive any benefit from. They obviously wish to punish us for not wanting what the do but when we joined this organisation it was supposed to be a ?Trade organisation which it has never turned out to be. When we had our own business in a smaller way we were in a trade organisation and it helped us enormously and could have helped Europe but it is obvious that that was never the plan it was just words to start a trap and we fell for it. Trading organisations become joint big buyers so they have strength in numbers but this never happened.
Wilf
2nd Feb 2018
0
Thanks for voting!
Agreed Margaret. the top individuals in the Eu wanted a federal Europe. Big mistake. We are all too different as countries for that. Germany has a GDP of 2 x Uk and France so it is by far the most powerful nation in the EU. There are othe economies like Greece that never should have been allowed in. Now we want out and are being punished by the main players. They seem to forget the debt many owe the UK for helping to overthrow past tyrants.
Margaret Hart
3rd Feb 2018
0
Thanks for voting!
Our country fought two world wars for freedom not to end up,with our laws made by others. It was only about 10 years ago that we finished paying our war debts to the USA and that has made a huge difference to our economy. Many people don’t realise that we borrowed the money from USA rather than were given the support. Germany who caused the mayhem were left to build themselves up again with no penalties and they have certainly done so. Good for them and may they rule there country as they wish but we won the war for everybody and to give us for freedom forever. France are unbelievable as they have never helped themselves just left it to us but now they turn on us. History repeating itself.
Wilf
3rd Feb 2018
0
Thanks for voting!
Yes I agree we stood alone against one of the greatest tyrannies ever and if the USA had not joined us we would certianly have had a problem as would all of Europe. But history has gone and we have paid our debts and we still remember with pride our role in the 20th century. The focus now is to look forward. we need friends and we need to be strong. We have brains in the UK and tenacity and business accumen. We need to get on with Brexit and move forward.
Margaret Hart
3rd Feb 2018
0
Thanks for voting!
I fully agree we must move forward but preferably a little faster than we are at the moment and with all Westminster remembering just how this country voted and without the unwanted interference of the Civil Service who I think have too much power. It is also time the conservatives stopped stabbing our Prime Minister in the back and give her full support.
viking
1st Feb 2018
2
Thanks for voting!
When negotiating any sort of business deal, never reveal your hand.This is a simple rule that seemingly most people do not understand. If a document is published in advance of the negotiations outlining what we want from Brussels, we loose the advantage and the wily Germans will be given an advantage to be able to block our plans. Yes, correct, the Germans have full control over the other weak member states.

Plans have been published for a Federal Europe [ Germany in charge again ] and to get tied down in this scenario - no thanks !

Be patient we will come shining through. Other disaffected member states will follow us in time.
Wilf
2nd Feb 2018
0
Thanks for voting!
That is what the stronger EU players are so worried about. The UK leaves-the UK thrives...Poland wants to leave..ditto it thrives...Greece...Hungary...in the end only Germany and France will be left...the origional founders!
scandiman
1st Feb 2018
2
Thanks for voting!
Whilst I am concerned about the economic impact, the fact remains that, as always, whatever our politicians do, we will have to put up with it. We voted to leave by a majority of over 3 million. Since then certain factions have been doing their damnedest to prevent it. What I want is a PM with an idea what they want to achieve, and going for it. We don’t know what the future holds and we just have to wait and see. I am also getting really hacked off with the continuing negativity. I want someone to produce a report showing the good things which could happen.
kentrix39
1st Feb 2018
3
Thanks for voting!
We have stood alone before without being under the yolk of Europeans. The people who are afraid have never had a free life. Also the majority that I see on news flashes appear not to be in a position to pay taxes so have nothing to lose being under the yolk of Europeans.

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