Would you vote differently in a new EU Referendum?

Agreed! I never voted to go into the so called 'Common Market' in the first place. As I understood it at the time, it was to facilitate fair trade. That's a laugh! It just tied us up in more and more red tape as time went on and it morphed into what it was: a mess!

I think the government will really struggle with this. Neither Norway or Switzerland have managed it

Hi Wilf, yes, Cameron thought he could persuade Merkel and Juncker to accept Britain leaving , in return for which he would lend the EU Bank 1 million Euros and Britain would provide Schools when the fighting ceased. Osborne said the EU 1 million would be ringfenced....do you believe that .???

That wasn't good enough , so Cameron said he would accept 6 thousand immigrants over a period, 2,000 have arrived in the UK. Also, Cameron donated to the EU 6 million said to be paid to
Turkey

Could not agree more. People have no idea what they have let us in for.

I think we have been strong for some time. We are the 5th largest economy globally. The 4th is the German economy which is 2.5 x larger economically than the UK and we will never grow to that size. think of their manufacturing base-Audi, Mercedes, Volkswagen etc

Before we joined we were the sick man of Europe. Manufacturing was shrinking and our economy was in a dreadful state.
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We joined the EC as it was at the time, and over the last 40 years the UK has become the second wealthiest country in EU membership.

Before the 23rd June we were the 5th wealthiest country in the world. We are now the 6th.

Give it up Mr Crow, you lost the vote to stay in the EU and the petition for another referendum, so get over it, and if it's still a problem for you move to France or Germany to live.
Trouble with that though is when they have their referendums on the Exit issue, you can start all over again with writing your views for these countries not to leave the EU.
Just think about though it could keep you busy for years!

We are still full members of the EU and will be for at least 2 years and 2 months. I understand that the petition for a second referendum will be put in front of parliament later this year.

The leave campaign or 52%
It is a strange situation, the two main leaders of the Leave campaign Boris and Gove have both left the campaign in disgrace. The next two, Grayling and Patel are in hiding. The 2 MEPs that were involved, Farage and Hannan have now slunk back to Brussels. I have no doubt that they will continue to draw their salary and expenses from the organization they describe as corrupt.

The Leave campaign have left behind a victim, Andrea Leadsom. Andrea claims she would be able to run the country as the next PM. Andrea is middle ranking MP who distorted her CV to get into politics, massaged her city background to give herself credibility and has shown an extraordinary level of naivety when being interviewed by a journalist from the Times. The Leave campaign have dumped on her from a great height, her reputation will be ruined by this whole affair.

The Remain campaign or 48%
It is very strange, we now have a situation where the chaos and forthcoming recession caused by the 52% vote will have to be managed by the 48% vote who wanted to remain.
The same applies to negotiating the future of the UK outside of the EU. It will have to be managed by the 48% who wanted to remain.

I will not respond to a suggestion that a UK resident should leave the UK if they do not like living here.

You are delusional! The £ is the lowest currency going since the vote, it will only get much worse. We will get no help financially or militarily.

Guess you're on that stuff again!

Do you really think our joining the EEC had much to do with wealth formation in the UK? It seems, rather sadly, you do. I'm amazed!

Domestic wealth formation - which by the way is a dreadful misnomer - was kick started under Thatcher. She brought rampant unions to heel and provided the financial impetus for industry and commerce to thrive. Now, I understand you were already in business in the Thatcher years. Thus, I thought you would have known that.

The EEC, and later the EU, have never been great trading partners for the UK. The figures prove that statement, and you do so like figures. We've run a trading deficit with them since we joined. Tell me I'm wrong, but with evidence.

To say we should hand over billions a year to be members of an elite trading club, actually it's a broken protection racket, just to make a massive trading deficit is nonsense. In your own words, you're a businessman, do you not see that?

And worse, to stay in that loss making club, the elite which heads it wants to rule this nation, notice the words here, rule not govern, we as a people who were never asked if we wanted external rule, are expected to submit to heavy handed diktats from Brussels? Diktats which daily change the way we live, whom we are required to live along side, the food we consume and what we may buy in our Euro shops, daily change this country so that it is unrecognisable from even ten years ago. Are you on something good again?

Roof Top, our agriculture is failing, our industry has failed, we no longer mine coal (no, I'm not a follower of those climate change fanatics), our oil was mostly used to fund unemployment for the purpose of providing a pool of labour for business, our own fishing industry has been raped by Europe, our service sector, the largest we now have, is about to be under cut by China.

Central planning failed spectacularly in Soviet Russia. It has failed on the same scale for the EU.

You may have made a lot of money from our being members of the EU. But you are in the minority.

Please allow me to tell you this. I was in a hamlet in Swaledale when the ship yards closed. I was still there, as a shepherd, when Thatcher closed the coal mines. We were six miles from the A1. For almost two years the people of this hamlet boarded ship builders and miners heading south for work. They slept on a settee, on the floor. We would feed them, offer a bath, give them our phone to call home to say they were OK. That's not just me, that's true of all the dozen houses in that hamlet. And we did that from a good heart, not a rotten bank account.

I've seen those men cry in despair, and comforted them. I had a two up and two down cottage. One night we slept eight men, as well as ourselves.

This was the EU. Oh I know the arguments about our coal being too expensive, usual drivel. I know the arguments about our ships being too expensive. Political speak to achieve an end - further integration with Europe. If you're willing to speak truth, Roof Top, that was all a lie!!

Roof Top, let's get a little, just a little, reality into your defences of our continued membership of the EU.

The EU was born in a lie, continued in a lie, we joined under a lie from Heath and remained under a lie from Wilson. There is no prosperity from living a lie!

We must live in truth. There is no other way.

Have you been snorting a banned substance?

Silence is the loud reply. Speaks volumes, wouldn't you agree Roof Top?

Sorry. I disagree. We are already belittled in Europe as a result of the referendum and are becoming a laughing stock in the wider world. We are already seeing the dire consequences wrought by the lies of the Brexit campaign. The Stock Exchange and credit ratings have already fallen. The NHS will lose out, not only from the lies about the disappearing millions, but also the disappearance of skilled and talented medics from overseas. Instead of putting back the Great into Great Britain, we will revert to Little England since both Scotland and NI will move towards Independence. Wales may well follow suit. As for the Falklands, Gibraltar....?

Maggie Thatcher had to question the Accounts of the EU every year and Britain would have a rebate. Cameron and Osborne LENDS the EU Bank 1 million Euros , ringfenced according to Osborne. Never mind that Doctors will probably think of leaving the Country because they have not been given a rise in recognition of their hard work at the NHS, or the Steel Works be taken over by the Government .

Agree with you 100%.

Probably because the vote didn't go your way !

Ooops! sorry meant to click on Pam1960

Following your posts, I think you are better placed to judge what constitutes whinging and whining than most other Silversurfers.

The tech stuff is the same as the equipment and software that thousands of oldies use to stay in touch with family and friends in the UK and throughout the world.

I assume your version of jaunting includes working in volunteer programmes in southern Europe, Africa, Asia and South America.
For me, jaunting is typified by Saga Holidays worldwide and Viking Riverboat Cruises. Self-indulgent holidays for the elderly with disposable funds.

Stop for a moment and think about the countries that have high youth unemployment.
Greece created its problems by not collecting tax. It was made worse by fraud at the highest level.
The strength of the Euro stabilised their economy. It is still in crisis but it is not getting worse.

Spanish banks invested billions into property on the coast. It crashed the economy.
The strength of the Euro stabilised their economy. It is recovering.

Irish banks invested billions into property throughout the country. It crashed the economy.
The strength of the Euro stabilised their economy. It is recovering.

It was the EU and the Euro that rescued these countries.

I don't think it is all about cost of travel and technology that concerns the younger generation who believe we should remain in the EU. For many it is more about the opportunity to be educated and work abroad. Young people are not as insular as many of the older generation. They do not have a fear of travelling the world alone and they treat people from other countries. I am proud of our younger generation that they are not influenced by racist views and bigotry if their elders.

So! RTC where do the EU get an 'awful' lot of the money million/billions to rescue these countries from? UK,

No it does not work like that.
The money is raised by the European Central Bank and they raise the money worldwide just as other banks do.
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The UK is committed to funding some humanitarian aid.

To clarify.
The EU organises this process. The ECB raises the money in Euros. And the country that receives the money has to pay for it, it does not get the money for free.

RTC you appear to know the money figures, any chance you could come up with amounts on 'Some Funding' ?

Roof Top, you must have been on something good when you wrote the post above. Where did you buy it? EBay?

It comes out of the worldwide commitment to humanitarian aid. Aid to Nepal, Burundi, Yemen, Syria etc.

The UK meets its UN target of 0.7% of our national income on overseas aid.
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If you want more detail go on line and have look.

I have occasionally sold things on e bay and just last week I bought some printer cartridges on e bay.

The younger generation that is so adamant that they wanted to remain in the EU is the cotton wool, snowflake generation that needs 'safe spaces' to flee to when someone tells them something they don't want to hear. They have been indoctrinated into believing that the EU is wonderful and that Great Britain is something to be ashamed of.
I have little doubt that if war was to break out, the younger generation would be queuing en-masse to register as conscientious objectors.
We don't have to be members of the EU for our citizens to be allowed to travel abroad, and those youngsters with the bottle to backpack usually opt for Australia. Europe is becoming a very dangerous place to live and to travel to.
But, I suppose the fools that wave REFUGEES WELCOME flags know what they are doing, don't they?

How exciting, I love printer cartridges!

Most of todays young don't even vote and are more interested in taking selfies and Facebook and basically most are just plain stupid !

Scandiman, I too hoped for a mature and adult debate between our politicians who, we are led to believe, are mature adults. Very sadly they demonstrated so adequately, that is not the case.

Many weeks ago on SS I suggested rather forcefully I'm afraid, we should dismiss all our politicians and peers, as well as at least the top third of the Civil Service. Today, they have proved my case for me!

Pam, although I'm generally reserved, even conservative (with a small c) in my views, the events of these last three months have shown this nation to be riven with factions, special interest groups and a raft disaffected, disenfranchised people. OK, someone will claim I'm a pessimist, but that is not so.

I cannot today see how a patched together Tory administration, a party which was, and still is, primarily for remaining in the EU, may govern this great nation whilst steering the ship away from political union with Europe. To envisage a pro-remain party carrying out the wishes of a pro-leave people is a contradiction.

Quite honestly, I'm despairing of the two party state we've had for so long. Rather belatedly I'm coming around to the view, we need a reversion to democratic governance. In my view that would mean a new party composed of people with no prior Westminster affiliations.

Here, I quote a man I much admire, Oliver Cromwell:

“You have been sat too long here for any good you have been doing. Depart, I say, and let us have done with you. In the name of God, go!.”

Irene, you're certainly not boring. Please do go on, I want to hear what you have to say.

Thank you Irene88. Think you're like button has been high jacked 🙂 can't click on it.

You have to be logged in to click on the like button.

Irene, need to hear what you have to say.

A couple of months ago Nigel Farage said that a 48% / 52% split would not be a true reflection of what the country wants. He went on to say said that he would campaign for a 2nd referendum if that was the result.

Now that we have a 52% / 48% split Farage has stepped back and said nothing more.

It is not as simple as getting on with life in a Brexit Britain. We are EU members for at least another two years and two months and maybe a lot longer.

Meanwhile, we have asked our elected government to negotiate with the 27 remaining countries our EU leaving the package.
And at the same time, we have asked our elected government to negotiate trade deals around the world to replace the trade the Leave campaign said we would lose by leaving the EU.

The only certainty we now have is that the next few years will be difficult and often disappointing and as always it will be the less well off and the younger generations that will feel the brunt of the 52% decision.

Roof Top, your prediction of the next few years is just that, a prediction. Only yesterday is certain because it has happened, and cannot be changed. We live with the fall out from yesterday, speaking of a better tomorrow. But that remains a prediction.

Now, if you are prophesying, as a product of inspiration or other insight, well ...

Sandman, I think you find MP's vote for their party. Once elected they don't represent us at all.

Sorry Scandiman, auto correct got your name wrong. I've manually corrected it. My apologies.

That is a very good point scandiman...I did not think of this the MPs are NOT representing their constituents as 52% voted out

Agreed, CB, what's done is done, now let's move on. How anyone would even contemplate another fourteen weeks of referendum campaigning I can't imagine.

Yes, we will struggle to find a strong leader - present contenders are not strong enough. But your main point, a vote against an ineffectual parliament is quite correct.

No sitting government does well in by elections, that's an historical fact. In a referendum, it would be, I think, much the same. How much of the leave vote was a protest vote? Your guess is as good as mine,

But I do suggest, it's a significant proportion.

I am not sure even he is that smart! The financial markets decide the exchange rates of the £ etc

Although I disagree with you on the vote, I would say, good on yer! Stick to your guns.

Yes I voted in and would still vote the same as seems to be a shambles at the moment. Cameron should have just been much firmer a few months ago on the issue of migration and note of this fiasco would be happening

Agreed on the migration issue, but the core of the referendum was about our sovereignty, not immigration. That is a side issue.

Not true Lionel as far as the great British public are concerned...

Wilf, I wholeheartedly agree. But none the less the referendum was about sovereignty and further political union. That immigration from the EU is a major part of that union is a secondary issue.

But I say again, I agree, for us, the great British public, it is a major issue and one which affected the vote.

I dont think the average Brit really cared about Sovereignty...they cannot see it on everyday basis...immigration was the real issue

The two are connected I'm afraid !

Good, although I disagree on your votes. Stick to your guns!

Hattie I can't answer your question as I have so long wanted out and voted that way. But may I suggest the Remain camp is very quiet because they had no answer to our questions. Just a blind adherence to Brussels.

Thank you Lionel, at least you replied.
I will say again, i watched 'Paxman in Brussels' on utube just by chance and i tell you, if the vote had turned out Remain i really, really would fear for our young people in the future they would have no say at all in the running of UK because there would be no longer a UK.

Hattie, the most important point you made above was there will no longer be a UK.

Hattie, I was twenty four when Wilson held a rather crooked referendum; old enough and wise enough to smell a rat a mile off. Now, having been a farm worker for twenty five years, often with cattle, I may say I can small the BS at an even greater distance!

In my time in farming I watched EU directives over rule generations of best practice, which had fed this nation well indeed; watched as we did things no rational farmer loving his land would do. The result is dead soil, drug addled livestock ... I could go on.

I have four step grand children, two of whom I raised from babies. Three of them are in line to go to university and I've caused a family row by saying we, us grand parents, won't help fund it. Why? They will emerge of three years with a piece of paper that's worth nothing.

I have a degree, in Geology, from London university. I paid for it, worked hard for it, but my heart was always with the land, with farms. But my degree is worth something. Hattie, we have young people working in our local Co-op with degrees. They slice cold meat, serve as check out people. I know them.

What is a degree in the EU worth? Nothing, I think.

Hattie, we have young people too. Four of them, all teen agers. I despair of their near futures.

Depends what you mean by short term, 2 years, 5 years, 10 years ? and for what gain exactly?

Putty, I sort of agree with you. I have yet to understand what we Brits actually gained from our EU membership. The industry I was most committed to, agriculture, has been utterly ruined by EU regulation. Don't get me on the state of our soils and farm animals.

Lionel--what is the state of our soil and animals...vv Eu or USA or Africa??

Wilf, I can't speak of Africa, and have only scant knowledge of the situation in North America.

In the UK, I've been farming in East Anglia, and several establishments in North Yorks, mainly the Vale of York and surrounding areas. I've also been in Eire in dairy, but that's another matter. Let's discuss what might be said to be a traditional farm, one so common just pre-War.

It would range between 40 acres and perhaps 200 at the biggest - the latter would have been farms owned by large estates. They would have several of them.

Always these were mixed farms; growing a range of crops suited to local conditions, as well as rearing cattle, chickens, pigs, ducks, geese and also some dairy. They were largely self sufficient, growing the animals needs on the farm. All the muck from those animals would be ploughed back into the fields in a cycle of what you take out you must replace. Now that's the key! In ancient speak it's called husbandry. One is a husband to the soil, cherishing, nurturing and feeding it and thus it feeds us. It feeds us what we need to grow and sustain healthy bodies.

During the War, and ever since, farms have ceased to be mixed farms. Bigger is better, or so the mantra goes. Thus they rely on artificial fertilisers for plant nutrients. NPK. Nitrogen, Potassium and Phosphorus, all the product of oil. But none of these have the trace elements the plant needs, or we need from the plant.

In constant use of artificial ,the soil is denuded of worms and micro organisms - they deliver the trace elements we need to live well. So, cutting it very short, farm produce no longer nourishes us.

Here in the back woods of Suffolk, in a very remote location, I have one twelfth of an acre food garden. That's a lot of land to dig with a spade and fork. Over these past fourteen years I've followed what I learned so many years ago - feed the soil. And I do.

Today the 1,100 hectare farm at the foot of my garden achieves two and three quarter tons of wheat per acre, using modern methods. On my first farm, a traditional farm, we in one year achieved three and three quarter tons per acre. That's a ton of wheat more using nothing of modern technology.

It used to be a cliche, the answer lies in the soil, but it is a truth. Feed the soil and you will live heartily. Neglect the soil, as our agri-businessmen are doing, and others will starve. If you're a city dweller, prepare to starve.

As for America, well, I do read Scientific American and it is the case, their yields per acre are worse than ours.

Summat's wrang .. and it ain't difficult to see what's wrong.

Not 'arff!